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Hunting for information on Unification-era/Terran XIX

Raven Guard XIXth Legion Unification Wars

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#1
Ryltar Thamior

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Right, exactly what it says on the tin, chaps. I'm looking for assistance correlating what information there is to be had about the XIXth Legion's Terran period and recruitment, iconography, culture, etc. 

You know - the sort of stuff required to bring a force to life. 

I'm presently tossing up what to do with five or so truescale Mk.IIIs I've just about finished ; and one of the possibilitis which suggested itself to me was a band of Terran-origin XIXth legionnaires who'd wound up (as with so many of their kind) separated from their parent Legion at some point subsequent to Unification. 

Now, this in and of itself would be pretty straight-forward. Formations such as the Ashen Claws provide ample testament to this kind of force being out there in the universe. 

But if you've seen many of our previous Vox Stellarum logs floating about the place, and in particular what we tend to do with Heresy and Unification era stuff when it comes to fleshing out the fluff behind our projects ... then you'll already probably see wehre this is going. 

I like tying my miniature efforts of Terran extraction to their earth-culture origins, both in terms of naming and more involved elements of the modelling and equipment. 

Thus far, this has resulted in North Indian inflected Loyalist VIIIth and IVth; as well as Umbral's excellent Tibetan Night Lords. 

Yet when i turned my attention to the XIXth Legion, things became rather more difficult to 'pin down'. What we know from the Third and Sixth Black Books is that many of the Terran XIXth were drawn from the "Xeric tribes of the Asiatic dustfields", proximate to the Yndonesic Bloc with whom they seem to have been in a continual state of armed conflict. We also can make an inference of a sort as to their relative propinquity towards the eastern frontiers of Ursh, due to their involvement in the pacification of same as Astartes as part of Unification, but this is just tha - an "inference" (based in no small part on a similar pattern observable elsewhere of some Legions' first outings being in conflict in their own general 'neighbourhood').

So what does this give us? 

Well, not terribly much. However, it is a start. 

Only hits I've found in relation to potential meanings or derivations for "Xeric" is the straightforward and direct use of the term in reference to rather arid biomes, including at the present time a swathe of territory running through northwest China and Central Asia to western India, Iran, and so forth. And no doubt, given the reduction in habitability of the ensuing 28,000 or so years of human history on Terra, these realms will have expanded a great deal. 

Although so too will the "Yndonesic Bloc" - which I have little doubt encompasses a far broader extent than modern-day Indonesia. 

And while this might straight-up suggest Mongols or something, I have something a little different in mind.

Specifically, the Scythians and/or [dependent upon which ethnographical sources you wish to rely upon] Saka peoples which inhabited much of that aforementioned expanse. 

So I guess what I'm asking is twofold - beyond what is stated above, what do we konw about these Xeric dust-tribes? Is there anything cited in the various Horus Heresy novels or other sources about them and other elements of the Terran XIX adt this point in time? 

And, further, do we have any information about unit-badges or other heraldry - the Black Book art has a rather bland "XIX" in a roundel; possibly supplemented by the six-armed starbursty sigil seen on the shoulderpad of some of the earlier Ashen Claws art (although this is cited as a unit-designator in the panel of tactical markings in Extermination so make of that what you will]. 

And, you know, anything else that may be useful :P 

 


Vox Stellarum efforts:
The Unyielding Adamanticores [truescale Astartes, auxilia, and sectorial AdMech; M37/38]
The Haunting Harii of Hvergelmir [truescale Astartes ... and associates]
The Unification Wars [truescale Thunder Warriors, (Proto-)Astartes, Army of Unification, Aegyptian-style Proto-Mechanicus raiders, etc.]
Combat Archaeology [Tomb Raiding for Fun & Prophet]
Horus Heresy [truescale loyalist IVth, VIIIth; Agents of the Sigillite; VIth; and so much more; and Umbral's amazing Traitors]
The Worlds-Wide Webway [(Dark) Eldar, Imperial Inquisition, an a-maze-ing realmweave of fear and wondermeant]
Thorian Inquisition [some rather different Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, true-scale Fire Hawks, Black Dragon, Inquisitor and associates, etc.]
For Whom The Great Bell Tolls Thrice [attempts to put the 'priest' back in 'tech-priest' with more-medieval mechanicus]
InquisiNecronMunda [the log that incepted it all - at least two Inquisitors, truescale Deathwatch, local enforcers, cultists, etc.]

#2
Race Bannon

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What about this?

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=EMwFE8w6_uI
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"Fully dressed in the ancestral Terminator Armour of their Chapter they rise to a new level of battlefield supremacy, a level where monstrous tanks are but playthings of a child, and where Terminators, Daemons and gods stalk as equals." -Thunder and Lightning, White Dwarf 116 (UK)
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#3
Marshal Rohr

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Book three males mentions of slave raids. That’s an angle I played up in conceptualozing my XIXth character.
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Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

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#4
LilShah

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I’d say go with a southern Indonesian (thinking Mollucas) and Aboriginal naming convention and slightly latinised it. Not only does it provide a nice fold and counterpart to the pseudo-Native American naming system of the old 2nd ed. Raven Guard but also allows the exploration of a very unknown area of Unification.

The image that the Xeric dust-tribes conjure for me is one of roving Mad Max-esque inhabitants of Australia pillaging and razing the cities of Yndonesian Bloc settlers who cross a dust bowl of a landbridge that’s formed due to the receding of the oceans. In return the Yndonesians set up retaliation expeditions in which they gather caravans of slaves from these irradiated mutants.
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#5
bluntblade

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Malchy has a very well-regarded proto-Carcharodons project, using RG models and drawing heavily on Maori imagery.
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Humble scrivener - alternate Episode IX attempt now complete!

 

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#6
Laughingman

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The original recruits were drawn from the Xeric tribes.... I assumed most died either fighting the tyrant Kalagann of Ursh or the Scouring of Lysithea. Might be worth weaving accounts of those engagements into your narrative...

 

Legion recruitment (at least by the accounts in the Horus Heresy Novels) was wasteful and industrial in scale (Archamus in praetorian of dorn was part of a aspirant class of hundards if not thousands, only 20 survived to become imperial fists ).  The process of the original inductees was probably less industrial (less hypnotic-indocrination) so they might actually remember being sons of Xeric tribes and the traditions that entitled.


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#7
Paradigm

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Keep in mind there were at least two separate times Corax send terrans away on nomad predation fleets.

First Arkhas Fal and an unknown chunk of the legion, probably a bit veteran top-heavy here, were sent away right after Corax takes control of the XIXth. These guys almost certainly become the Charcharadons. Reading the recent novel Red Tithe by Robbie MacNiven gives a lot of insight into this. If you have access to the Badab War books, they combine to all but confirm the Charcharadons are effectively what the XIXth were prior to Corax. (With the reasonable changes 10,000yrs in-universe brings) These guys early on probably have just mark 2 and some mark 3 armor and use OG XIXth legion markings. These guys are probably more akin to Luna Wolves or Sons of Horus in character than Raven Guard. They may still use the monikers "The Pale Nomads" or "The Dust Clad" at this point. They seem to feel less anger about their gene-father's rejection, and more sadness and hope they can somehow reconcile.

Then you have the second known banishment, when Corax sends the terran survivors of the Battle of Gate 42 away. It's implied this one is a large send off, as much as three somewhat depleted chapters worth of marines. We know that the 18th chapter the "Ashen Claws" are one of the three who are sent away. These guys are heavily influenced by Corax even if they retain a lot of their earlier character. They seem to use Raven Guard markings more or less, enough that the Ultramarines during the scouring couldn't immediately tell them apart even though they've switched their white veteran markings out for maroon ones. In the photos shown, the armor and dreadnoughts still look like raven guard. They have armor at least up to MK4 based on those same photos, but have mostly older mk2 and 3 per the description. These guys have nothing but disdain for Corax, and Horus, and also the Emperor for saddling them with the two.

In both cases they are described as a cruel hard-hitting but guerrilla-type force. They both favor decapitating strikes. They have a penchant for chain axes and power axes due to their Xeric heritage. They both tend to use a lot of fast attack over heavy support. Both probably use Deliverers. Terminators that are considered more elite than normal, armed to the teeth types. Think more like Justaerin, Gorgon, or Red Butchers vs regular Legion Terminators.

Working with the early XIXth was considered a death sentence for imperial army regiments as they perfected a tactic where they feed the army into the teeth of the meat grinder as a distraction so the legion can then hit the soft targets and end the overall conflict. This tells me that they not only have slaves, but have little regard for mere mortals either way.

As far as naming conventions go, the known terran marines are named Arkhas Fal, and Nerat Kirine. Arkhas Fal sounds a bit Turkic and Arkas is "behind" in turkish. Nerat Kirine is really close to Nerae Kirin which is basically "Aim Burning-Chimera" in Japanese. However the Chinese for Kirin is Qilin so it's close enough either way.

I'd stick with an asiatic, western china, central Asian theme. As far as legion culture goes, I don't think they are likely very akin to any ancient peoples. Think more modern Aral Sea basin, but after centures have caused all resources to vanish and the people have become desperate. I'd go with the mad max analogue, but not in australia, it should be in an asian desert.

Full disclosure, I'm building an Ashen Claw army as we speak, so I've already done a lot of this sort of research. My opinions being my own, I think they are pretty well founded.

Edited by Fortnight, 04 March 2018 - 10:40 PM.

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#8
Ryltar Thamior

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Excellent replies all; and thanks for the well considered responses. 

Particularly the detailed material you've put out, Fortnight. I'll certainly be checking out any logs you might have etc.

Having said that, i'm still a  bit stuck on what XIXth Legion iconography would look like in practice. I mean, there's definitely some clues, as has been intimated, in the Carcharodons' and arguably Ashen Claws' schemes - which is basically various shades of grey with potential tribal markings, splashes of reddish gore colour [either painted on or uh ... "fresh"] ; and additionally, the FW colour-plate of a Unification-era XIXth Legionary in Mk.II also appears dominated by greys and darker greys; with the main iconography on display being big XIX roundels on the shoulderpads, and the lightning-bolt-plus-skull or Raptor Imperialis badges commonly found in Unification era Astartes forces.

There may also be potential to do some ash-daubing on helmets and suchlike [kinda like how we use Vibhuti irl] to keep the "ash" theme going; and looking at the five almost-finished truescales i've got staring back at me atm [just needing to pick heads on three of them, and a few items of detailing like cabling, and such on all] , ti's going to be an interesting exercise striking the right 'balance' between teh Operators Operating Operationally vibe that seems to come through as a geneseed derived trait somewhat [albeit one strengthened considerably with the reunification with Corax], and the potnetial for 'barbarity' represented by skull-trophies etc., chains and such. 


Vox Stellarum efforts:
The Unyielding Adamanticores [truescale Astartes, auxilia, and sectorial AdMech; M37/38]
The Haunting Harii of Hvergelmir [truescale Astartes ... and associates]
The Unification Wars [truescale Thunder Warriors, (Proto-)Astartes, Army of Unification, Aegyptian-style Proto-Mechanicus raiders, etc.]
Combat Archaeology [Tomb Raiding for Fun & Prophet]
Horus Heresy [truescale loyalist IVth, VIIIth; Agents of the Sigillite; VIth; and so much more; and Umbral's amazing Traitors]
The Worlds-Wide Webway [(Dark) Eldar, Imperial Inquisition, an a-maze-ing realmweave of fear and wondermeant]
Thorian Inquisition [some rather different Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, true-scale Fire Hawks, Black Dragon, Inquisitor and associates, etc.]
For Whom The Great Bell Tolls Thrice [attempts to put the 'priest' back in 'tech-priest' with more-medieval mechanicus]
InquisiNecronMunda [the log that incepted it all - at least two Inquisitors, truescale Deathwatch, local enforcers, cultists, etc.]

#9
Paradigm

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The XIXth legion marine also has tribal markings on his vambraces. I looked at that plate for a very long time before I noticed, but I was paying a lot more attention the more bold markings. The tribal marks match the Carcharadons'.

Also, he has the Skull and lightning bolt, but the belt buckle eagle head is not a Raptor Imperialis. It's bird of prey iconography, apparently common in the early legion per the bolter snippet on the same plate.  Though I think there are some XIXth legion that use the Raptor Imperialis instead, I'd have to read the whole section again to double check.

He seems like he has everything but his squad number or marking, and it's pre Lysithea so no Jovian Rune.

 

I don't know what you take from the 7th battalion marking. It seems it could have turned into a chapter or company marking as the legion grew, but it's hard to say. 

 

Might check the Revilers, if there is any iconography fluff about them as they bear a similar icon to the skull and bolt, even if it is a veterancy mark in orgin. They seem to have their company mark on their knee, but I can't find anything specific about it, and they are also wholly post-corax. Could offer further clues.



 



#10
Laughingman

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Other ideas that might be worth throwing around:

 

Given the xeric cultures tendency to slave raid, some of the early XIX may have not been xeric tribesmen at all,  Rather sons of peoples who were cast down by XIX legion, and taken as both punishment and bounty by the legion. After all what better way to guard against recidivism then have the sons of potential oath-breakers be the metaphorical Headsmen if they misbehave... 

 

​As such these individuals would have adapted the legion culture, but may have a more morose attitude, especially if they were made to know the sins of their fathers. Similar to the early xvii legion legionaries.


Edited by Laughingman, 16 March 2018 - 11:30 AM.

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#11
Paradigm

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One thing I just noticed after digging through it again for my own research, the early XIXth used headhunters, or at least the 18th chapter had head-hunter companies. It says Shade-Captain Nerat Kirine personally led a company into the fight at Hell's Anvil. Though I don't think they are Headhunters like the alpha legion used, probably more akin to a proto Mor-Deythan. Or conversely, it's just a legion quirk that names some of their companies that way. Especially because the story hesitates the call them "Headhunters", and used the more descriptive term head-hunters.

I think it gives a decent justification to include a seeker squad, and might even justify them as kind of a signature unit for the early xixth along with elite "Deliverer" terminators. Could be interesting for your kill team to have one or more marines with scoped and upgraded bolters. 

Really digging this thread, it has me rethinking some of my Ashen Claws list building, and modeling plans.


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