CornishMike Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Has anyone worked out a decent brigade (without bringing in tzaangors)? Really want to field a full brigade without any beasts or daemons (apart from maybe a prince), but can’t get it under 2200 pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The really basic one sits at 1443 according to my battlescribe. Don't have the codex with me, so can't check. But 3 sorcerors, 6x10 cultists, 3 hellbrutes, 3 spawn (not demons or beasts imho), 3 vindicators. Not that I'd ever want to field a list like that, but that's the cheapest choices with the limits you've proposed. So it's doable within 2K, if you want to, but if it's fun or decent on the table is another thing. If you make it a bit more specific, it becomes easier to get closer to what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 That's barely worth calling a TSons army with just Cultists, Helbrutes, spawns and Vindicators lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Brigade WITHOUT tzaangors? tough sell. I have 20 cultists in my 1k sons, So a decent brigade for me looks like: Ahriman Exalted on foot Exalted on disc (sword) 10 cultists 10 cultists 10 tzaangors 10 tzaangors 5 rubrics 5 rubrics hellforged contemptor (duel kheres) Helbrute (missile/plasma) Tzaangor shaman spawn 3 enlightened with bows 3 enlightened with bows defiler (heavy bolter, havoc launcher) Maulerfiend Mutalith vortex beastSitting at 1835. so you have 165 to play with. If you "really" wanted to you could drop a tzaangor unit and stick 5 more rubrics in there. Admittedly it is very hard to get us to have a good 2000 point brigade, I think us getting a solid 9 command points with 2 battallions is far far easier. You lose 3 command points but you gain far more ability to adjust. The list above has enough variety and enough mixes of units to be "reasonably" effective, but as with all brigades its MSU city in here lol. My big inclination is to drop rubrics entirely for this list (for those of you that know me; thats unusual as my rubrics rule on the table) and do 20 cultists, and 40 tzaangors, filling out your troops and then start dumping the extra points into the HQ slot. all cultists is fine, but I find mixing Tzaangors/rubrics/cultists will mathmatically and CP wise (as well as competetive...) will be one of the best options, splashing each will have its merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 That's barely worth calling a TSons army with just Cultists, Helbrutes, spawns and Vindicators lol Didn't say I'd field it, did I? ;) To me it's not really a TS army either, but he asked for a non-beast, non-tzaangor and non-daemon brigade at 2k. If I were to just make a brigade, mine would be quite a lot closer to what Sonoftherubric21 suggested though with a few tweaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 That's barely worth calling a TSons army with just Cultists, Helbrutes, spawns and Vindicators lol Didn't say I'd field it, did I? Neither did I, did I? ;) sneakybamsen 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) Brigade WITHOUT tzaangors? tough sell. I have 20 cultists in my 1k sons, So a decent brigade for me looks like: Ahriman Exalted on foot Exalted on disc (sword) 10 cultists 10 cultists 10 tzaangors 10 tzaangors 5 rubrics 5 rubrics hellforged contemptor (duel kheres) Helbrute (missile/plasma) Tzaangor shaman spawn 3 enlightened with bows 3 enlightened with bows defiler (heavy bolter, havoc launcher) Maulerfiend Mutalith vortex beast Sitting at 1835. so you have 165 to play with. If you "really" wanted to you could drop a tzaangor unit and stick 5 more rubrics in there. Admittedly it is very hard to get us to have a good 2000 point brigade, I think us getting a solid 9 command points with 2 battallions is far far easier. You lose 3 command points but you gain far more ability to adjust. The list above has enough variety and enough mixes of units to be "reasonably" effective, but as with all brigades its MSU city in here lol. My big inclination is to drop rubrics entirely for this list (for those of you that know me; thats unusual as my rubrics rule on the table) and do 20 cultists, and 40 tzaangors, filling out your troops and then start dumping the extra points into the HQ slot. all cultists is fine, but I find mixing Tzaangors/rubrics/cultists will mathmatically and CP wise (as well as competetive...) will be one of the best options, splashing each will have its merits. Brigade without Tzaangors, Daemons, or Beasts? Renegades and Heretics have you covered. Let the SPAM BEGIN!!! HQ 3 Renegade Commanders (Covenant of Tzeentch)-75 Elite 3 Command Squads (4 Man each)-72 Troops 10 Militia (Mortar)-45 10 Militia (Mortar)-45 10 Militia (Mortar)-45 10 Militia (Mortar)-45 10 Militia (Mortar)-45 10 Militia (Mortar)-45 Fast Attack 1 Scout Sentinel (Multi-Laser)-45 1 Scout Sentinel (Multi-Laser)-45 1 Scout Sentinel (Multi-Laser)-45 Heavy Support Renegade Heavy Weapon Squad (3 Teams-Mortars)-24 Renegade Heavy Weapon Squad (3 Teams-Mortars)-24 Renegade Heavy Weapon Squad (3 Teams-Mortars)-24 Congratulations!!! You are now the proud owner of 15 Mortars (all the rage these days), 3 Scout Sentinels for board control and pushback, and a whole TON of disposable, WS/BS 5+ morons. All for the low, low price of 624 points, leaving you 1376 for ACTUAL members of the 15th Legion.....and yet more command points. That's frankly quite frightening given the effectiveness of even BS 5+ mortar spam and the fact that a command point-hungry army like TS now no longer has that worry in this case. The board control and pushback capability are also nasty. With that 1376, you can get Ahriman, an Exalted, a Terminator Sorcerer, 10 Scarab Occult, 10 Rubricae, 2 ML/Twin Heavy Bolter Helbrutes, and a bit left over for some extra wargear. You can also forget the brutes and just keep spamming characters or add more dust bunnies. Or you could spiff up the Renegades a bit....maybe throw in some Malefic Lords or Covens for theme instead of one or two of the Commanders or replace some of the Command Squads with Sniper Marauders. With the spend I just suggested, you'll end up with 13 command points. Relics and Stratagems Ahoy!!! EDIT: You could also put lascannons in those BS 3+ Command Squads if you wanted and then maybe drop one for an Enforcer so your idiots don't run. Just. As. Planned. :) Edited February 9, 2018 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Do that again; but this time only from the THOUSAND SONS CODEX :p I dont play the Thousand sons codex for chaos guard lol. Kite Senet 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Amazing outlay of Tzeentchian goodness. My concern is that you can see issue of CP distribution on Elite armies when running mono-faction. Grey Knight, PA, etc. I really think it should be connected to HQ's directly as they're the only consistent factor across armies. More HQ's, more CP. Max 3 detatchment, 12 CP limit in matched play. CP per detatchment is decided by type of detatchment and amount of HQ's. All detatchments gain CP equal to the minimum HQ requirement for the detatchment multiplied by X plus 2 per any additional HQ beyond this. X = 3 for battle-forged mono-faction armies, 2 for soups or mixed factions. Seems pretty fair. People already take whatever is best and then a minimum of guard/renegade/daemons for CP so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 @greaterchicken: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Do that again; but this time only from the THOUSAND SONS CODEX :p I dont play the Thousand sons codex for chaos guard lol. Correct but do you want hell command points or pure thousand sons? As far as Chaos faction keyword that is a solid way to get major CP and with the helm we will be able to regenerate them as well. I think it is a solid way. Not a "Thousand Sons" army but that's not the fous of that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Do that again; but this time only from the THOUSAND SONS CODEX I dont play the Thousand sons codex for chaos guard lol. You already covered Cultist spam, so I had to go further (and the OP doesn't play Thousand Sons for Tzaangors, Spawn, and Mutaliths, apparently). :) BTW: 1300 points is pretty much an actual army....small one, but you can still have a couple HQ's, a couple Elites, and some Rubricae. Go light on Terminators and you can have an entire Battalion. It honestly reminds me of those entire planets that worship Ahriman as a god of fire and hidden knowledge. Just get some old metal Ahri figs and paint them up like golden statues and use those on little arks/palanquins instead of Chaos Sigils....then keep the whole TSons detatchment in the Webway or Teleportarium and have him show up to "answer prayers." Kinda like those poor sods who finally solved that ancient equation and unwittingly opened a warp gate into their hidden library so he could walk in and plunder it. :) Sonoftherubric21 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Ah okay I admit that I forgot about the OP requirement. Hella command points doesnt innately win ya a game though...though perhaps a million BS/WS 5+ bodies might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreaterChickenofTzeentch Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Ah okay I admit that I forgot about the OP requirement. Hella command points doesnt innately win ya a game though...though perhaps a million BS/WS 5+ bodies might And mortar spam and DS denial and three beefy characters, plus Scarabs, Rubrics, and/or Helbrutes. The actual TS have to be the hammer to the renegade anvil or it will struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornishMike Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 Apologies for the radio silence, life gets on the way sometimes... To be more specific, am wanting mostly rubrics, with a couple of cultist unit for points efficiency... SOT and hellbrute for elite choices I would prefer no vindicators as I find them lacklustre... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominikB Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Amazing outlay of Tzeentchian goodness. My concern is that you can see issue of CP distribution on Elite armies when running mono-faction. Grey Knight, PA, etc. I really think it should be connected to HQ's directly as they're the only consistent factor across armies. More HQ's, more CP. Max 3 detatchment, 12 CP limit in matched play. CP per detatchment is decided by type of detatchment and amount of HQ's. All detatchments gain CP equal to the minimum HQ requirement for the detatchment multiplied by X plus 2 per any additional HQ beyond this. X = 3 for battle-forged mono-faction armies, 2 for soups or mixed factions. Seems pretty fair. People already take whatever is best and then a minimum of guard/renegade/daemons for CP so why not? I can’t help but agree that CP distribution is a problem. Especially the high CP lists with access to options to increase them even further. I like the system, 2 matching keywords (or specified single one, I.e catachan or 1ksons) gives a certain bonus as you’ve suggested based off HQs. This would still allow cheap CP through guard which could be their thing. Otherwise maybe rethinking the big detachments to be more around points (or far I say power points) that just raw unit counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozo69pd Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I think my brigade would do pretty well which consists of: Ahriman (not WL) 2x flying claw DP's wielding dark matter and crystal helm 5x cultists (try to include 1 big blob) 9 man rubric unit (or bigger) that is going to deep strike with Ahriman 3x spawn 3x helbrute 3x mutalith vortex beast that are going to buff the cultists marching forward (the buffs stack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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