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Twin Autocannon build for Dreads/Ven Dreads


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#51
Waking Dreamer

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I brought up Armigers because they were (at least prior to leaks) of consideration as a replacement for Venerable Dreads.
 
At 240 points though with full melta, I have to agree. GW really dropped the ball. Even 227 with the stubber is still way overpriced. 
 
The D3 shots isn't really the issue IMO, Neutron Onagers also fire D3. The difference being that they're 170 points with that weapon, and almost identical in terms of statline. Armigers are also going to be ranging way ahead of your lines, so unlike Onagers they can't hang around a Dominus for easy re-rolls. 
 
They need to come down to 200 points, then they would be at least comparable. I'm hoping the Knight codex does that, along with drastically reducing the insane points of their bigger brothers. 
 
I'm gonna go with my original plan of four Venerables :( hopefully 30k rules for Armigers aren't garbage. I'm still getting three of them because I love the model. But yeah, hard pass in 40k until they get cheaper.


Have you play-tested any of your VenDreads with the twin autocannons yet?

On the topic of ranged anti-armour, what are your initial thoughts of a unit that has 4 lascannons, hitting on it's native BS3+ even on the move, but increases to BS2+ against anything with FLY. Has T7, 11W, -1 To Hit (Supersonic 20" move) and an additional weapon profile of: Range 60", Heavy 3, AP-2, Dmg 3 (BS bonuses the same as it's Lascannons)...for the same points as the Armiger though..??

#52
Helycon

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I brought up Armigers because they were (at least prior to leaks) of consideration as a replacement for Venerable Dreads.

At 240 points though with full melta, I have to agree. GW really dropped the ball. Even 227 with the stubber is still way overpriced.

The D3 shots isn't really the issue IMO, Neutron Onagers also fire D3. The difference being that they're 170 points with that weapon, and almost identical in terms of statline. Armigers are also going to be ranging way ahead of your lines, so unlike Onagers they can't hang around a Dominus for easy re-rolls.

They need to come down to 200 points, then they would be at least comparable. I'm hoping the Knight codex does that, along with drastically reducing the insane points of their bigger brothers.

I'm gonna go with my original plan of four Venerables :( hopefully 30k rules for Armigers aren't garbage. I'm still getting three of them because I love the model. But yeah, hard pass in 40k until they get cheaper.

Have you play-tested any of your VenDreads with the twin autocannons yet?

On the topic of ranged anti-armour, what are your initial thoughts of a unit that has 4 lascannons, hitting on it's native BS3+ even on the move, but increases to BS2+ against anything with FLY. Has T7, 11W, -1 To Hit (Supersonic 20" move) and an additional weapon profile of: Range 60", Heavy 3, AP-2, Dmg 3 (BS bonuses the same as it's Lascannons)...for the same points as the Armiger though..??
It's one that can no longer be used by Grey Knights, unless you create a different detachment for it.

#53
Danarc

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Nope. You can use it since it is in the codex with kw gk

#54
Helycon

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Nope. You can use it since it is in the codex with kw gk

Since a Xiphon is a Forge World model, it most certainly isn't in the codex.

#55
Danarc

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Sry I was talking about Dreddy. My fault.

 

The choice to cancel Xyphon from GK armoury is illogic, but fits with the GW anti GK strategy.



#56
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Have you play-tested any of your VenDreads with the twin autocannons yet?
On the topic of ranged anti-armour, what are your initial thoughts of a unit that has 4 lascannons, hitting on it's native BS3+ even on the move, but increases to BS2+ against anything with FLY. Has T7, 11W, -1 To Hit (Supersonic 20" move) and an additional weapon profile of: Range 60", Heavy 3, AP-2, Dmg 3 (BS bonuses the same as it's Lascannons)...for the same points as8the Armiger though..??

It's one that can no longer be used by Grey Knights, unless you create a different detachment for it.

We get 5 CPs for a battalion now, so I'm thinking paying 1 CP might be worth it depending on your meta. I'm sure the Xiphon will annihilate those Eldar Wave Serpents, Flyrants or those "Kill-shot" using Predators. The Xiphon doesn't care about the new deep strike beta rules, and you can deploy it right in your back corner (adding to the PL of your army starting on the board), but can still be within range of almost anything the opponent's army is trying to protect in its backline Turn 1.

The usual GK army is lacking range anti-armour options.

#57
Helycon

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Have you play-tested any of your VenDreads with the twin autocannons yet?
On the topic of ranged anti-armour, what are your initial thoughts of a unit that has 4 lascannons, hitting on it's native BS3+ even on the move, but increases to BS2+ against anything with FLY. Has T7, 11W, -1 To Hit (Supersonic 20" move) and an additional weapon profile of: Range 60", Heavy 3, AP-2, Dmg 3 (BS bonuses the same as it's Lascannons)...for the same points as8the Armiger though..??

It's one that can no longer be used by Grey Knights, unless you create a different detachment for it.

We get 5 CPs for a battalion now, so I'm thinking paying 1 CP might be worth it depending on your meta. I'm sure the Xiphon will annihilate those Eldar Wave Serpents, Flyrants or those "Kill-shot" using Predators. The Xiphon doesn't care about the new deep strike beta rules, and you can deploy it right in your back corner (adding to the PL of your army starting on the board), but can still be within range of almost anything the opponent's army is trying to protect in its backline Turn 1.

The usual GK army is lacking range anti-armour options.

 

It very much depends on what else you're bringing. Most tournaments have a maximum of 3 detachment rule. If you can fit it in, more power to you!

 

I'm not saying it's a bad choice, I was more bringing it to the attention, since it is something to keep in mind. Also, it IS Forge World, and not everyone wants  to spend a lot of cash on a single model or work with resin. Others don't want to play against it. 



#58
Matt_149

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Why do you have to pay -1cp to get them can't you just take an airwing detachment from another chapter? Sure you can't target them with buffing powers but as long as the detachment shares the keyword the army doesn't....at least that's what I thought? :)

#59
Helycon

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Sure you can, but that is a hefty tax. And no longer mono GK for the poeple that want to make it work, which is a sizeable amount of people.

#60
Matt_149

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Ahh I see, I misunderstood didn't realize we were looking at mono only :) stormhawk interceptors are a quite good alternative and have worked for me in the last couple of games. But it does depend on what opponents you fight a lot, my area has a lot of enemies with the fly key word, jet bikes etc

#61
Corvus Fortis

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Actually, you can take a xiphon in a GK detachment. It will be "Adeptus Astartes" keyword, and it is not banned for mono-detachment, IIRC. 



#62
Helycon

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Actually, you can take a xiphon in a GK detachment. It will be "Adeptus Astartes" keyword, and it is not banned for mono-detachment, IIRC.

Whilst true, it does lose the Grey Knight detachment, and therefore loses brotherhood of psykers. So unless you go with 3 flyers in an air wing, going for an auxiliary is the best choice.




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