We Need More Activity: Codex Discussion and More

[Karack Blackstone]

The following are just personal musings, I have no inside information, and just want to see what others think of my said ideas.

 

So, Russ.

 

I am totally on-board with the idea that Russ has, for lack of a better term, an Arch Rune Priest style form; the issue is, what is going to be Russ' second form, and, how, if at all, might one change back and forth.

 

While I am sure there is going to be some concept of Russ having a wolf-ed out form, the if, and I hope, the how, he can be changed back and forth, would be great if done well.

 

Russ:

- Base statline (I can only guess what his stat's should be, nearly Guilliman, likely higher WS)

- Rune Priest abilities

- Some kind of buff, maybe the option to control or choose the Wulfen charts and die results

- I expect Russ can choose his form, per turn, as opposed to being a one way transformation

 

Wolf Russ:

- Werewolf Russ, just, he (I hope) can change back and forth, once per turn, without a die roll

- I would keep, yet diminish, his Rune Priest abilities

 

As far as weapons and wargear goes, new weapons, and above all, a new suit of armor, not sure of the origin of where it might come from, could be a very interesting concept, especially if Russ found his true purpose, and, his destined weapons and armor, among other items, in his hunts through the Eye.

 

I personally don't like the idea of giving in to the Wulfen, as for normal Wolves, that means they have lost control of themselves, and are now little more than barely sentient beasts. I would however love if the presence of Russ starts to restore control to the Wulfen, and those that are affected by their presence, per the above.

 

Just the option to choose the Wulfen chart and die result rolled could be amazing, even if just one chart and one choice for all Wolves units within the affected range of the Wulfen pack. The problem as always is that GW loves, per my previous comment, to push the Wolf side of the Space Wolves.

 

We need far, FAR, more Viking, especially now, to offset the constant push of too much Wolf, up until now.

[TiguriusX]

Our fluff includes the freaking leman russ battle tank named after our primarch

 

I always wondered why we dont have access to them. Other chapters have unique vehicles (baal predator..nephilim jet fighter to name a few)

[Triszin]

triszin is the only person in this thread who is like "more wulfen please"

as long as it looks rad *shrugs shoulders*

 

just not thundercats HOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[PeteySödes]

Our fluff includes the freaking leman russ battle tank named after our primarch

 

I always wondered why we dont have access to them. Other chapters have unique vehicles (baal predator..nephilim jet fighter to name a few)

 

We used to have the exterminator, its be cool and fluffy to get it back.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

It's a silly desire but o would like land speeder storms just because why have we not ever had them?

 

Getting Exterminators back would be fun. I'd invest in 1 or 2

[Karack Blackstone]

It's a silly desire but o would like land speeder storms just because why have we not ever had them?

 

Getting Exterminators back would be fun. I'd invest in 1 or 2

 

I can only imagine the fun our Wolf Scout packs could have if they were to get back OBEL and even get to do so riding in a Land Speeder Storm.

[The Saint Ragnar]

Wanted to discuss how we felt if we got some kind of Chapter Tactic like the Necron one just released. Space Wolves are trained well for close quarters fighting and not necessarily combat. Imagine if all our infantry and dreadnoughts weapons got +1 AP at half range. The combos could be brutal and that might give our Grey Hunters the push they need to feel more effective on the field. Combine the charge with True Grit and one squad could wreck mobs of GEQ. I think it could be really strong.

 

Thoughts and Cc?

[TiguriusX]

If we get AP tricks at close range with our bolters then my LF bolter squad is going to become epic.

 

5 points more than a GH squad with similar wargear but rerolling 1s

 

And the 40 dice from bikers with rapid fire SB? Oh my...

[Triszin]

If we get AP tricks at close range with our bolters then my LF bolter squad is going to become epic.

 

5 points more than a GH squad with similar wargear but rerolling 1s

 

And the 40 dice from bikers with rapid fire SB? Oh my...

huh.

 

Long fangs x5 heavy bolter

 

They're my best CQC squad.

 

people look dumbfounded.

 

PEW PEW PEW

[TiguriusX]

Its a trade off of (1) points and (2) -1BS to hit when coming on the board but yes I just purchased some HB bits to field test

[Jarl Caldersson]

Are SW supposed to be CC or Melee focused army? I always figured melee as we are depicted as much in so many novels and pictures.

[Karack Blackstone]

Are SW supposed to be CC or Melee focused army? I always figured melee as we are depicted as much in so many novels and pictures.

 

I think both, however, that is just a guess right now.

 

Think about it; the Wolves favor CC and Melee, and while one is not the other, they are pretty reliably related. A CC army needs to be able to Melee, and vice versa.

[TiguriusX]

I always thought of wolves as close quarters combatants

 

That would include guns and melee optimized for short but brutal work

 

 

If a situation called for hand to hand they were up to the task but had flexibility of using guns when appropriate

[Jarl Caldersson]

 

Are SW supposed to be CC or Melee focused army? I always figured melee as we are depicted as much in so many novels and pictures.

 

 

I think both, however, that is just a guess right now.

 

Think about it; the Wolves favor CC and Melee, and while one is not the other, they are pretty reliably related. A CC army needs to be able to Melee, and vice versa.

I wouldn't say a CC army needs to be experts, Sallies are CC (flamers+melta) but they aren't reknowned for melee. I feel like SW were more reknowned for melee but we're above average at CC. Long range we kind of drop off at (except somehow our long fangs are great on TT)

[Karhedron]

How about if we got our old counter-charge ability represented by always striking first in melee? 

[Triszin]

I think wolves were supposed to dominate at close to mid range.

 

Counter charge might literally be charging into a charge to get first hit, with removing incoming overwatch fire?

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

Are SW supposed to be CC or Melee focused army? I always figured melee as we are depicted as much in so many novels and pictures.

 

I think both, however, that is just a guess right now.

 

Think about it; the Wolves favor CC and Melee, and while one is not the other, they are pretty reliably related. A CC army needs to be able to Melee, and vice versa.

I wouldn't say a CC army needs to be experts, Sallies are CC (flamers+melta) but they aren't reknowned for melee. I feel like SW were more reknowned for melee but we're above average at CC. Long range we kind of drop off at (except somehow our long fangs are great on TT)

 

 

Indeed. I've always held we're better than average tacticals in melee, arguably in shooting too thanks to more special weapons close quarter weapons.  doesn't mean we're the best marine melee, but it means we are most damaging within the 12" range.

 

Oh boy, to get the -1 AP at 12" might give us the bolter power to continue justifying Grey Hunters and even Blood Claws. I hear one of the Necron Dynasties have this, as well as one of the Forgeworld doctrines.

 

Combined with the situational strategem of firing bolters in CC? At -1AP? Yes please! Gives us the Grey Hunter distinction back. Makes Intercessors even better without needing a Stalker bolt rifle to become AP-2. Still balance due to Strength 4.

 

Ah, speculation.

[Krakendoomcool]

If you compare Grey Hunters to Blood Angels Tactical Marines you end up thinking Space wolves are a Melee army. But if you compare Sky Claws and Jump Pack Wolf Guard with all those options Blood Angels have (death company, sanguinary Guard, honour Guard, assault marines, vanguard) you realise why Blood Angels are considered the Melee army. We are close range specialists. Although, more recently we have been given Thunderwolves and Wulfen for our Melee specialists.

 

I would absolutely love to see a Bulveye Abaddon face off box set. Having thirteenth company return would be pretty special. Russ too of course. For the Wolf time!

 

Curse of the Wulfen although short lived (8th edition making it obsolete) was for me the best we’ve had it. Being able to go to battle as different great companies with rules to back it up was brilliant. You could really theme your army and make use of every model in one great company or another. I think a lot of them got well used too. A load of people made really good Blackmanes, Iron Wolves and Firehowlers armies. That shows they were quite balanced and you could give it a good go with different great companies. If you were facing Tyrannids why not go Drakeslayers and have monster hunter on everybody?

 

So I would be looking for that again. Whether it’s stratagems or whatever form. Wouldn’t want a Russ led unification of rules, I really liked the diversity.

[Jarl Caldersson]

You are comparing their unique units (sang guard, and death company) to our standard troops and elite troops choices. I think you will see our wolf guard are able to hold their own against SM elite troops choices though and even beat them in some instances. Wolf Guard are just many of the SM elite/FA troops roles into one with less restrictions. Honour guard do get 2 wounds and leadership 9, which made sense when WG could take SS+melee+range weapon. Had weapon flexibility vs stat line.

 

So you need to take our unique units, TWC and Wulfen, to compare to BA unique units. You will see our unique units are mostly shield+melee weapon or full-on melee weapon (except TWC that can take 1 ranged weapon but is often considered not worth it), and are melee based.

 

 

As for Russ coming back, remember even in 30k there was 13 company and all had their unique features. So when he comes back we may see us rise to legion strength, but the 13 companies remain. Where this puts Wolf Spear, I don't know. Maybe cast aside forever, maybe the point of tension between RG and Russ. Russ wants to bring them home and says RG never should have ordered his sons, and RG refusing saying they are necessary to keep the eye at bay and he is the emperor regent.

[Krakendoomcool]

Good point. I think for a long time the Space Wolves had the appearance of a Melee army without it necessarily being the most effective way to use them. Now we’ve got the Thunderwolves and the Wulfen we are better at it. My point was a bit out of date.

 

I wonder what ‘chapter tactic’ we will get with the new codex. Will it be a form of counter attack again.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Actually when I first got into the army, i admit I was suckered into thinkig "close range" means "Beat face". Actually it isn't. In a sense, we're a bit like Salamanders prefering mid range fire fights, but we're definitely better than Salamanders when it comes to a fist fight..

[Jarl Caldersson]

Close combat is a means to a way. You can not sit in close combat without the other party also attempting the same thing. Either they retreat and you push forward to get into melee, you retreat and they push forward into melee, you both retreat into long range, or you/they push into melee.

 

Close combat (within 300m) is common in today's combat because that is where both parties want to be. Most militaries don't go around with melee weapons anymore. However in 40k this isn't the same, we need to look back to ancient and even ww1 tactics. Which close combat is used to get into your enemies face. Though I type this up I really don't want to get into this conversation.

 

SW excel in both melee and close combat, but out unique units and weapon loadout do us justice more in melee combat. Until we get something like Helfrost rounds, our uniqueness is melee based.

[Gherrick]

We don't need helfrost for everyone, but having it available for long fangs, land-based vehicles, and more HQs would be perfect. I love that all but the pistols have a dual weapon profile, and would most likely take it over plasma every time (assuming the cost was reasonable).

[Sete]

What i want from a SW release:

 

A new primaris box with bits so i can raid it for my Grey Talons.

 

Hopefully some broadswords with the kit.

 

Fluff on SW sucessors.

[Jarl Caldersson]

We don't need helfrost for everyone, but having it available for long fangs, land-based vehicles, and more HQs would be perfect. I love that all but the pistols have a dual weapon profile, and would most likely take it over plasma every time (assuming the cost was reasonable).

It was just an example that I made up to show we lack unique CC weapons or options, but rather our CC guys are actually equipped for melee.

 

What i want from a SW release:

A new primaris box with bits so i can raid it for my Grey Talons.

Hopefully some broadswords with the kit.

Fluff on SW sucessors.

I can only hope we get some melee and shield Primaris. The potential of dedicated melee Primaris is just delicious for chapters like BT/BA/SW.