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First wave of Forge World Custodes 40k beta rules


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#51
SkimaskMohawk

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Well in a pure detachment, it's a 5++. Not sure how relevant that is though as it only matters against ap -3 guns/weapons. -1 to hit is pretty annoying, but I feel is way over done and also not quite representative of a flare shield. Serpent shield - 1 dam might be interesting.

Also just realized that they're missing machine spirit :( . I get that people hate the custodes stuff in 30k, but the vehicles were frustrating purely from how flare shields, jink, machine spirit and a low amount of weapons interacted. Even then it's really the coronus as the main culprit since it's frontage was so large and it needed to die before it could unload dudes turn 1. The damage output was never really the problem

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#52
Ishagu

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The machine spirit omission isn't too bad because of the naturally good BS.

I think the Calidius at a cost of 260 with a 5++ would be worth the consideration.
To be honest, as only 1 can be taken per detachment none of these units are in any danger of being spammed or abused.

I think the Dread is actually good at 245 (because of stratagems available to Custodes also). Maybe a modest 5 point drop would be good for it.
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#53
wildweasel

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Yeah, the issue in 7E is that S vs AV means you could get to the point that even most AT weapons had little to no chance of hurting it. Under 8E lasguns can ping wounds off.

I suspect this initial ruleset is testing the "core" Custodes flavored mechanics for the vehicles and weapons, and will get more dialed in from here. Certianly a better approach than "soulburner pertrard looks fine, ship it lol".



#54
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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Wondering why the gun for caladius doesn't get the tracking. We have zero anti air. Hmm. Not that it hitting most fliers on a 3+ if it doesnt move is bad. It can't even kill a rhino though in one round realistically.

Hmm give it flat 2 damage and 5++ and be done with it.maybe drop 15 if those two things change.

#55
Withershadow

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Strange that they are creating new variants instead of just making rules for the existing models. The shield one should probably be rocking a 3++.

 

Wondering why the gun for caladius doesn't get the tracking. We have zero anti air. Hmm. Not that it hitting most fliers on a 3+ if it doesnt move is bad. It can't even kill a rhino though in one round realistically.

Hmm give it flat 2 damage and 5++ and be done with it.maybe drop 15 if those two things change.

Jetbikes have flakk missiles and there is a stratagem for anti-air, but fair enough.


Edited by Withershadow, 13 February 2018 - 08:25 PM.


#56
SkimaskMohawk

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I mean Ish, it's far far more reliable in the hitting department in 30k. There's so many -1 to hit rules floating around I think keeping it's move and shoot ability won't break the bank.

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#57
wildweasel

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Strange that they are creating new variants instead of just making rules for the existing models. The shield one should probably be rocking a 3++.

 

Jetbikes have flakk missiles and there is a stratagem for anti-air, but fair enough.

 

The "new variant" is basically an Achillus that forgot its dreadspear, with an option for an arm that's an existing weapon strapped onto it.

The Jetbike flakks are kinda terrible. Like IIRC the melta missile will do better firing at a single model unit.


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#58
Dulahan

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Well in a pure detachment, it's a 5++. 

 

No.  It's not.

 

The bonus to invuls only applies to Infantry and Bikers per the Codex itself.  The FAQ supposedly made this clearer too.  But none of the Dreads, or the Landraider, or now these ones get a bonus to invul in pure detachment.  They're not Infantry or Bikers.



#59
Kargrym

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Tank point cost is 315

Carrier point cost is 370

 

I wondered if it is better than a Venerable Land Raider until I stupidly remembered, duh, they fly! No worries about getting touched and never shoot again. That alone makes something like the tank and carrier last longer in the game.


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#60
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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Tank point cost is 315
Carrier point cost is 370

I wondered if it is better than a Venerable Land Raider until I stupidly remembered, duh, they fly! No worries about getting touched and never shoot again. That alone makes something like the tank and carrier last longer in the game.


It sure doesn't if your opponent is dark angels plasma spam or dark Eldar cannon spam. Or regular Eldar dark reapers.

Hmmm.

#61
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It sure doesn't if your opponent is dark angels plasma spam

 

AHA!



#62
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That’s a pretty small subset of units to be balancing against, in fairness. Not irrelevant, but only a tiny slice.

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#63
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That’s a pretty small subset of units to be balancing against, in fairness. Not irrelevant, but only a tiny slice.


Sample bias where I live I guess lol
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#64
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I just think that because Custodians are inherently costly pointswise their transports should get a nice points break.


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#65
Ishagu

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The Carrier is OK. It should have a 5++ and the burst mode on the main gun should be heavy 2D6 but in terms of cost it makes sense as it has a very favourable degrading profile and can keep up with bikes.

The Calidius tank also needs a 5++ and a drop of around 55 points and we'll be talking. Also, every gun has random damage - just make the main cannon damage 2 and everyone will be happier.

Edited by Ishagu, 13 February 2018 - 10:34 PM.

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#66
wildweasel

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I just think that because Custodians are inherently costly pointswise their transports should get a nice points break.

 

I'm a Custodes fan person and nah, that's not how it works.


The Carrier is OK. It should have a 5++ and the burst mode on the main gun should be heavy 2D6 but in terms of cost it makes sense as it has a very favourable degrading profile and can keep up with bikes.

The tank also needs a 5++ and a drop of around 55 points and we'll be talking.

 

I think even more than keeping up with bikes it being 8" faster than foot slogging versus 4" makes riding in it for a turn actually pretty worthwhile.

Agreed on the other points - an invul 3 worse than your armor is largely moot.


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#67
SkimaskMohawk

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Well in a pure detachment, it's a 5++.


No. It's not.

The bonus to invuls only applies to Infantry and Bikers per the Codex itself. The FAQ supposedly made this clearer too. But none of the Dreads, or the Landraider, or now these ones get a bonus to invul in pure detachment. They're not Infantry or Bikers.

Yea woops I skimmed my epub on low light.

Invul is garbage then. It only matters against Melta guns; 17% chance is a joke.

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#68
Black Orange

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I am really liking the grav transport tank a lot. <3


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#69
Drudge Dreadnought

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It's really great to see them taking community feedback. This gives me hope that they might bring back the Legion Dreadnoughts with custom rules/wargear (especially for the Chaos ones.)



#70
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And so many points...

 

 

This is the trend with FW units in 8th, I'm afraid...

 

The rules seem really good, it has me tempted to finish the Custodes I have and perhaps delve into a filthy Loyalist force for the first time. Hmm...


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#71
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Our Beta Rules topic has been created (see that forum).

Discussion of the FAQ should take place in the Agents of the Imperium forum.

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