What’s with all the bad battle reports lately?

[rendingon1+]

:-) Edited March 4, 2018 by rendingon1+

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well first of all, I was addressing the op.

 

I totally agree a poor grasp on rules makes for a worse quality bat rep.

 

And yea I also agree that one sided games are less fun to watch. Op was complaining mainly about two netlists, which again, subjective taste . But doesn't necessarily diminish the actual quality of the battle report. Which was mainly my entire point

[Hesh Kadesh]

There doesn't appear to be much characterization. I'm putting together a quick rundown of rules to allow us to fight a map based campaign over the course of a few months. The players (16, plus Games Master) have been split into 2 teams, traitors, and loyalists.

 

The first thing that we've done is said that armies come in building blocks: each player starts with 1 General (no named characters, must be Delegatus or Praetor, must declare a Rite of War, and roll a Warlord Trait: this may never be changed), who gives them 1000pts to battle with. This army must be written, and handed to the organiser, and may only be changed by spending your Generals Action in your allied Headquarters Sector. This army list must be legal. No Lords of War or named characters may be taken. Then, roll 6+D3: this is now your Generalship score. The overall Commander is the highest roll. If there are more than one who score the highest, each person makes a nomination for their chosen Commander, with the winner gaining the title Primus Inter Pares, or Warmaster's Chosen for the loyalists and traitors respectively, granting them: +1 GS (Generalship). If the winner is not decided after the vote, and nobody withdraws, a duel may be fought between each general: it is considered bloodless, so there are no ill effects!

 

In addition to that, you also get access to tokens, small, medium, and large, which you may purchase with Requisition, gained from holding sectors. 250, 500 and 1000pts respectively. A token cannot be fielded without a General. Each token may be used to pay for a number of units which may be added to the General, but the cost of the units taken in the token cannot exceed the value of the token. A unit of Terminators cannot be taken in a Spartan tank in a small token, for example. In addition, a General can only command a number of points equal to 250pts multiplied by their Generalship Score. Each player starts with 1 General, 1 Medium, and 2 small tokens.

 

At the minute, we have a White Scars Praetor, Khan Nergui, leading the Loyalists who managed to not only roll maximum on his GS dice, but beat 2 of his 3 of his opponents in the duels with a blow that would have decapitated them had he connected. With his duels complete, the final challenger, an Ultramarines Delegatus, who had already seen a Praetor of his legion beaten sojndly in a duel chose to withdraw. Meanwhile, in the traitor camp, only 2 challenged one another for the Warmaster's Favour, but utlimately, the support of 6 other generals placed the Alpha Legion Delegatus Chossiq sur Levantine as overall commander, leaving the Death Guard Praetor Dynalb to be cast aside.

 

Now, i know I'm a rarity, and lucky to have anywhere near 16 people willing to play Heresy, but we've already had more narrative and excitement with the roleplaying aspect. There's nothibg to say we can't RP with a Tournament Crushing list, but here we have people who are getting invested in their armies.

 

We've just finished for the night and my mate, Ben, who is GMing it, has just messaged me to say he has had someone already send them a storyline of their character up to this point. We've not even spoken about the system we're fighting over yet to the players. They have no information other than a name, and a brief knowledge of whats in game.

 

From that, we have people asking if rather than having narrative battles transitions, we can have BFG battles. And rather than having boarding actions resolved in BFG we have them resolved as per the effects of a Zone Mortalis Blood in the Void.

 

This, to me, is more interesting than generic netlist versus differently painted netlist that can be decided by both players rolling a d6 before deployment to see who is the winner. Mirror matches are boring, and even more boring are netlists vs a storytelling/whats cool army, because it shows the disparity betwen the two.

[Fangbanger]

batrep it ^^^

 

I think regards to current batrep, a lot just seem a little stale.

 

At the end of the day, it's just watching some dudes roll dice, or just tell you about the dice rolling they just did

 

It's not a very exciting platform generally which I feel is the issue.

 

I do watch them generally to see how particular units or army's perform, but often find it a bit of a soulless affair of late.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here’s a good one ...

 

https://youtu.be/GAAYKrX-8vQ

[Corswain]

That one wasn’t bad. Still got the ubiquitous two Leviathans and a Spartan, but at least they were on different sides. :)

I like miniwargaming but I miss Steve, Josh, Matt and (I know this might be controversial) Quirk doing 30K reports though. More presenters with different Legions goes a long way towards game diversity and means much more frequent videos.

Is there more going on in the vault? I’m not a member so maybe that’s why I don’t see much.

[NemoVonUtopia]

There is an additional batrep for each free one but other than that no.

[depthcharge12]

Here’s a good one ...

 

That one was quite good. Luca made some silly tactical errors but on the whole was enjoyable. There was a Spartan and 2 leviathans but (like I mentioned) the lists were very fun and the units were not all in one list. One could argue Russ is cheesy but that’s due to FW incompetence and felt in no way deliberate in that gentleman’s list.

 

It was good to actually see people use legion traits and units (finally saw someone experiment with sigma & portents as well as dark channeling). I’m surprised people haven’t tried adapting to the arms race by utilizing more infantry like these lists to reduce the impact of leviathans.

[Hellrender]

Thats most likely because of another thing in the arms race that is common, rapier phospex quad launchers. So bringing more PA infantry isn't really going to help in that case.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Hellrender

[Reclusiarch Darius]

30k channel now has its own website dude, you need to go on there to see all the content. He only puts out like one free game a month on his Youtube. 

 

As far as HH batreps..yeah Youtube is pretty slim pickings. I think it comes down to the amount of effort involved turns most people off, and 40k has better appeal.

 

As far as the meta goes, it's very group dependent. Even events by the same groups can differ depending on their preferences as TO's. As others have mentioned, HH is way more self-regulating than 40k. If you go to a HH event, you generally expect to fight certain lists and units, but increasingly (at least in my little corner of the world) it's a free range gaming style. Basically, you pick your opponents on the day. That way, if you don't want to fight Talons or whatever, you don't have to. So if you bring a list no one is happy to fight (which would be weird because that basically never happens), you'll be left out in the cold by the community essentially. Whilst in 40k, there is more of an expectation to take on whatever you end up facing.

 

I think if you're seeing a lack of variety in your local meta, it mainly comes down the players. In our case, I see lots of different Legion builds. Sure, almost everyone owns a Spartan or Leviathan, and I rarely see a Legion list without Contemptors. But outside of that, there is a lot of differences. 'Pride' is popular but people are getting bored with Sniper Vets. Pods and mechanised lists are around, and we have a new Death Guard player who runs a Reaping list of basically all infantry successfully. Solar Auxilia is pretty popular too, and there is usually at least one Militia list at events. Mechanicum seems to the 2nd most popular faction which is cool, as I get to fight the mirror more often.

 

Encouraging army variety is difficult but it all depends on what kind of event you want to have. For example, we sometimes remove Primarchs and special characters from events for narrative reasons (ie they're not fighting in backwaters during the Heresy), and increasingly I feel like making Talons an Allies-only option (ie take something else as your primary list). Once the Talons army book comes out I'd see how it shakes out and maybe keep that restriction if they don't tone down certain things/jack up points costs a bit more. It happened with Mechanicum so it's not unreasonable to expect that.

 

The main issues I see in the meta are people being unimaginative and Talons being insane in certain scenarios (ZM and Centurion are a joke for Custodes, they just run through the infantry-heavy Legion lists you see in those settings). I actually don't see quad mortar spam anymore, I think Talons have made it largely irrelevant (also I think stuff like Ironfire has weaknesses to be exploited that Talons don't really have).

[Corswain]

Good points Darius. Thanks for the tip on 30K channels website too, I didn’t know about that.

 

It’s a tough one to balance, every meta list has a Spartan and a Leviathan but I doubt there are too many people out there who don’t want to own one of each. I do, they’re cool!

And if you purchase one, naturally you’re going to use it in a game. That’s fair.

 

Two sides to every argument as always but it does become a little tiring, seeing so much repetition on youtube. No real bother for me as I only watch (sort of) while painting, so I’m not real bothered by what I’m seeing as long as it’s moderately entertaining.

[depthcharge12]

Good points Darius. Thanks for the tip on 30K channels website too, I didn’t know about that.

 

It’s a tough one to balance, every meta list has a Spartan and a Leviathan but I doubt there are too many people out there who don’t want to own one of each. I do, they’re cool!

And if you purchase one, naturally you’re going to use it in a game. That’s fair.

 

Lol that's a non-issue universally.

 

 

I had no idea 30k channel had its own website, just the channel-x. I suppose that's due to YT getting its panties in a bunch like many of the other channels (TTT, Winters, etc).

 

 

I'd just like to make it clear that my gaming group has no issues and everyone gets along just fine. But it's not always convenient to have games whenever I want and it is enjoyable to watch other legions play.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don't pay to watch batreps - to me that is absurd. Anyways Lukas did a good job... I did not spot any mistakes and his opponent had a great time.

[Corswain]

I don't pay to watch batreps - to me that is absurd.

I tend to agree with that. Guerrilla Miniature Games is the only one that I’ve considered paying for but Ash hasn’t done any Heresy for months.

 

At this point, I’ll keep searching for free stuff on youtube and share anything good, I guess.

[Ishagu]

I can't stand Ash for some reason, and as a result I can't ever watch that channel.

 

As for the content generally knocking around on the web, it has really slowed down unfortunately. Custodes killed my local 30k Meta and then 8th came out so I've not played HH in a year :-/

MWG still do the occasional batrep but I've really started to dislike their format and the way the film them.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Good points Darius. Thanks for the tip on 30K channels website too, I didn’t know about that.

 

It’s a tough one to balance, every meta list has a Spartan and a Leviathan but I doubt there are too many people out there who don’t want to own one of each. I do, they’re cool! 

And if you purchase one, naturally you’re going to use it in a game. That’s fair. 

 

Two sides to every argument as always but it does become a little tiring, seeing so much repetition on youtube. No real bother for me as I only watch (sort of) while painting, so I’m not real bothered by what I’m seeing as long as it’s moderately entertaining. 

 

No worries dude yeah he did make an announcement video but that was like halfway through last year.

 

Yeah totally agree, it's why I watch 30k channel because he tries to get on different lists and matchups. Also David tends to try to make custom scenarios so it's not always about killing. I think he's pretty successful at making interesting games.

I had no idea 30k channel had its own website, just the channel-x. I suppose that's due to YT getting its panties in a bunch like many of the other channels (TTT, Winters, etc).

 

Yeah David shut it down a while ago. He never really said why (IIRC, I could be wrong), but I suspect it was something like that. I know Winters has got in hot water with GW legal about his codex reviews for example, so he's changed his videos accordingly. So I think the move was mainly so he could have full creative control.

As for the content generally knocking around on the web, it has really slowed down unfortunately. Custodes killed my local 30k Meta and then 8th came out so I've not played HH in a year :-/

MWG still do the occasional batrep but I've really started to dislike their format and the way the film them.

 

Hmm maybe try and create events, get the community rolling again? I won't lie, Inferno did cause a dip in my neck of the woods too, but it's kinda back to normal now. If you restrict Talons to Allies, you might create a resurgence. Personally, my only gripe with Talons is the unkillable Shield-Captain, the rest of their stuff is annoying but it can be killed/dealt with. Take away the shield from the Shield-Captain (the 3++ is achievable in every other army, it's the re-roll that makes him absurd), maybe push them to Allies. See if that helps reinvigorate stuff. Oh, and for the love of the Emperor, do not run Centurion or ZM games with Talons. It's horrific.

 

MWG...they're nice guys, but terrible players. I actually cringe so hard watching their 30k batreps, even when their guests aren't turbo-autists. Its especially annoying because their main 30k guy has Mechanicum but chronically misplays them. I don't watch their 40k content because Winters makes better ones.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Reclusiarch Darius

[SkimaskMohawk]

I can't stand Ash for some reason, and as a result I can't ever watch that channel.

 

As for the content generally knocking around on the web, it has really slowed down unfortunately. Custodes killed my local 30k Meta and then 8th came out so I've not played HH in a year :-/

MWG still do the occasional batrep but I've really started to dislike their format and the way the film them.

I knew him when he was a regional manager for gw...I definitely can relate to not liking the guy lol

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What is he like in RL ?

[depthcharge12]

 

I can't stand Ash for some reason, and as a result I can't ever watch that channel.

 

As for the content generally knocking around on the web, it has really slowed down unfortunately. Custodes killed my local 30k Meta and then 8th came out so I've not played HH in a year :-/

MWG still do the occasional batrep but I've really started to dislike their format and the way the film them.

I knew him when he was a regional manager for gw...I definitely can relate to not liking the guy lol

I feel like I’ve heard that before from someone else too. He seems like the pushy car salesman type. I like some of your batreps, and while I like the fear the flanks rule, I fear that it dynamically changes the game, especially for certain legions.

 

 

For those looking for the 30k website in question:

 

http://www.the30kchannel.com

 

Looks like they have a free trial period and this month’s batrep has DA I’m considering trying it out :D

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd say that's a pretty fair criticism of fear the flanks. I like how you really have to consider deployment with gun lines and that it allows fragile melee units to have some more options, but it really does make Master of Ambush one of the absolute best warlord traits. Raven guard, alpha legion and night lords also get a huge boost, but I like how things like black reaving and maru skara can function.

[depthcharge12]

I'd say that's a pretty fair criticism of fear the flanks. I like how you really have to consider deployment with gun lines and that it allows fragile melee units to have some more options, but it really does make Master of Ambush one of the absolute best warlord traits. Raven guard, alpha legion and night lords also get a huge boost, but I like how things like black reaving and maru skara can function.

I think that’s what FW intended but it just never materialized.

 

I was honestly considering how crazy a Horus list would be as he can outflank anything from reserves! But I’m sure you guys regulate it to a degree.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Oddly enough neither of our SoH players have ever tried anything like that. They usually like the spartan or deepstrike to leverage death dealers.

 

I think the craziest that's ever happened was a praevian with vorax or a chaplain leading some custodes

[depthcharge12]

Oddly enough neither of our SoH players have ever tried anything like that. They usually like the spartan or deepstrike to leverage death dealers.

 

I think the craziest that's ever happened was a praevian with vorax or a chaplain leading some custodes

Lol have Horus outflank a Leviathan talon, Glaive, or a terminator blob. He was Creed before Creed was cool.

[civsmitty]

30k army checklist:

 

preator with p.blade or a primarch

10 x terminator unit for them

Spartan as a ride

 

Leviathan in pod. Drill and claw or Drill an Melta

 

vets x 2 (cos pride of the legion)

 

Thudd guns with shatter shells

 

whirlwind Scorpius

 

Fire raptor

 

Why have cotton, when you can have silk?

 

Funny enough, the popularity of these lists are why I built my Aloha Snackbar list. 

 

Suicide recon marines!