Are Plague Marines Competetive?

[BlackTriton]

I played my girlfriend Tyranid over the weekend, and although it wasn't a competitive game i thought I would share how the Plague marine fared.

This was a 1000 point game.

 

Turn 1, a 5man plague Marine (only bolters) got charged by 10 Genestealers. The Xenos made 6 wounds on the unit, but only 2 of them died. The last 3 then killed one foul beast each. 

The unit then hold an objective for the whole game, under withering fire. they did not kill anything else.

 

I had a 7man plague marine bomb unit. the turn they disembarked, the BlightSpawn hosed a Broodlord dead, then they proceeded to Blight bombardment + VotLW the swarmlord down to 1W and finished him in combat. It was glorious and turned the game.

 

PoxWalker did ok, I was able to mitigate their slowness with some charge move shenanigan. They mostly just got shot on an objective. The objective stayed uncontested because she did not want to bring infantry next to them, in fear they would turn into more poxwalker. 

 

Overall an impressive (and my first against her) victory for Nurgle :)

[Checkmate77]

Congratz on your victory BT,

 

Question regarding your PM bomb unit, what support characters did they have with them?  Just the FBS or the Purifier as well?  Did you equip them with any other weapons?

[McElMcNinja]

I run my plague bomb with 7 cc Marines: champion with plague sword & plasma pistol, 2 flail, and 4 axes in a rhino. Then a Chaos Lord w/balesword & plasma pistol, a Putrifier, and a Blightspawn (warlord with Arch-contaminator) ride along in the rhino as well.

It's a lot of eggs in one basket, but I have effectively used them in every game so far. I've taken down titans, baneblades, DP's, well pretty much everything in 1 turn.

The key to it is popping smoke and casting the -1 to hit on the rhino, so your opponent is at -2 to hit. Turn 2 you should be in range to bomb away.

[BlackTriton]

I used biologus(forgot he gives 2 damage per grenade so the swarmlord was utra dead)+ blightspawn (gives his death head to the biologus se he's free to hose instead).

I had a lord, but he died baiting the 2 enemy HQ in position.

The marines were equiped with 2 flails and knives. I feel the 2 flails (plus maybe a fist) is the right point / effectiveness ratio for me.

[DuskRaider]

IMO all of the CC weapons are good with the exception of the Cleaver... and even that could potentially be useful against vehicles. Obviously the Flail is tops, but the Axes are nice too.

[Prot]

Wow mcNinja that’s a heavy duty squad. I use a flail and fist with shooty blended in.

 

I’m losing my love of the fist though. Funny it just seems to miss so often. And yea I love the look of the heavy cleaver but it’s pretty bad.

[Plaguecaster]

I usually find that sticking a Tallyman near a unit with cleavers works pretty well in making them more reliable due to the rerolls from the tallyman's aura yeah flail is still better but I just like the looks of the cleaver so much more though I don't always field CC plague marine squads just sometimes to see how they go

[BlackTriton]

I find the cleaver in competition with the fist in my list.

The fist win cause its cheaper and can be equiped by the champion, giving me 2 swing. So much more value.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Man I feel like I'm the most unlucky one here. The lists I play against are usually something like a Kronos nid list with 12 hive guard and 6 biovores, or some contrived ynnari dark reaper bomb with hemlocks in tow.

 

I run 8 dudes but its bare bones aside from flails. Can't afford to invest in champion weapons or axes or anything 

[Prot]

Man I feel like I'm the most unlucky one here. The lists I play against are usually something like a Kronos nid list with 12 hive guard and 6 biovores, or some contrived ynnari dark reaper bomb with hemlocks in tow.

 

I run 8 dudes but its bare bones aside from flails. Can't afford to invest in champion weapons or axes or anything

 

I’m pretty sure you’re not the only one here who plays against cut throat lists. I play against my fair share. The thing is I’ll try new things, I mean the topic is about competitive Plague Marines. I’ve stated (as others have) they aren’t top their.

 

If I’m playing that kind of game I have one squad ( maybe 2 depending on the build) of 5 Plague Marines with 2 Blightlaunchers.

 

Actually I think you’re the pro plasma guy too. Ironically I also play against Nids like that and find Melta infinitely better against those armies. I can’t find room for melta on Plague Marines but my Blightlords run it all the time now.

 

I just had my last plasma experiment against IG parking lot with deep striking special weapons teams. Game was over once my Blightlords came in with plasma and tickled some vehicles.

 

In that game I tried 2 squads of Plague marines escorted by 3 Blight Haulers. They got raked pretty hard against Cadia re rolls.

 

So I think my Plague Marine experiment has gone pretty poorly for me. I think a heavier investment in Rhinos -might- help a little but even though we use ITC style terrain and dense coverage, I’m just honestly finding the majority of new codexes and strong builds annihilate me too quick to put real points into them.

 

I’m still feeling like points are just better spent elsewhere and keep troops to Cultists and Poxwalkers. Maybe for the sake of fluff I can get away with a few in a Rhino.

[McElMcNinja]

Now the termite sounds good too, I don't know how it was (if at) by the update. I assume you can still deploy it first turn, outside your deployment zone. Using that with the new puking DP and drones, that would give your opponent a lot of targets that he needs to take care of quickly. Somehow fit Morty in there and you've got a fast and deadly army.

[Plaguecaster]

Now the termite sounds good too, I don't know how it was (if at) by the update. I assume you can still deploy it first turn, outside your deployment zone. Using that with the new puking DP and drones, that would give your opponent a lot of targets that he needs to take care of quickly. Somehow fit Morty in there and you've got a fast and deadly army.

Damn I forgot that the Termite is set up at deployment and not deep striked in so it ignores the new Beta tactical reserves rule, that may prove very interesting and I'll have to try one out to see how they go

[Prot]

But if I understand the rules, you are still stuck inside for a turn, correct?

 

It’s not the end of the world ,and it does guarantee a fairly prime delivery location wise. The footprint is important too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Guys, it's totally deepstruck like normal. You deploy it and it's dudes in deepstrike, then they come in at the bed of the Movement phase. Unless they've updated its rules.

 

Prot I'll answer some of your points in a bit because they're interesting and deserve their own post

 

So recently I've been taking 2 5man squads of BlightLaunchers and one of plasma (champ has plasma) and the 8 bare bones bombardement marines in a rhino as more or less the core of my army. I have an arch contaminator lord in the middle of the ranged squads which are screened by 3 drones and a Daemon Prince. The 4 flying units provide a ton of early pressure and allow my marines to shoot a bit. I do think the grenade squad has survived so long because I only started using them a couple of games ago, but hosing down a tyrranofex and a ton of hive guard last game might start changing priorities. So I guess the tldr is that I've been having success with plaguemarines, but I think thats mostly because of the drone screen and target priority.

 

As for Blight Lords, theyre completely unviable for me right now regardless of gun. My buddy is taking 2-3 sporocysts a game so it's impossible to be anywhere important with all the mines floating about, eldar players take a ton of rangers and forward deploy them, Daemon players with nurglings.

[bozo69pd]

Yeah, it really is all about what you play against. If you aren't playing against the enemy codex top tier units, then sure take them. If I heard someone was playing mono Grey Knight codex, or pure Black Templars HECK YEAH I would take them. Oh wait those armies aren't good so barely anyone uses them.

[Dallas Drake]

I love hearing people's thoughts on PMs personally. I have been toing and froing over my Plague Marine builds, this weekend I have a mini tournament coming up - which list do people think is best and why? 2K regular Maelsttom missions.

 

List 1 - Cloud of Flies footslogging

[batallion] [Nurgle]

Daemon Prince w/talons
Poxbringer
Spitter Drone x 3
3 x Nurglings x 3

[batallion] [Death Guard]
Malignant Plaguecaster
Lord (Arch Contaminator)
Blightspawn x 2 (1 with Fulgaris Helm)
Blightbringer
Plague Marines x 15 (Launcher x 2, Flail x 2, Axe x 4, Champ w/Sword & plasma)
Cultists x 11
Cultists x 11
Spitter PBC x 2

13 CPs
2000 points

 

List 2 - Rhino Blightspawn bodyguards

[Outrider] [Nurgle]
Daemon Prince w/talons
Spitter Drone x 3
2 x Nurglings x 4

[batallion] [Nurgle]
Malignant Plaguecaster
Lord (Arch Contaminator)
Blightspawn x 2 (1 with Fulgaris Helm)
Biologus
Plague Marines x 5 (Launcher x 2)
Plague Marines x 5 (Launcher x 2)

Plague Marines x 6 (Flail x 2, Axe x 3, Champ w/Sword & plasma)
Cultists x 16

Rhino x 1
Spitter PBC x 2

9 CPs
1999 points

 

Basically, the 4 extra CPs I get in list 1 are there to throw Cloud of Flies on the PMs each turn as they stand behind the Drones/PBCs, plan is to advance 15 of them up as a blob using the Blightbringer with the Blightspawn and Lord/Caster all together. Alternative is 9 CPs and rely on the Rhino getting them close enough? Any thoughts/ideas? I can make small changes but nothing too massive as the game is this weekend. 2K against Astra, SMs, Nids and Eldar!

[Checkmate77]

Thanks for sharing DD,

 

Personally I like List 2 better.  I think the Rhino gives you a little more maneuverability, and the multiple PM units allow you occupy objectives better.

[bozo69pd]

You don't have a second DP instead of the lord? I vote list 2 I would add 1 more unit of nurglings though. I would cut cultists down to 10, they just die to moral anyways. I can't comment on biologus or blightspawn, never used them cuz I thought they seemed awesome looking but had useless rules.

[BlackTriton]

Blightspawn? useless? Have you seen his gun?

9" Assault 1d6 S2d6(avr 7) AP-3 D3

Although a bit random, it's average 3 shot of S7 AP-3 flat 3 damage! It's awsome!

Once you buy yourself that amasing weapon, in bonus he gives an anti fight aura (only use is to force the oponent to chose another charging unit to go first, so that you can interrupt) and a grenade that combo off the biologus.

 

The biologus dosent have any awsome weapon himself, but he enables a lot of mortal wounds. Plus S4 AP0 D2 is not bad, given how much you can have.

 

These character are what makes plague marine from an unasuming low potential unit to something potentially awesome. Plague marine act as body guard for the characters, and the caracters brings the pain. Or so I want to beleive.

 

 

I Too like the second list more if you're playing maelstrom. Though I have a soft spot for big unit of plagueMarine. Not having a biologus in your first list feels like a missed oportunity.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd always give the fugaris helmet to someone with a reroll 1 aura. 3" on the blightspawns radii is a big meh to me

[Dallas Drake]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, yeah I was leaning towards list 2 more, the Rhino does make it more likely I get those Blightspawn in range. bozo, blightspawn are terrific, last game I played them 1 took out a Ultramarines Dread in one turn, sure the weapon is random and you can roll bad but on average it is superb against tough targets the -3AP and 3 damage are nasty. I know the Nids player will bring lots of tough bugs and they will be key units for me I think.

Okay, I'll run list 2 and drop some cultists in favour of a few more Nurglings & try to get them 3 units of 3 instead. Not sure I can get a second DP in there without losing a Drone, I only have 1 DP model too so that's an issue for the weekend too. Thanks for the feedback guys!

[Praetoria]

I like list two ill be using a very tank heavy list for a tournament in July that is sort of similar to it.

 

Blightspawns are awesome, mine destroyed two grey knight dreadnoughts in two separate overwatch phases and then finished of a dreadknight across three turns.

[Checkmate77]

Quick question, and as it pertains to PMs I thought I'd just post it here vs. trying to start a brand new thread:

 

What are the rules for base sizes?  Specifically, as I have been playing Deathguard for a very long time, the bases on my PMs are all much smaller than they are on the new ones.  While this has never been a problem in friendly match-up games, what about in a tournament environment?  Is/Can this be a potential issue?

[Prot]

GW has said they don't have real base standards. The store I was just at said they've even asked this and there is no official set base, just use what you like within reason. They aren't even consistent themselves anymore. Some models ship with 40mm and the same type of unit might ship with a 50mm.

 

For your specific issue there is no problem using 25mms.

[Panzer]

There are no official rules for base sizes. Just go with the usually accepted "the base the model gets delivered with or larger" and you should be on the save side.

The new Plague Marines should have the regular Space Marine base size I think?