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Adeptus Custodes FW beta rules


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121 replies to this topic

#101
SkimaskMohawk

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It's a single mortal wound per 6. Probably is a bit too weak though, especially compared to the devastation rolling a 6 causes in 30k. Either number it's attacks and strength up to the old levels (6 and 8 respectively) and keep the mortal wound mechanic, or pump up the damage potential as suggested.

Also if really like to know if they plan on adding a heliothermic rule to all the weapons that had it. Kind of the defining feature on the bolters and cannons

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#102
TheFinisher4Ever

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Helix, that's some good Intel. The Coronus, being mostly a transport, really won't shine until facing a shooting army. Keep us posted on how game 2 goes.

Ad Mech - 5,000 points

Blood Angels - 12,000 points

Dark Angels - 6,500 points

Deathwatch - 3,000 points

Eldar - 18,500 points

Imperial Fists - 5,000 points

Imperial Guard - 1,000 points

Grey Knights - 6,500 points

Sisters of Battle - 4,000 points

 


#103
Stormxlr

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Guys don't forget to email all your thoughts to FW!
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#104
dtse

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Tbh with bikers and ability to deepstrike I just don’t see a role in Custodes for big expensive transports
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#105
SkimaskMohawk

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It works fine in 30k if you use a couple of them, but that's a combination of being way more survivable (las cannons needing a 5 or 6 do anything and a flat 4+ to stop it as opposed to needing 3s to do anything with a 5+ to prevent damage and then 1/6 wounds stopped) all for almost 2/3 of the points.

I get that there isn't supposed to be annoyingly hard to kill units any more, but a transport can't be as expensive as guilliman and not even be a good option.

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#106
Honda

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Tbh with bikers and ability to deepstrike I just don’t see a role in Custodes for big expensive transports

 

 

*cough, artillery, *cough


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#107
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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My email to fw regarding the dread:

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought 

2 games, adeptus custodes faction only

dreadspear and the achillus in general.

The dreadspear is simply overcosted and the mortal wound ability is underwhelming for what a big deal it should be. Point cost of dread too high, same issue dreadknights have.

Suggestion: Dreadspear make it a single shot. The random shots adds time and costs that feel overly random and weak. Make the to-wound of a 6 a 2d6 damage (minimum 3 still) instead of a mortal wound. The mortal wound is silly. The AP needs to be looked at as well. Same ap as a spear in the hands of a custodes? Keep it but Add one attack to the dread's profile, a dread should have more attacks than wardens or allarus. 

Drop cost of dreadspear by 25 to make up for removal of random las cannon hits. This keeps the unit still competitive, and highly priced, implementing all of the above would make him a hard choice vs more allarus or bikes.



#108
Ishagu

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I think the Dreadspear should be 2 shots, D6 damage. Same profile as a Las Talon.

The best thing about this dread is actually having some decent shooting. When the Galataus comes out, I think that should have more of a melee focus and survivability.

Edited by Ishagu, 17 February 2018 - 05:11 PM.

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#109
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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I think the Dreadspear should be 2 shots, D6 damage. Same profile as a Las Talon.

The best thing about this dread is actually having some decent shooting. When the Galataus comes out, I think that should have more of a melee focus and survivability.


Fair enough! You try it yet? I can test that one today.

#110
Ishagu

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I've used it in a small game. It's ok. The Custodes need reliable firepower.
The Achillus needs 5 Attacks, the Dreadspear shooting profile should be the same as a Las-Talon, and the point cost needs a slight drop. 10/15 perhaps, if the other changes take place.

The Achillus is the closest beta unit to one that's actually playable. If they keep the rule in place limiting these to one per detachment then the Calidius Tanks needs to drop to 240 points.
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#111
SkimaskMohawk

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Really depends if they're trying to prevent as much disparity between 30k and 40k units as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if they just axed the points; theyre for sure scared of recreating 30k broken custodes, but currently priced things a bit too high

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#112
Honda

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The best thing about this dread is actually having some decent shooting. When the Galataus comes out, I think that should have more of a melee focus and survivability.

 

 

It would be nice to see something like a 3++ for the big shield and 2 x S, AP -2, D3 damage?


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#113
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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I want to see the galatus be able to shred infantry. Additional attack for each model in cc range? Use of sword flamer in CC? Yuppp.



#114
HCMistborn

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Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.

#115
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.


Me thinks this would be overly complicated and probably busy up his rules to much.

A 4++ with -1 to hit from shield would be beast though especially if it could stack with banner. How thematic would a dread with a massive shield charging in front of his brothers be deflecting fire away and tanking the strongest hits?

#116
MysticTemplar

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Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.

Me thinks this would be overly complicated and probably busy up his rules to much.

A 4++ with -1 to hit from shield would be beast though especially if it could stack with banner. How thematic would a dread with a massive shield charging in front of his brothers be deflecting fire away and tanking the strongest hits?

That would make the shield work like it does in the 30k rules, which would be nice.

Worth noting that weapons having damage carry over does already exist in 8th - The Deathwing Knight sergeant's Flail of the Unforgiven does this.

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#117
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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K soooo ended up against a deldar army.

Our transport goes boom real quick. Didn't even get  a turn to use it. They just swooped in with a gagillion of those lance shots and murdered it dead. It didn't explode at least...

Yeah when enemy goes first it really doesn't do anything. If you go first it's really to many points to justify. I think I am backinto the drop it 100 points category. But then I am feeling salty. 

Meanwhile the caladius is outclassed in every way by a tantalus besides accuracy of shots. It can transport and has a better invul save and more wounds. 

Why is our tank the same toughness and save as a tantalus (with worse invul)? What sort of madness is this? 

I guess chapter approved bumped the tantalus up 50 points but damn yo for 75 points you can haul so much nastiness shoot a ton dakka the crap outta things and drop off murderes. 

But yeah...I digress. Caladius is a good 30 points to high and the gun needs 2D and the invul needs a 5++. 

What about instead of a +1 to hit hard to hit fliers it get's re-rolls against things with fly key word? Better? Worse?

We also really need the anti tank version to get rules. We are lacking that super hard. 



#118
SkimaskMohawk

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The sicaran just ignored modifiers if it targets fly, copy that

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#119
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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Final game VS tau at 2k. Hammer head with the character and a some of the ranged suits with some screens of kroot and some commander spam thrown. Then a ton of breachers popping out of everything. 

I had 3X3bikes, wardens in coronus, the achillus, and bike shield captain squad with some troops thrown in and allarus with banner of -1 to hit.

The cornous took some wounds during his first tun but survived this time due to his inability to hit with much. Idk if it's just that tau in general don't feel good but he just could not output enough damage to deal with 11 bikes shredding his troops and then making it across the board so fast. 

Dread didn't get to do much he took a very bad hit early on from the Farsight guy. Dropped like 10 wounds turn 1? Oh well. That was bound to happen to something. 

This was a case where the coronus was useful. He had so many units blocking teleporting action that I just dropped my banner during deployment. I don't think he could have done much to the warden but the movement was at least nice when there are lots of teleport screens near objectives.  Still feels oppressively untanky without a 5+. I will still say 35-50 points over cost MINIMUM.


Edited by Hellex_The_Thanatar, 18 February 2018 - 11:47 PM.


#120
Ishagu

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I've proxied my Raider as a Coronus now in a test against Marines, Chaos and IG.

I think with a 2+ save, the Raider is more survivable as most anti tank weapons are AP-3. There's a real case for the invul to be a 5++.
The Anti Tank fire is also lacking, I really missed the 4 Lascannons and Hunter Killer missile.

With those negatives out of the way it's pretty great in other ways. The movement stats are spot on, as is the profile degradation. 6 models instead of 5 is also really useful. 5 Wardens + Vexilla or Shield Captain is really good to move up alongside the Bikes.

Price the Coronus at 345 with a 5++ and I'll be happy. Maybe a little lower as any model like this will be a really big target.
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#121
Charlo

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Or even make the damage roll over to the next model in a unit.

 

Deathwing Knights & Death guard have weapons that do this already, so there is a precedent.


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#122
Hellex_The_Thanatar

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Final game I played yesterday: 

VS Nids, they had lots of zoans a 5 man hive squad some huge venomthrope group and tons of different giblies and 2 tervigon.. 

The 2 caladius did a number on them turn one, I rolled stupid hot for the d3 damage and dropped 4 out of 5 of his hive guards which was a massive boon, and dropped 2 or 3 zoans. Averaged out I think I only would have killed 2 or 3 of the hive guard as, I just rolled stupid good. I only failed 1 wound roll with a re-roll from Valoris. Was trying the back field buff mander..he's to manypoints but that re-roll wound is juicy. Gman would do it better but that's a different issue. 

List was simply 1 batallion bare min everything with a caladius, then a vanguard with valoris, 2 different banners a few allarus and another caladius. Two caladius was pretty good, though once his nids made it into cc with my limited troops they were tied up basically all game as a tervagon spawned more. He won on objectives but that is some opressive fire power for nids to deal with when they can't lock it down. 

This list likely would never have worked with anything that had ranged anti-tank to many points and like I said I lost on objectives due to having almost no foot print. 


Edited by Hellex_The_Thanatar, Yesterday, 02:44 AM.





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