Adorondak Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 So I'm getting ready for, what I'm told, is the most competitive tournament in my area and I've built what I think is a pretty damn hard list but I'd like a little peer review. There are a few restircctions on list building. Absolutely no FW rules (FW models are fine, so long as you're using GW rules for them), and no flowcharting, if your army has a codex, only options in tje codex are allowed. The list is a battilion and a spearhead. Blood Angels Battilion HQ The Sanguinor Librarian Jump pack, force sword, bolt pistol, unleash rage & shield of sanguinias Elites Sanguinary Guard Ancient Boltgun, sword, death mask 10x Sanguinary guard 8x Swords, 2x powerfist, 8x boltgun and 2x plasma pistols3 Troops 5x scouts 4x bolter, heavy bolter 5x scouts 4x bolter, heavy bolter 5x scouts 4x bolter, heavy bolter 5x intercessor 5x boltrifle, grenade launcher, chainsword 5x intercessor 5x boltrifle, grenade launcher, chainsword Fast Attack 3x inceptors Assault bolters Flyer Stormhawk Interceptors 2x assault cannons, las-talon, skyhammer missile launcher Blood Angels Spearhead HQ Captain MC bolter, powerfist Heavy 5x devastators 2x lascannon, heavy bolter, plasma cannon 5x devastators 2x lascannon, heavy bolter, plasma cannon 5x hellblasters 5x plasma incinerator So any comments or questions would be greatly appreciated, this is a team tournament and the first time a team has asked me to join so I'd really like to do well and hopefully get invited back again next year! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Looks good. You are gonna run out of command points slot. Not sure what "flowcharting" referres to. Lists have to come from a single codex rather than following standard keyword restrictions? If so watch put for eldar. It will hamper imperial and chaos and that's about it. Eldar, Nids and demons and tau command spam will duke it out for top tables. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Looks good. You are gonna run out of command points slot. Not sure what "flowcharting" referres to. Lists have to come from a single codex rather than following standard keyword restrictions? If so watch put for eldar. It will hamper imperial and chaos and that's about it. Eldar, Nids and demons and tau command spam will duke it out for top tables. Good luck! Flowcharting is just the term for using the GW flowchart to use items listed in index that aren’t in the codex. For example, Sanguinary Priest with a jump pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcadian Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Hmmm kind of unconventional, which doesnt have to be bad I guess. But there's a reason Captain Smash is in every current BA list. Also no DC? Not sure about the plasma cannons either, I’d take MLs if just for the potential stratagem use. Troop slots look good. One more troop slot and one more HQ would net you another battalion though for more sweet CPs. Just some thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superwill Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Cool to see some differences, and I'm keen to see how it goes. Probably the least mobile BA list I've ever seen. I recently versed a guy at a tourney who played a bunch of footslogging troops (space wolves) including multiple squads of intercessors and hellblasters, and to be honest as soon as I saw his list I knew it was going to be an easy major victory for me. Shooting lists will only need a couple of turns to tear you apart. Your SG, Sanguinor, Ancient and Libby will drop and do something solid (so long as you remember to conga line them to the sanguinor rather than all charging the full distance), but with very little support they may not do enough on their own. You really only have one significant threat on turn one. You also haven't got many CPs to play with, which BA really need. And keep in mind that with your drop, make sure you put down the SG first and in front of characters to absorb any potential auspex scan or equivalent! You're making the banner a Relic, right? SG with 2+5++ and 5+FNP are hard to shift and will absorb most of your opponents shooting. But the problem is once they clear them out, the rest are still marching, whereas I'd probably prefer to have a bunch of other stuff in their face before they can catch their breath. But as some people say "quantity has a quality all of its own" and that's obviously the vibe you're going for. You've got so many points invested in troops that you almost just want to focus on sitting on objectives and use the suicide squad of SG+Sanguinor+Libby to take out something threatening. You also don't seem to have a lot of anti-tank, apart from a handful of lascannons on very easy-to-kill bodies with no excess wounds. Usually I would take either 10ish lascannons or 8ish thunderhammers (or a combination of the two or other similar weapons). The fists on the SG are a bit pointless, at D3 damage (and hitting at -1) they barely scratch vehicles. Keep them if you want, but they don't really count towards your anti-vehicle. If you're happy with the base of the list (and I think that as a very objective focused army it has potential) I'd say drop the powerfist from the Cpt for a Hammer and he 100% needs a JP, or if all you want is for him to be on devastator babysitting duty then drop all the gear as he won't be using it. If you can get more CPs by making it 2 batallions that'd be better. Good luck man, let us know how you go!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diagramdude Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 You have 3HQ, 3 elite, 5 troops, 3 FA, 3 heavy slots. If you really want these units I'd consider finding the brigade hidden in here. Brother Aether, Xenith and Karhedron 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 For the cost of two sanguinary guard, you could add another scout squad and get that brigade detachment. Some of the extra CP could go to getting the standard of sacrifice on the sanguinary ancient the standard of Sacrifice which would increase the durability of your sanguinary guard squad to make up for the lost bodies. Morticon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I'd lose the Stormhawk for another troop and 2 more FA, as mentioned - so you can get a Brigade. Maybe something cheap like a ML tac squad (or even ML Scouts squad) so you can use the Flakk Missile strat? Then use the rest of the points to try get 2 more FA slots - maybe something like attack bikes? These tweeks gain you 5 more CP than you'd have otherwise. I'd buff the commander too. It's a pity they're making "no--flowcharting" a thing, same with no-FW. The second is understandable from a legacy perspective, but the former is very much a part of the game. Adorondak and Brother Aether 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adorondak Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 I'd lose the Stormhawk for another troop and 2 more FA, as mentioned - so you can get a Brigade. Maybe something cheap like a ML tac squad (or even ML Scouts squad) so you can use the Flakk Missile strat? Then use the rest of the points to try get 2 more FA slots - maybe something like attack bikes? These tweeks gain you 5 more CP than you'd have otherwise. I'd buff the commander too. It's a pity they're making "no--flowcharting" a thing, same with no-FW. The second is understandable from a legacy perspective, but the former is very much a part of the game. Yeah, the no flowcharting is what threw me too. All my priests are rocking jump packs at the moment. If i add in DC, would that mean droping the SG all together? I haven't played many 8th ed games with my blood angels, but it seems like trying to fit both in would make each a little under strengthed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornithologist Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 I find that a unit of each is helpful for different tasks, so I like to have both for an all-comers list. Sucks about the flow-charting though. over all, I like the list. but I'm gonna parrot what others have said. just right between a battalion and a brigade, I'd move stuff around to either free up some points, or go all in on the other. Do you know anything about the tourny itself? missions, objective heavy, tactical objectives, meta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeltaRange Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Looks like a fun list but I'm not sure I'd call it uber competitive. I think you'll be disappointed with those Sang Guard. Firstly, you're putting all your eggs in one basket, and secondly you are trying to get a deep striking melee unit to work with buffs from other deep striking melee units. Let me tell you that doesn't work out well. I'd much rather have the buffer units buffing mobile shooty stuff like Inceptors or Stormravens and leave the melee units to do specific work themselves. In other words, I think you'll ultimately be disappointed in relying on your SG + character bomb to be your "trump card" to win games. There's just a lot that can go wrong with that plan. tychobi and Calistarius 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Looks like a fun list but I'm not sure I'd call it uber competitive. I think you'll be disappointed with those Sang Guard. Firstly, you're putting all your eggs in one basket, and secondly you are trying to get a deep striking melee unit to work with buffs from other deep striking melee units. Let me tell you that doesn't work out well. I'd much rather have the buffer units buffing mobile shooty stuff like Inceptors or Stormravens and leave the melee units to do specific work themselves. In other words, I think you'll ultimately be disappointed in relying on your SG + character bomb to be your "trump card" to win games. There's just a lot that can go wrong with that plan. This guy knows his stuff. His advice mirrors my experiences in tournaments. Assault elements are best cheap cheerful and expendable. "Trump card" or deathstar units die pretty quick in 8th MeltaRange 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adorondak Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 Well, I'm not planning on deepstriking anything. I'm also not planning on NOT deepstriking anything. The only thing i know about this tourny is the meta for the locallity it's in is very t'au/eldar/flyer heavy, so I was trying to build a list that could do a whole bunch of different things depending on what I encountered on the table. However, that being said after all the comments I have tried to rework the list into something a little better, though I think I may have failed entirely this time. This one is a brigade so and least I have a fair few CPs HQ Captain Jump pack, thunderhammer, bolt pistol Librarian Jump pack, force sword, bolt pistol The Sanguinor Warlord Troops 3 units of 5x scouts 4xboltguns, heavy bolter 5x scouts 5xcombat blade 2 units of intercessors Grenade launcher, 5x boltrifle, chainsword Elites 6x Sanguinary Guard 6x swords, 4x boltguns, 2x plasma pistol Sanguinary Ancient Sanguinary Novitiate Fast Attack 3 units of 1 attack bike with multimelta Heavy support 2 units of 5 devestators 2x lascannons, 1 missile launcher, 1 heavy bolter 5x hellblaster Plasma incinerator Flyer Stormhawk Interceptor 2x assault Cannon, icarus stormcannon, skyhammer missile launcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Very solid. List has the tools. Practice lots, lots of sleep the day before, bring snacks/lunch and a thermos of coffee, comfy shoes, play hard, be a gent, and most importantly have fun! " Upon wings of fire, we the Blood Angels, bring the vengeance of our Emperor with the grace and fury of Sanguinius. Die well." capt Tycho's battle prayer circa 2018terra Adorondak, Majkhel and Brother Aether 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Just note that the codex doesn’t have any options for the captain to replace his bolt pistol so whatever you take for a ranged weapon it’s in addition to a bolt pistol. That being said, The codex DOES say you can replace the MC Bolter with an item from the pistols list so you can have two bolt pistols plus the hammer if you want! *GUNSLINGER!!* Adorondak and Kallas 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Your second list looks good but I have one comment: - in my experience the sanguinor is expensive when you have that few units to buff. For armies that goes all in assault with 15DC and 10 sang guard he is golden (pun intended) but in a codex style list I have never found him to be worth his points. You can have an extra captain/ lieutenant and some points to put on extra bodies. Karhedron and Adorondak 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 (edited) You need two Thunder Hammer, Stormshield, Death-Company, Jump-Pack Captains :-D Edited February 28, 2018 by Ishagu Brother Crimson and Brother Aether 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adorondak Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 Had a practice game with the brigade against my buddies aeldari today. good game, lots of exciting moments. attack bikes were awesome, took out a pair of wave serpents and put a lot of hurt down on a wraithknight. devs and hellblasters took the brunt of long range firepower but I had good luck with my armor saves and they hung in long enough to bring the wraithknight down to his last wound. sang guard did about what I'd expected if not quite what I hoped. Samguinor is definetly a waste in this list, so here comes another captain smash. Real stars of the match were the combat blade scouts. but only because they took the last wound off the wraithknight on the charge, 2 of them survived long enough to charge a troop unit (guardians maybe? I don't know aeldari that well yet) and took 5 of them down before getting wiped. So, now that I can pick my own warlord trait, which do you think would work best with this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Crimson Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Artisan of war is more or less the default option. If you are up against a lot of psycher soul warden is pretty good too. Good thing most format allows you to see the opponent list before deciding. tychobi 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 You don't have much for psychic defense so I'd second Soul Warden. Alternatively the 6+++ re-rolling 1s is always good if you make your warlord DC as well (so it becomes a 5+++ re-rolling 1s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) Forsight+Death Visions is my go too, unless I need the captain to go after a LoW or a bunch of tanks, the 5+++ rerolling 1s is incredible sometimes. Soul Warden is incredibly good vs someone who relies on psykers, denying a single critical power can swing an entire game. I like the list overall, glad you had success with the mm attack bikes, I'm planning on trying them out. Edited March 2, 2018 by The Unseen Brother Aether 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adorondak Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 Lots of good tips and tricks so far! Thanks for all the awesome help so far guys! So after everything, here is the list I finally decided on. Which is good because I've got a little over a month to practice with it! As it stands I have 12cp and it comes out at exactly 2000pts (i always like when i can get it exact, somehow feels like it should be luckier that way) I'm going to have to try out different combinations of traits/relics before I decide which is best. I should also find out if we can change up traits and relics for each game, or if we have to pick them during list building and then are stuck with what we chose. I haven't been to an 8th tourny yet, is there any kind of standard ruling for that? HQ Captain Jump pack, thunderhammer, storm shield, warlord Captain Jump pack, thunderhammer, bolt pistol Librarian Jump pack, force sword, bolt pistol Troops 3 units of 5x scouts 4xboltguns, heavy bolter 5x scouts 5xcombat blade 2 units of 5xintercessors Grenade launcher, 5x boltrifle, chainsword Elites 7x Sanguinary Guard 6x swords, 1x axe, 5x boltguns, 2x plasma pistol Sanguinary Ancient Death mask Sanguinary Novitiate Fast Attack 3 units of 1 attack bike with multimelta Heavy support 2 units of 5 devestators 2x lascannons, 1 missile launcher, 1 heavy bolter 5x hellblaster Plasma incinerator Flyer Stormhawk Interceptor 2x assault Cannon, icarus stormcannon, skyhammer missile launcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Not sure about standard but ITC tournaments I have attended clearly stated in the scoring booklet to declare to your opponent before setup warlord trait, relics, and psychic powers. I would read the fine print of the actual tournament's rules and email the organizer to make sure. Many a victory have i missed by not reading the fine print! Oh and study how missions are scored, less surprises the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 But means declaring = deciding? Afaik you have to note such things on your list pre-tournament already, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornithologist Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 Some Tournies require deciding before the tourny some before each match. So its back to asking the organizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now