wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 The vexillae are different appearance wise, but they never assigned “the vexilla from this kit is a Vexilla Magnifica and this one a Defensor and this one an Imperius.” The “power knife” bit is now a misericordia. Have a guy carrying a vexilla with that bit? Guess what: the Codex lets you put it on the table. The flowchart is for letting models that can’t be put on the table using just the codex still be used. But anyways I’m sure you all have already sent this in to GW’s 40K FAQ email but I sent it in as well for good measure :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 A power knife has different rules to a misericordia. They are not the same wargear. Also *guy with sentinel blade and no ss* is a codex legal option. Regardless of any extra bling you might or might not have put on your model. So why do you let the Custodian Guard take that index option in your house rules? Also Which body bling represents the Vexilus Praetor? The warden leg cloak or no warden leg cloak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Why do you let guard take a vexilla in yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Flowchart allows me to. And That's not a house rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Sure, if you house rule not having to use the codex datasheet for “model with vexilla and knife bit.” BTW here’s that email for you just in case: 40kfaq@gwplc.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Knife bit... Please stop making stuff up. I really don't want eddie to lock this thread before the meat of it, whether the index custodes vexila has to follow codex rules or not, has been discussed. I don't need to email them. I'm following the rules they have released. And You fail to address which body bling represents a Vexilus Praetor. Or do you agree that there can be multiple differences for the same Datasheet model with they same wargear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 That bit has no rules in the Codex? Could you post a photo of it so I don’t accidentally use it instead of the misericordia bits? Thanks, Tony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 You see how rediculous your entire argument is don't you? How about i model a custodes guard with the black templar upgrade spru sword in scabard for the power knife. Then you'll allow the flowchart? Anyway i guess we were done a long time ago. Eddie linked the flowchart as the second post in this thread and you don't even agree its RAW. There's no point continuing this with you. I have little desire to argue your personal house rules with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 What’s ridiculous about want to not field a model with an illegal power knife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I don't need to email them. I'm following the rules they have released. So why are you posting tactics in a rules forum if you don’t have any questions about the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Stop Being an arse. First to check the flow of the chart is correct. Secondly now to discuss whether the index vex has to use the same rules as the codex. Which i mention 4 posts above. Why are you posting in a rules thread when you don't even agree the rules are rules? This isn't the homebrew sub forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 “Someone agreed with what I already believed so my rules question is settled!” So why not shoot it to GW and get official conformation if you weren’t sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 But the crux of it is: when does a physical model become “model name on a datasheet”? We have a Custodian model build with the vexilla and the knife bit. Does it become a Vexilla Praetor or a Custodian Guard when we pick it up and decide which role we want to use it in, then insert it in the flowchart to find the datasheet to use that model in that role, or do we insert the model into the flowchart and that determines which datasheet allows you to field it and that defines the role. *That* is undefined currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 My custodian guards arms are magnetized. I don't put the Vex arm on him until i get him out of the box. Days after i wrote the list, chosing him as a Custodian Guard mini using index wargear options... Your physical mini doesn't define units in your army list. Your army list defines what physical minis you use. Most people write lists based on what physicals minis they own. But the list comes first. Especially with magnets. And again. If you wanted a guy with big banner and power knife (the wargear stats not what you model the knife as), the only legal option is Guard using index wargear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 When does that bit on the model become a power knife versus a misericordia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 The flowchart doesn’t say “how do you determine which model to use with the datasheets you pick for your army” but “how do I determine which datasheet to use with this model?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 There are units with no models. There are wargear with no models. Stick a combat knife bit on. No different to building a Grand Master in NDK. That's if you vehemently argue that all AC sword bits are now Misericordias. And that the existence of new boxes make old models wirh older designated power knives obselete and you must use a different bit. Knock Your self out. Still doesn't change the rules. Want to comment on Vexilus Praetor bodies yet? You've studioulsy avoided that. Edit. Follow The flowchart. I've already posted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 In more detail; I have a Custodian Guard model. Built from the Custoduan Guard box. His arms are magnetized his wargear options not fixed yet. Could be Sword and Board, could be Spear. I Want to use the model as a legal Custodian Guard. I check the index for any extra options as we are permitted to use them. 1. Does the Custodian Guard model have a Codex datasheet? Yes *Custodian Guard* 2. Are there index only wargear options? Yes 3. Use the Codex version of your models datasheet. *Custodian Guard* 4. Use the index version for wargear options. One Custodian in the unit may replace its Guardian Spear with a Custodes Vexila and a Power Knife. This is a legal option for my Custodain Guard model from my Custodian Guard datasheet. And i assemble the model accordingly. All RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Cloth doesn’t define if something is a Vexilla Praetor, the vexilla does. What I’m arguing is “when does that sword bit become a power invite versus a misericordia”: is that the intent upon selection of the unit, or is that based on “what datasheets can cover that bit on the model”? Which is currently undefined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 So the specfic model used didn't define the model. A Vexilus Praetor could use Guard bits or Warden bits. As long as the end product is legal. Right? Could even use a bare head or a helmeted head. Show me a power knife bit. Show me a grand master in nemesis dreadknight model. Unless You want to tell all GK players they can't actually use that unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Magnetizing is a red herring. You don’t select an incomplete model to insert into the flowchart, you insert a full model with all its arms and gear on. You want to use the model as a Custodian Guard, yes, but at which point does it become Custodian Guard per the Custodian Guard datasheet as opposed to “model of a Custodian with vexilla and small sword”? Citation please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 So no one can write army lists away from thier models. Wow. That's going to shock the playerbase. Edit. This while modelling fiassco is redundant. If You pick up a fully built Custodian Guard model with vexila and whatever you are using to represent a power knife. It is a legal option to use. Full stop. Unless You can show the flowchart is incorrect. Edit. And now you agree 'cloth' like a cloak does not make a model. Do explain how you can have a Guard with Sentinel Blade and no SS. As That model has to be a Shield Captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I dunno about you but I find it pretty easy to remember whats in my collection, and for when I don’t I have collection lists in QM with my full inventory. But again, red herring. The entire point of the flowchart is to enable use of models that otherwise could not be fielded in any fashion due to the physical gear they have/what they are. Define when the bit supplied in the kit as a misericordia becomes a power knife. Or show me the discontinued power knife bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Guard with Sentinel Blade and no SS explaination please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildweasel Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Guard with Sentinel Blade and no SS explaination please. All Shield-Captains now unfortunately, as that’s the only datasheet in the Codex with that as legal loadout (and therefore, by definition, any model with that loadout is distinctively a Shield-Captain regardless of any other modeling or lack there of). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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