I need some advise on starting chaos

[sunspear]

I just ordered some of the betrayal at calth minis as I like them better than the current chaos marines. I figure I can convert them a bit.

So I need some help with creating the army. First off I will say that I will mostly just meeting up fora gameat the LGS and maybe, once in a while play in a local tournament.

I really like the look of the word bearers. But the world eaters seem to be more the way I would like the army to play. I like the close combat aspect of berserkers.

Can I combine the WB and WE?

Is there a way to have close combat style troops with only WB?

Thanks for any help.

[Vantraxx]

They can be combined in 2 separate detachments.

Fluff wise if you read Betrayer, they join up to cause much havoc amongst the stars so they could easily be combined thematically.

WB can use any marks and can combine any of the cult troops so they can mix in beserkers but without the WE +1 attack advantages.

[sunspear]

Vantraxx- thanks, are you talking about the extra attack in melee that berzerkers get or is it the +1 legion trait thing? I'm waiting on the codex to be mailed to me

[Kite Senet]

I was under the impression that Word Bearers were pretty melee-heavy already, since they seem to be best played with massive hordes of cultists; it would seem you could probably take them with close combat and pistols, though I haven't a clue if that's a competitive option, since I always just default my cultists to autoguns in the kitchen table games I play (though I'm T-Sons, not WB or WE). I haven't the CSM codex yet, as mine is (coincidentally) also in the post, but if the Dark Apostles in codex CSM are anything like their Index iteration then they'd seem to synergize quite well with masses of cultists.

 

If I were in your position, I think I'd save (most of) the space marine models for World Eaters, and focus on building a Word Bearers cultist blob with Dark Apostle leaders to accompany it. But that's just my thoughts.

[sunspear]

Kite- that is something I was thinking about. A dark apostle and cultists, use berserkers as my troops choice.

T

[Kite Senet]

I'm definitely the wrong person to be asking about strategy, but Berzerkers + cultists seems like it would be a pretty decent list idea overall. The concern I would have is whether or not I could get both units in range for melee, particularly against elite armies with few models or in crowded corridors. If the Berzerkers are in front, they take the brunt of the overwatch, but if the cultists are in front they could very well block the Berzerkers from even getting in melee range, and you don't want your Berzerkers sitting bored while the cultists wail away at thick armor ineffectually. Maybe that could be resolved by just using slightly smaller cultist blobs, but then you don't get to push huge blobs of models around on the table, which is much of what I enjoy about cultists. You could probably work around these geometric concerns with smart play though.

[Panzer]

You could either take a WE detachment with Troop Berzerker (with the legions +1 attack) together with a Word Bearers detachment with whatever you like ... or simply a full Word Bearers army with Elite Berzerker and whatever else you like.
Game-wise the WE+WB combination is clearly stronger however since I like playing mono armies I'd probably go with the pure WB army myself.

Edited February 19, 2018 by sfPanzer

[sunspear]

Panzer- what would you use as troop choices? Only cultists? Would you take basic marines or something else?

[Panzer]

In a pure Word Bearer army? Well it really depends on the rest of your army but since you also want to use Berzerker I'd probably take just Cultists. It's not just the stronger option it's also very fluffy in a Word Bearers army. If you don't like to play without basic Chaos Marines I'd take two 10 man units with two Lascannons each I think.

[Vantraxx]

Vantraxx- thanks, are you talking about the extra attack in melee that berzerkers get or is it the +1 legion trait thing? I'm waiting on the codex to be mailed to me

The beserkers get to fight twice in the combat phase regardless of legion.

As World Eaters they get +1 attack when they charge from the legion trait. They are also a troop choice for World Eaters.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Vantraxx

[CrystalSeer]

You could either take a WE detachment with Troop Berzerker (with the legions +1 attack) together with a Wird Bearers detachment with whatever you like ... or simply a full Word Bearers army with Elite Berzerker and whatever else you like.

Game-wise the WE+WB combination is clearly stronger however since I like playing mono armies I'd probably go with the pure WB army myself.

I thought berserker troops went away with the new codex? I'd love to be wrong.

[Panzer]

 

You could either take a WE detachment with Troop Berzerker (with the legions +1 attack) together with a Wird Bearers detachment with whatever you like ... or simply a full Word Bearers army with Elite Berzerker and whatever else you like.

Game-wise the WE+WB combination is clearly stronger however since I like playing mono armies I'd probably go with the pure WB army myself.

I thought berserker troops went away with the new codex? I'd love to be wrong.

 

Then you're going to love this. It got FAQed back in. :P

[CrystalSeer]

 

 

You could either take a WE detachment with Troop Berzerker (with the legions +1 attack) together with a Wird Bearers detachment with whatever you like ... or simply a full Word Bearers army with Elite Berzerker and whatever else you like.

Game-wise the WE+WB combination is clearly stronger however since I like playing mono armies I'd probably go with the pure WB army myself.

I thought berserker troops went away with the new codex? I'd love to be wrong.

 

Then you're going to love this. It got FAQed back in.

 

 

You sir, have made my day. I shall proceed to cackle maniacally as I redraft my lists.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

If you're playing WB, don't forget Possessed and Terminators (The Anointed). Also leave some room to summon Daemons. Bloodletters are often a good choice.

[sunspear]

Greaterchicken- i like the idea of possesses and termies, are the anointed a special unit or a name from WB fluff?

I am a bit of a purist when it comes to my armies also but I see WB as non specific and would probably use anyone that was like minded

[DuskRaider]

Even hordes of basic Chaos Space Marines are very fluffy for Word Bearers. Remember, they're the most numerous Traitor Legion (during the Heresy, I'm not sure afterwards). Blobs of CSMs and Cultists would work quite well and you could even have an allied detachment of those World Eaters that you could eventually expand into another army.

 

I'd also suggest looking into picking up CSM bits to mix and match with your B@C Marines, it works quite well.

[sunspear]

I was planning on adding some CSM bits to the marines, I was curious as to how it would look. Glad to know it works out.

[ToyShip]

You like Berzerkers and the Word Bearers, am I reading this correctly? A good way to explain using a detachment of World Eaters and a detachment of Word Bearers would be to paint em up as the Sanctified, a Word Bearers splinter faction dedicated to Khorne...

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sanctified,_The

[Panzer]

You like Berzerkers and the Word Bearers, am I reading this correctly? A good way to explain using a detachment of World Eaters and a detachment of Word Bearers would be to paint em up as the Sanctified, a Word Bearers splinter faction dedicated to Khorne...

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sanctified,_The

A Khorne dedicated splinter group of the WB would still be WB and not WE tho.

I don't see the problem in simply using WB Berzerker except that it's not as strong as possible.

 

It's pretty much a question between crunch and fluff. Unless of course you specifically want WE Berzerker fighting together with your WB.

[sunspear]

Toy ship- that's not a bad idea...hmm.

Panzer- why would a WB berserker not be as strong as possible. Forgive me I don't have the codex yet.

I guess it boils down to this, I played a lot in 5th, some in 6th, sat out 7th and now with 8th I would like to get back in. I have always liked the WBs paint scheme and iconography, I played CSM heavily in 5th but used black legion so I could take what I wanted. But I have always wanted a WBs army I I figured this time I'm going to do it. But I like having troops that can hit hard, specifically marines. I like cultists and the fluff surrounding them and the WB and maybe I'm too old school, I've been around this game since the early 90s but I like hard hitting marines and termies and chaos lords and other than that I can pretty much roll with anything. So that is what started me thinking about using berserkers or WE of some kind in a WB army. I have to be able to justify the fluff in my head though (call me crazy) but that's where I'm at right now

And again, thanks for all the advise and direction.

[Panzer]

As said before, because he'd be lacking the +1 Attack he'd get from the World Eater legion trait.

[Akrim]

As a WB faithful I say join us brother! The nice part about WBs is you can access many of the strategems. They may however have the weakest Legion traits of all the Undivided Legions (compared to Alphas, BL, Renegades).

 

That said I frequently field at least one Zerker squad in a Rhino. Nothing unfluffy about non-WE Zerkers.

[sunspear]

Panzer- ok,got it.

Akrim- I'm going to go with WB. I've been wanting to do them for a long time. I was just trying to get some ideas and as I said I like to keep to the fluff a little bit.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

The Anointed, IIRC, are a Terminator bodyguard for Marduk in the Word Bearer novels.

[sunspear]

Thanks Res, wasn't sure if that was a rules unit or a fluff one. I will have to check that book out