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Salamander 2000 point

salamanders

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#1
strawberry fist

strawberry fist

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Looking to make a competitive list and off to Forgeworld to get missing pieces. 

Alternatively I could swap the sternguard out for a company ancient and another rapier battery with quad bolter.

Please pick apart and help me improve this list thanks smile.png

Force split up into a batalian and spearhead 

HQ 

Captain - Master-crafted boltgun, Power sword, The Burning Blade

Librarian - Force stave

Lieutenants 
. Lieutenant: Master-crafted boltgun, Power sword

Techmarine - Boltgun, Power axe, Servo-arm

Troops 
Tactical Squad 
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad 
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad 
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Elites 

Sternguard Veteran Squad 
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Special issue boltgun

Heavy Support 

Predator - Predator autocannon, Two Lascannons

Predator -Predator autocannon, Two Lascannons

Dedicated Transport 

Razorback -Twin assault cannon

Razorback - Twin assault cannon

Razorback -Twin assault cannon

Elites 

Relic Sicaran Battle Tank - Heavy bolter, 2 lascannons 

Heavy Support 

Rapier Carrier - 2x Space Marine Gunner
. Rapier Carrier: Quad heavy bolter

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought -2x Heavy flamer
. Leviathan melee weapon with meltagun: Leviathan siege drill, Meltagun
. Storm cannon array

115 PL, 2006pts



#2
Saxxon the Dragoon

Saxxon the Dragoon

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  • Location:Gothic Sector, Cyclops Cluster, Planet Endiness.
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I like for the most part what you got going on, but I think the leviathan dread is kind of on his own  for this list. I would recommend going with a Relic Contemptor instead (saving yourself a few points) with dual melee and a cyclone launcher. I would also recommend giving your captain or librarian a jump pack. One thing you are really missing is someone or some unit that can go for objectives. Most of your army is a static gun line. Your transports are definitely going to get shot out from under you. And I can tell you are bringing the rapier so you can squeak in the Relic Leviathan, but you would probably be better off taking a devastator team with las/plasma cannons.

 

I would recommend taking some land speeders or an assault squad, but with how you have your army set up I dont think you have the space without having to reconfigure your whole list. I dont think its a bad list, and there is a LOT of dakka going out. But you have very little mobility and pretty much nothing that you can deep strike into your enemy's deployment zone to put pressure on them.


Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#3
strawberry fist

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I've tried running it a few times and what I've noticed is if i go first I generally win and if I go second i loose.

I've played Objective games and struggles to claim them. My aim has been to move the razorback up to the objective and unloads the marines but it hasn't worked.

I've tried re-jiging it and thinking of adding in and culexes assasin (anti psyker one).

Trying to make a fluffy Death Guard list inspired by Garro in Flight of the Eisenstein black library book and as the salamanders re-roll ability can represent the care that Death Guard took in their weapons I thought it was as close to a fluffy chapter tactics as possible.

#4
Kaiser Rude

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What do you do with the captain and lieutenant?
If they are sitting back with the gunline you can shave some points off of them.
You need another elites choice that is not a relic so you can take the relic sicaran legally.
Instead of the techmarine as an hq I’d try to fit a Thunderfire Cannon in your list. The techmarine gunner can repair your predators and still shoot the cannon. Also the stratagem for the Thunderfire Cannon is amazing.

#5
strawberry fist

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The captain and lietenant stay back and are there's to buff the gun line and counter attack against threats. The Sicaran is already legal due to the sternguard

Currently in process of making an improved list

#6
strawberry fist

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How's this for an improvement:

Battalion
Captain - master crafted bolter, power sword
Librarian - force sword and bolter

Scouts - bolters
Tactical - combi plasma, plasma gun
Tactical - combi plasma, plasma gun
Tactical - combi plasma, plasma gun

Predator - autocannon and lascannon sponsons
Predator - autocannon and lascannon sponsons
Contemptor Mortis - kheres X2

Vanguard -
Eisenhorn with daemon thing

Vindicare assassin
Culexus asssin
Sicaran

Thinderfire cannon

Lookin at this I could swap the scouts for another techmarine or cheap HQ but then I loose an objective secured unit and deep strike denial unit.

What do you think?

#7
Saxxon the Dragoon

Saxxon the Dragoon

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I assume you are combat squading your tacticals to deny deepstrike territory, but if you are really hurting for capturing objectives, then you shouldnt need scouts to do that. While assassins aren't bad, they wont help your list out.

 

I would say drop the scouts (since the only thing good for scouts is sniper rifles and you arent taking them for that, and you already have 3 full tac squads). Then drop the Culexus assassin and take a vanguard squad. Honestly I dont recommend taking eisenhorn, but you have your reasons for filling this list out this way, so trying to maintain that.

 

If your problem is taking objectives, taking single unit models isnt going to help. The Thunderfire Cannon isnt bad, especially if you plan on using the strategem with it, bit you might just be better off taking a cheap assault squad instead. That way you have both a vanguard and assault squad to move and cap objectives and tie up enemy units in combat. You already have so much shooting in your army with 3 tanks that its difficult to justify taking another static gun unit to do more shooting. If you absolutely need all the shooting, you might want to consider a cyclone launcher for your contemptor, which might serve you better.


Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#8
strawberry fist

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If I were to drop the scouts and thunderfire that would make 176 points. Which could be 2 more combat squads with a missile launcher each to hold objectives in my lines.

The tacticals are already 5 man squads, sorry should of put that :/

I'm not sure if taking assault marines would work as this is the list I normally run up against and keep loosing.

Guilliman
Primaris librarian
Telion
Intercessor X5 man
Intercessor X5 man
Scout snipers
Hellblasters X5 man rapid fire gun
Sgt chronus in pred with auto and lascannon
Thunderfire cannon
Whirlwind

Sometimes he runs terminators as well but that's what he mainly runs.

I thought vindicare can target guilliman combat squads advance with eisenhorn inside to testify / dominate their characters. My tanks to blow up his tanks and thunder fire to take care of marines in open, but just want to make a good competitive list that could take on any army and thrash this one.

Edited by strawberry fist, 25 February 2018 - 09:49 AM.


#9
Saxxon the Dragoon

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If I were to drop the scouts and thunderfire that would make 176 points. Which could be 2 more combat squads with a missile launcher each to hold objectives in my lines.

The tacticals are already 5 man squads, sorry should of put that :/

I'm not sure if taking assault marines would work as this is the list I normally run up against and keep loosing.

Guilliman
Primaris librarian
Telion
Intercessor X5 man
Intercessor X5 man
Scout snipers
Hellblasters X5 man rapid fire gun
Sgt chronus in pred with auto and lascannon
Thunderfire cannon
Whirlwind

Sometimes he runs terminators as well but that's what he mainly runs.

I thought vindicare can target guilliman combat squads advance with eisenhorn inside to testify / dominate their characters. My tanks to blow up his tanks and thunder fire to take care of marines in open, but just want to make a good competitive list that could take on any army and thrash this one.

I can see why you have trouble against that list, girlyman especially.

 

I would take a scout squad with all sniper rifles, vindicare and spend all game doing nothing but shooting guillimen.

You already have a librarian so bringing a culexus just to go after the enemy librarian is overkill.

As for using eisenhorn, i dont know his special abilities well enough, but trying to get him in close to use his powers is going to be difficult especially with guillimen, and thunderfire and whirlwind.

 

You are trying to split up your units to get an extra CP, you might just want to fold everything back into the battalion. Maybe a devastator squad with 2 heavy bolters and 2 lascannons might help.

 

Trying to nearly mirror his list isnt going to work, partly because ultramarines get all the best things (all the special characters, ALL OF THEM) but guillimen's ability to just recover CP is going to keep you at a disadvantage. and primaris having 2 wounds, and better bolters is going to make it difficult to fight in fair terms. Try to nuke down girlyman and chronus as fast as you can, and just try to whittle down the primaris as best you can.


Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#10
strawberry fist

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Unfortunately I'm not mimicking his list, I was using a slightly different list against his Eldar and he used mine as a frame to build his with some tweeks to make it ultramarine :/

Gone back to basics and got to 1799 points:

Captain - power sword and master crated boltgun
Librarian - force sword, boltgun
Eisenhorn - daemonhost

Scout sniper (5 man)
Tactical (5 man) plasma gun combi plasma
Tactical (5 man) plasma gun combi plasma
Tactical (5 man) plasma gun combi plasma

Predator autocannon lascannons
Predator autocannon lascannons
Thunderfire cannon

Razorback assault cannon
Razorback assault cannon
Razorback assault cannon

Vindicare assassin
Sicaran - accelerator cannon, lascannon

what can i add to this/ take out to make this competitive, all comer and anti this ultramarine list?

#11
Saxxon the Dragoon

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Now that we have all the info to work with and gave us the range to work with, we can go from there.

 

So pretty much we have 200 points to play with.

Vanguard vets x5 = 80

relic blade = 21

storm shield x3 = 15

powersword x2 = 8

total = 124

 

Chapter Ancient = 72

powersword = 4

total = 76

 

That puts you at 200 points, giving you a tough to kill melee unit that moves 12" and can deepstrike with 3++ saves. And the Chapter Ancient gives +1 to Ld and allows your guys to shoot one of their weapons or make a single attack on a 4+ when they die if their unit is within 6" of the banner. Not only does this give you enough elites to make a the bonus detachment for +1 CP, but lets you possibly get an extra shot/attack out of your troops when they die.

 

You could downgrade the ancient to a company ancient and put 2 more storm shields into the vanguard squad, but its up to you.

 

You could also take 2 5-man intercessor squads (1 aux grenade launcher and 5 auto-bolt rifles is just 96 points each) or 5 man hellblaster squad (90 pts plus 85 for 5 heavy incinerators gives you 36" S8,-4 AP, D1/D2 if supercharged), 2 wounds a pop and variable weapon loadout gives you a lot of choices to help you deal with different threats. And honestly 5 Hellblasters sitting in the back with your captain to reroll 1's will prevent most deaths if you overcharge them (and if they die while they are next to the company ancient, you could get another supercharged shot out of them before they die anyways).


Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#12
strawberry fist

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I do like the idea of using vanguard but haven't really used them before... the only time I've used jump infantry was some assault marines at the start of 8th and didn't go well when they charged a 16 man crusader squad but they did hold them up for about 4 rounds of combat.

Hellblasters would be amazing but I'm trying tim stay away from the primaris range as it doesn't fit with the story arc of my army.

I think the main weakness is speed/ mobility and lack of combat units. So would the use of bodies whether it's terminators or vanguard be better than another fast veichle like a land speeder?

#13
Saxxon the Dragoon

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Vanguard vets are designed to tie units up in 8th edition. DS them and charge a priority target and that target has to either stay stuck in combat or fall back and lose its shooting, and can just be charged again. A vanguard squad tying up a full 16 man crusader squad for 4 turns is fantastic. Getting into tanks/walkers in the back field (and using relic blade, melta bombs, thunder hammers or powerfist) or keeping units bogged down is a lifesaver.

 

If you are ignoring primaris, then a squad of 3 landspeeders would be good (taking a unit of 3 increases their movement from 16" to 20"). The downside is that within 200 points, you cant really give them much other than heavy bolters and flamers. 3 landspeeders alone is going to cost 210 points. They will probably earn their points, and if they get charged they can still just move away and shoot because they have the fly keyword. Fitting them with just heavy bolters is going to be another 30 points, more if you plan on adding a secondary weapon. So you will have to adjust your list, but at 6 wounds a piece and toughness 5 (and 2 attacks, so you can charge with them if you want to contest objectives or bog a unit down until your next turn) they are a solid and under-appreciated option right now.

 

Terminators arent bad, but for your list they wouldnt be great. They only have 5" movement and 2 wounds, and with how easily it is to reduced their 2+ save they are hard to justify especially if they are you only melee unit (not to mention a squad with thunderhammers and storm shields aint cheap points wise, 2 with dual claws and 3 with TH/SS is going to be 217 points). Though you can deepstrike them, and hope you can get the charge off, but if you are lacking mobility, taking a unit with only 5+ move is not going to help your mobility issues.

 

Your best bet for the 200 points you have available is to either to go with vanguard, landspeeders, or possibly a flyer like a stormtalon (but Flyer roles wouldnt be able to capture objectives). I think the vanguard is your best option, but its not your only option. Bikers are the extreme option, a squad of 6 bikers with minimal upgrades is going to land you in the 180'ish territory, and it might be worth taking a power sword and special weapons like flamers or plasma guns, they do have 2 wounds and toughness 5. Bit it doesnt feel very salamander's like to take bikers. But if your rolling around with eisenhorn and an assassin, its not going to kill you to go with bikers or landspeeders.


Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#14
strawberry fist

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I'm not sure where I could put the ancient if I use him as I think id be putting the tactical combat squads into the razorbacks and driving them up the field so think he could be redundant. Might try and squeeze in a Celexus Assassin instead as an another distraction unit to appear in the back lines of his lines. 

 

If I were to run vanguard would you have 2 marines with the basic load out and the others tooled up as you mentioned above?

so it would be:

Sgt - relic blade and storm sheild

marine 2 - power sword + storm shield

marine 3 - power sword + storm shield

marine 4 - bolt pistol and chainsword

marine 5 - bolt pistol and chain sword

 

So if I were to the the celexus in place of the ancient i'd have 115 left to play with which could end up like this

2 storm shields, relic blade and power sword. 

Sgt - relic blade and storm sheild

marine 2 - power sword + storm shield

marine 3 - bolt pistol and chainsword

marine 4 - bolt pistol and chainsword

marine 5 - bolt pistol and chain sword

 

This way I'd be bob on 2000 points and have 9 chainsword attacks, 2 power sword and 3 relic blade attacks. 

 

How I envisage this list working then; the razorbacks moving up to grab objectives with the tactical marines (5 man) getting out as and when needed as well as Eisenhorn, Captain and Librarian hitching lifts in them as well, Sicaran and predators laying waste to enemy armour, thunder fire getting any troops out in the open, snipers and vindicare target the character buffers and finally the Vanguard and Celexus dropping in behind enemy lines tying up enemy units. Does that sound like a good strategy? 



#15
Saxxon the Dragoon

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Sounds like you got a good handle on the situation. Either loadout is fine honestly. If you want them to be more durable then go with the storm shields, but if you want more attacks then the second loadout is fine and leaves you a few more points to play with.

 

Overall your strategy seems about right for the situation. I would recommend though that your captain probably sit back with the tanks/thunderfire. I know the Sicaran could use the rerolls with all its shots, and if I remember correctly the thunderfire hits at a 4+ instead of a 3+. Remember though that if he is riding around in vehicles, nobody gets his aura ability for rerolls until he is back out on the field.


Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#16
strawberry fist

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The cannon fires on a 3+ with he techmarine firing his weapons on 2+ though may deploy him in a razorback to help with trying to get the +1 to the roll off. 

 

Just need to get some models for them now may have some old assault marines to proxy as them in the mean time. As most of my force is in MKIII armour (due to me playing heresy as well) just need to ponder whether using the 40k vanguard kit would be better than using the Forgeworld MKII/III assault marine kits.

 

Hopefully will try and get a game in over the weekend if the weather is going to co-operate. 

 

If you fancy seeing how I play check out a couple of my reports on this site:

https://scrollsofbar...ion-campaign-2/ 







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