Will Grey Knights be fixed by the March FAQ?

[Ichar]

Hopefully one part of the finding is the distinct lack of GK presence in tournaments...

[Soder]

Ya someone had said in FB comments that only 3 GK detachments were used in the entire tournament. Detachments, not armies. And I’d definately wager that they were supreme command detachments with 3 GMNDK.

[Capt. Mytre]

Ya someone had said in FB comments that only 3 GK detachments were used in the entire tournament. Detachments, not armies. And I’d definately wager that they were supreme command detachments with 3 GMNDK.

 

Strikes are decent as well, could easily see a 2x GMNDK and 3x Strikes, I've seen similar tournament lists before. Also allows more power usage. However, the top 16 didn't include any GK (lots of Tyranids though).

[Panzer]

They’re calling it the “Spring” update now lol.

They called it that before a few times already. Not really something new.

[Danarc]

Ya someone had said in FB comments that only 3 GK detachments were used in the entire tournament. Detachments, not armies. And I’d definately wager that they were supreme command detachments with 3 GMNDK.

I hope that the 3 detachments used weren't only 9 GMDK or we could see a nerf. Again. 

 

I'm not optimistic for the faq, I hope I'm wrong. :(

[Ichar]

Hope is the first step on the path to disappointment...

 

-Grey Knight player motto

[Ninjoe42]

Sooo should I bring guac to this pity party?

[Waking Dreamer]

Eh, faqs I'd say is mainly about clearing up confusing rules such as the possible changes to the core smite rules.

 

For a moment earlier in the thread I thought we were going to have CA like changes this month (hence the discussion about unit and weapon profile improvements etc.), though have GW establish such things also occur in faqs now for 8E as well?

 

So keep that in mind, unless there is precedent of profile changes for individual unit and weapon profiles for each and every army during a a faq, I'm thinking it's GW replying yes/no to a handful of questions, and definitely a clarification of how the new smite works going forward.

[Gentlemanloser]

The only reason to delay the faq is to nerf flyrants somehow.

[Holier Than Thou]

Eh, faqs I'd say is mainly about clearing up confusing rules such as the possible changes to the core smite rules.

For a moment earlier in the thread I thought we were going to have CA like changes this month (hence the discussion about unit and weapon profile improvements etc.), though have GW establish such things also occur in faqs now for 8E as well?

So keep that in mind, unless there is precedent of profile changes for individual unit and weapon profiles for each and every army during a a faq, I'm thinking it's GW replying yes/no to a handful of questions, and definitely a clarification of how the new smite works going forward.

Games Workshop themselves said the two big FAQs would be to address over and under performing units.

[Ichar]

What Holier said. Of course, one has to wonder if they know enough about GK performance since they really haven’t been represented in any of the major tournaments. And that is what really matters. Reminds me of online games where the games are balanced for the elite 5 percent and everyone else can bugger off.

[Corvus Fortis]

And that is why our feedback especially important. There is no other way to let GW know about the problems. The FAQ will show if they listen. And if they don't... well, there is no hope for GK in this edition. 

[TheCastigator]

FWIW, the podcast circuit is saying the faq is as much about elevating units as it is nerfing dumb crap, like Flyrant spam. I remain hopeful. I also doubt the designers want entire factions to be ignored or boiled down to 1 or 2 units.

[Waking Dreamer]

Flyrant is probably getting 1 per detachment.

[Capt. Mytre]

What Holier said. Of course, one has to wonder if they know enough about GK performance since they really haven’t been represented in any of the major tournaments. And that is what really matters. Reminds me of online games where the games are balanced for the elite 5 percent and everyone else can bugger off.

 

The fact GK wwren't really present should be reason enough to look and find the massive balance issues within the codex. No faith in them understanding this though.

 

Flyrant is probably getting 1 per detachment.

 

This is what I think GW will do as well, but it's such a stupid solution. People should be able to field 2 or 3 Flyrants in a detachment, as long as they also have all the other detachment requirements, with the Flyrants being nerfed a bit so that other options in the HQ slot are viable. The Supreme Command Detachment basically avoided the cost of other models so you could just bring more Flyrants.

 

What the change should be is remove the Supreme Command Detachment, and then if you want to keep those fluffy "Librarian Conclave" or other HQ formations, you give those specific units a rule such as "If a single detachment has 2 of X HQ unit, a further X may be taken as Elite choices - other units are not allowed in this detachment", which would allow them to be fielded as a Vanguard Detachment, but you couldn't spam problem units any more because they would be hand-picked.

 

The only reason I think we should have a 1 GMNDK limit per detachment is so that there's only 8 GMNDK's possible fluff wise and the GMNDK overshadows the NDK by a ton to the point of irrelevancy. Alongside this change, NDK's would be buffed and become viable options instead of defaulting to the GMNDK.

[Danarc]

Nope nids won...With a total of 7 Hive Tyrants, 4 Mawlocs, 8 Mucolid Spores and 9 bases of Rippers Matt Root was able to take the crown.

 

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/03/40k-the-unbeatable-list-adepticon-2018.html

Actually in the official website it is confirmed that the overall champion in 40k is a BA with IG detachment

https://www.adepticon.org/results/

 

and here you can find the top 16 lists

https://spikeybits.com/2018/03/40k-adepticon-championship-top-16-lists-revealed.html

Nevertheless the first place has been disqualified for having used a BA exclusive relic (he used A successor chapter)

 

It is possible to see that in the first 16 places there is only one GK detachment, obviously supreme command, with two GMDK and voldus. There are also two supreme command detachments with a total of 7 Shield captain on bike.

 

If the nerf relating to flyrant and shield captain on bike will affect also GMDK, I hope that it will be only the T'AU commander version. A deeper nerf for our GMDK (that I keep losing easy) will hard hit us with a coup of grace.

[SyNidus]

There's been a lot of whinging in this particular subforum, which is not entirely unfounded. But so much hot air is blown, but not even in the general direction of the metaphorical hot air balloon that we're trying to raise.

 

So i'm throwing down the gauntlet.

 

Time to do something about it! Write to GW at 40kfaq@gwplc.com and let them know what you think our codex needs, BUT put the title of your email as follows: "URGENT Grey Knights FAQ/Erratas Needed"

 

The idea is that if we fill their inbox with enough of the same email titles they will be more likely to notice our emails over the stream of other emails they must surely receive and at least acknowledge there's a problem with our codex.

 

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Firstly,

 

Thank you for the hard work you fine folks have been putting in. The speed at which you're putting out new, interesting and flavourful rules makes this edition of 40k perhaps the best edition yet.

 

A lot of tactics and strategy has been brought back into the game, where the previous edition was all about building unbeatable units to wipe the enemy with. Which is where Grey Knights come in.

 

In case you might have missed it, for an army which already had a codex released, the Grey Knights were distinctly absent from Adepticon and other high level competitive events. This is with the exception of supreme command detachments filled with 3-5 Grandmaster in Nemesis Dreadknight.

 

Unfortunately, in matched play, the GK have a number of things going against it.

 

- It's distinct lack of mobility because only one units gets to use Gate of Infinity per turn. This coupled with the fact that most transports die very quickly to common predators like Dark Reapers, etc... It means our only means of mobility is deepstriking.

 

This is not ideal, especially in an edition where "screening" units and deepstrike defences are the norm.

 

- All the special weapons are inefficient because the Heavy weapons penalty means that they put out less damage/point output than the basic storm bolter.

- Some inefficient stratagems. Psychic Onslaught and Psybolt Ammunition could be reduced to 1 point, they're good, but certainly not game breaking.

 

- For a psychically powerful army, we really lack powerful psychic abilities. The matched play rules means that only one of our units gets to use Hammerhand (when this should really be something every Grey Knight can use, regardless), only one unit can use Gate of Infinity. Even our smite is really lacklustre. We understand that balance is an important thing, but this falls short when you consider the fact that we'd have a far more powerful psychic suite if we were to take a Supreme detachment of 5 Astra Militarum Primaris Psykers. This problem is exacerbated by the Smite beta rules (which i think is actually a great solution to smite spam, kudos!)

 

But weakness is not really what drove me to leave this army. It's boring.

 

All the above mentioned factors lead to a single result: Grey Knights have only one strategy, namely:-

 

Deepstrike and pray we make the 9" charge.

 

Doing that every single game is boring. Give us back our mobility (something which we had lots of back in 7th Edition). Give us some actual teeth and shooting and psychic phases.

 

Look, i'm not asking that GK be made the most overpowered army in the game. I just wished they were actually playable. The Custodes are a great example of an Elite (low model count army) that is flavourful, interesting and powerful, while remaining balanced.

 

I know we've had our codex already. I know that this is just for the FAQ/Errata and there's only so much you can do. But really, we need the help.

 

Again, I just want to express how much i appreciate your efforts these past months. Keep up the good work!

 

Thank you

 

Yours Truly,

A Humble Justicar

 

I've cast the first stone. If ye be knights of Titan, i challenge you to do the same!

[Capt. Mytre]

It's a little late. They won't delay the FAQ any further for such a minor army that they have shown they don't care about.

 

That said, I've sent my email months ago. May as well send a few more, but don't expect anything from it.

[SyNidus]

It's a little late. They won't delay the FAQ any further for such a minor army that they have shown they don't care about.

See, that kind of negativity right there is unnecessary, unhelpful, uninformative and unconstructive. It literally adds nothing and actually subtracts from the value of the overall post. We play GK, our expectations are low enough.

 

That said, I've sent my email months ago. May as well send a few more, but don't expect anything from it.

That being said, definitely doesn't hurt to send more emails. Thank you for your contribution. Even if we don't get into the FAQ this time, there's nothing stopping them from fixing the GK in their own time off schedule. The point is we need more of a concerted effort to make an impact.

[Capt. Mytre]

 

It's a little late. They won't delay the FAQ any further for such a minor army that they have shown they don't care about.

See, that kind of negativity right there is unnecessary, unhelpful, uninformative and unconstructive. It literally adds nothing and actually subtracts from the value of the overall post. We play GK, our expectations are low enough.

 

That said, I've sent my email months ago. May as well send a few more, but don't expect anything from it.

That being said, definitely doesn't hurt to send more emails. Thank you for your contribution. Even if we don't get into the FAQ this time, there's nothing stopping them from fixing the GK in their own time off schedule. The point is we need more of a concerted effort to make an impact.

 

 

Whatever dude, all evidence thus far shows otherwise to how you think.

 

Time will tell.

[Holier Than Thou]

There's been a lot of whinging in this particular subforum, which is not entirely unfounded. But so much hot air is blown, but not even in the general direction of the metaphorical hot air balloon that we're trying to raise.

So i'm throwing down the gauntlet.

Time to do something about it! Write to GW at 40kfaq@gwplc.com and let them know what you think our codex needs, BUT put the title of your email as follows: "URGENT Grey Knights FAQ/Erratas Needed"

The idea is that if we fill their inbox with enough of the same email titles they will be more likely to notice our emails over the stream of other emails they must surely receive and at least acknowledge there's a problem with our codex.

Dear Sirs,

Firstly,

Thank you for the hard work you fine folks have been putting in. The speed at which you're putting out new, interesting and flavourful rules makes this edition of 40k perhaps the best edition yet.

A lot of tactics and strategy has been brought back into the game, where the previous edition was all about building unbeatable units to wipe the enemy with. Which is where Grey Knights come in.

In case you might have missed it, for an army which already had a codex released, the Grey Knights were distinctly absent from Adepticon and other high level competitive events. This is with the exception of supreme command detachments filled with 3-5 Grandmaster in Nemesis Dreadknight.

Unfortunately, in matched play, the GK have a number of things going against it.

- It's distinct lack of mobility because only one units gets to use Gate of Infinity per turn. This coupled with the fact that most transports die very quickly to common predators like Dark Reapers, etc... It means our only means of mobility is deepstriking.

This is not ideal, especially in an edition where "screening" units and deepstrike defences are the norm.

- All the special weapons are inefficient because the Heavy weapons penalty means that they put out less damage/point output than the basic storm bolter.

- Some inefficient stratagems. Psychic Onslaught and Psybolt Ammunition could be reduced to 1 point, they're good, but certainly not game breaking.

- For a psychically powerful army, we really lack powerful psychic abilities. The matched play rules means that only one of our units gets to use Hammerhand (when this should really be something every Grey Knight can use, regardless), only one unit can use Gate of Infinity. Even our smite is really lacklustre. We understand that balance is an important thing, but this falls short when you consider the fact that we'd have a far more powerful psychic suite if we were to take a Supreme detachment of 5 Astra Militarum Primaris Psykers. This problem is exacerbated by the Smite beta rules (which i think is actually a great solution to smite spam, kudos!)

But weakness is not really what drove me to leave this army. It's boring.

All the above mentioned factors lead to a single result: Grey Knights have only one strategy, namely:-

Deepstrike and pray we make the 9" charge.

Doing that every single game is boring. Give us back our mobility (something which we had lots of back in 7th Edition). Give us some actual teeth and shooting and psychic phases.

Look, i'm not asking that GK be made the most overpowered army in the game. I just wished they were actually playable. The Custodes are a great example of an Elite (low model count army) that is flavourful, interesting and powerful, while remaining balanced.

I know we've had our codex already. I know that this is just for the FAQ/Errata and there's only so much you can do. But really, we need the help.

Again, I just want to express how much i appreciate your efforts these past months. Keep up the good work!

Thank you

Yours Truly,

A Humble Justicar

I've cast the first stone. If ye be knights of Titan, i challenge you to do the same!

Did you read any of the threads in this sub-forum before you came in throwing down pointless gauntlets?

 

We HAVE contacted GW, we HAVE provided feedback, we HAVE been completely ignored each time.

 

As has been said (many, many times), we have sent feedback after the Codex was released, in the lead up to Chapter Approved, and we have sent feedback in advance of the big March (April, May, whenever) FAQ. We were ignored after the Codex was released, we were ignored again in Chapter Approved, so forgive us for being under the impression we are most likely going to be ignored again.

 

You have certainly not cast the first stone, your stone is lying on a pile of pebbles we have all thrown that Games Workshop are trying to sweep under the carpet.

[Holier Than Thou]

Double post.

[Helycon]

When exactly was the mail sent again? I'm pretty sure it was either close to, or after CA was released. Since it's in print, the changes wouldn't have made it there. The feedback sent should then be used for this FAQ. 

 

I agree with SyNidus simply because every single thread seems to surn into a whinefest, simply scaring potential GK brothers away, when there is no real need. To YOU, the army may very well be unusable, simply due to playing incredibly competitively, but to others, the army represents something more. If they're playing in a less competitive scene, GK do fine. There are still people that win games regularly, albeit not at WAAC levels. Is it a challenging army to play? Sure! Your anti tank is on the bigger fire magnets or in CC. Will you lose games? Sure? Is it less fun? If so, you're playing Warhammer for all the wrong reasons. 

 

I think GK won't be overlooked. GW isn't stupid. They may not communicate everything they do, but I'm sure GK will get some changes. Probably not all of those on the wishlists, but they will be tuned slowly. Overtuning is also a bad thing ;)

[Ninjoe42]

Seriously, the pity party needs to end. People are acting like entitled brats. Send your feedback and be patient, or just man up and deal with how things are.

[Corvus Fortis]

I have a feeling that every thread turns into a whine-feast because there is nothing more to tell about GK. We have only one working strategy. Whenever I try something else, it either fails completely or feels underwhelming. When I try something like purifiers or terminators, I only get assured again that they don't pay off. We either deepstrkie and charge or sit in deployment zone and wait enemy to come and counterattack (I even find the latter more fun). Today I will field to packs of terminators, crowe and stern and I will be surprised if they do something significant. Our codex may be weak, but as it's been said, it was boring. We have too little interesting rules or combinations. Since August we talked about everything we could. And every subsequent errata only denied us something rather than giving something new. For fun games you can play with any unit (except purifiers). In competitive games everything is straightforward.