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Warhammer 20K


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#51
bluntblade

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It's worth noting that for example, the likes of the Sicaran might have been a typical tank for, say, 18K, but antiquated by 20K and superseded by grav-propelled Castigator Titans.

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#52
Trevak Dal

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I got the impression from perpetual that many of the weapons deployed by both the men of iron and the human federation that opposed them made strategic weapons of 40k appear to be a joke by comparison. Sun snuffers, weapons the Size of Saturns rings, (I did some backhand math once to come up with a mass of such a object, it was a silly number), entropic engines, mechnavores, etc. Mercifully none of these weapons survived the age of strife (which is also silly, objects that are 66,000 km in length don't disappear on a Whim)

Sounds like a Halo Ring.

There are a ton of space hulks...and that's not discounting them hitting planets or black holes.

I think black holes are criminally underused at least by the Inquisition as a means of getting rid of stuff that can't be destroyed by any other means (captured daemon weapons and artifacts).

Chuck them down in a shuttle with a servitor flying it right into the singularity. Nobody, (except MAYBE the Necrons) can get it without getting sucked in too.

Edited by Trevak Dal, 09 March 2018 - 08:33 PM.

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#53
Eddie Orlock

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I think black holes are criminally underused at least by the Inquisition as a means of getting rid of stuff that can't be destroyed by any other means (captured daemon weapons and artifacts).

While black hole fluff hasn't been heavily developed in the setting, I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to suggest they have warp-space interactions. Maybe the singularity 'pierces the veil'? Never mind that black holes do funky things with time dilatation and related relativistic physics that most people have a hard time thinking about because it's so alien to human experience. 'How long does it take to fall into a black hole?' can be a complicated question.

All that sets aside the notion that summoned Demons only really pretend to play by the rules of the material universe. It's why they get invulnerable saves, right? So, what's to say that by throwing the accursed object in the black hole you've not just flung it somewhere where the only things that can get it are they very bad actors you're trying to keep it away from?

This is just speculation though, I think the real reason is that black hole physics is still relatively out there on the cutting edge and scientific opinion on it changes somewhat regularly as we refine our understanding, so the authors have wisely let it alone rather than risk becoming obsolete. It's safer to write about space-magic than it is science.
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#54
templargdt

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The black hole thing has always bothered the daylights out of me as well. 

"Look at this awful demonically possessed sword.  We need to make sure it causes no further problems."
"Drop it down a black hole?"
"Psssh.  What are you stupid?  No, we'll give it to a Grey Knight who is constantly battling it's attempt to corrupt him."
"Um, cool.  So we're going to basically lock that guy away in the most secure prison in the Imperium, right?"

"Ha, no, we'll keep him in active combat battling Demons."

I love Warhammer but sometimes the stupid, it burns.


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#55
Moonreaper666

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The black hole thing has always bothered the daylights out of me as well.

"Look at this awful demonically possessed sword. We need to make sure it causes no further problems."
"Drop it down a black hole?"
"Psssh. What are you stupid? No, we'll give it to a Grey Knight who is constantly battling it's attempt to corrupt him."
"Um, cool. So we're going to basically lock that guy away in the most secure prison in the Imperium, right?"
"Ha, no, we'll keep him in active combat battling Demons."
I love Warhammer but sometimes the stupid, it burns.


Wouldn't the Blade of Antwyr just randomly teleport if you throw it into a black hole?

That sword has been known to use Warp Teleportation


Oh yeah, that Daemon Sword as well as Drach'nyen are both Indestructible

#56
Urriak Urruk

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One of the only things that would interest me in 20k is what remains of the Old Ones, and by extension their client species the Slann. Essentially would just be Space Lizardmen, but considering how 40k is often just taking WFB races and making them Sci-Fantasy I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet.

 

Jupiter_Ascending_Concept_Art_ASC_Cha_Gr

 

Tbh though I'm more interested in GW exploring the Unification Wars on Terra than 20k. Proto-Astartes, Thunder Warriors, and all that Techno-Barbarians in a Mad Max-like setting? Count me in.


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#57
templargdt

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The black hole thing has always bothered the daylights out of me as well.

"Look at this awful demonically possessed sword. We need to make sure it causes no further problems."
"Drop it down a black hole?"
"Psssh. What are you stupid? No, we'll give it to a Grey Knight who is constantly battling it's attempt to corrupt him."
"Um, cool. So we're going to basically lock that guy away in the most secure prison in the Imperium, right?"
"Ha, no, we'll keep him in active combat battling Demons."
I love Warhammer but sometimes the stupid, it burns.


Wouldn't the Blade of Antwyr just randomly teleport if you throw it into a black hole?

That sword has been known to use Warp Teleportation


Oh yeah, that Daemon Sword as well as Drach'nyen are both Indestructible

 

None of the Grey Knight books I have mention teleportation of the sword as I recall.  But hey, it's GW, so sure, why not.  This is not hard sci fi.  Even if you dropped the sword down a singularity and had it reduced to literally nothing, I'm sure ADB could write a fantastic chapter of novel where some chaos guy commits some horrible act of murder and *poof* the sword appears out of the black hole.

Science Fantasy really is the right designation.


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#58
Skaorn

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One of the only things that would interest me in 20k is what remains of the Old Ones, and by extension their client species the Slann. Essentially would just be Space Lizardmen, but considering how 40k is often just taking WFB races and making them Sci-Fantasy I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet.
 
Jupiter_Ascending_Concept_Art_ASC_Cha_Gr
 
Tbh though I'm more interested in GW exploring the Unification Wars on Terra than 20k. Proto-Astartes, Thunder Warriors, and all that Techno-Barbarians in a Mad Max-like setting? Count me in.


The Jupiter Ascending dragon people! All that movie needed was a soundtrack by Queen.

I agree the Slann would be a great army to include. They might make a good counterpoint to the Eldar, they know what's coming and are trying to stop it. Also genetically engineered Saurus with wings should be a thing.
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#59
bluntblade

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One of the only things that would interest me in 20k is what remains of the Old Ones, and by extension their client species the Slann. Essentially would just be Space Lizardmen, but considering how 40k is often just taking WFB races and making them Sci-Fantasy I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet.


Old Ones were gone from the Galaxy, one way or another, when the Necrons turned on the Ctan.

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#60
Urriak Urruk

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One of the only things that would interest me in 20k is what remains of the Old Ones, and by extension their client species the Slann. Essentially would just be Space Lizardmen, but considering how 40k is often just taking WFB races and making them Sci-Fantasy I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet.


Old Ones were gone from the Galaxy, one way or another, when the Necrons turned on the Ctan.

 

 

The Necron codex says that yes, but in Xenology it says that the Hrud believe in an Old One named Qah, who only left 500,000 years ago (after the Necrons had gone into hibernation). So a handful of Old Ones surviving is not completely impossible.



#61
SickSix

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One of the only things that would interest me in 20k is what remains of the Old Ones, and by extension their client species the Slann. Essentially would just be Space Lizardmen, but considering how 40k is often just taking WFB races and making them Sci-Fantasy I'm surprised this hasn't happened yet.

Jupiter_Ascending_Concept_Art_ASC_Cha_Gr

Tbh though I'm more interested in GW exploring the Unification Wars on Terra than 20k. Proto-Astartes, Thunder Warriors, and all that Techno-Barbarians in a Mad Max-like setting? Count me in.


That picture is awesome! Where is it from?

And I am still disappointed that we don't have space lizardmen in 40k.

#62
Skaorn

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It's from Jupiter Ascending

The movie actually made me okay with dragon people as playable races in D&D.

Edited by Skaorn, 11 March 2018 - 12:17 AM.

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#63
Kinstryfe

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The black hole thing has always bothered the daylights out of me as well.
"Look at this awful demonically possessed sword. We need to make sure it causes no further problems."
"Drop it down a black hole?"
"Psssh. What are you stupid? No, we'll give it to a Grey Knight who is constantly battling it's attempt to corrupt him."
"Um, cool. So we're going to basically lock that guy away in the most secure prison in the Imperium, right?"
"Ha, no, we'll keep him in active combat battling Demons."
I love Warhammer but sometimes the stupid, it burns.


Wouldn't the Blade of Antwyr just randomly teleport if you throw it into a black hole?
That sword has been known to use Warp Teleportation
Oh yeah, that Daemon Sword as well as Drach'nyen are both Indestructible

None of the Grey Knight books I have mention teleportation of the sword as I recall.  But hey, it's GW, so sure, why not.  This is not hard sci fi.  Even if you dropped the sword down a singularity and had it reduced to literally nothing, I'm sure ADB could write a fantastic chapter of novel where some chaos guy commits some horrible act of murder and *poof* the sword appears out of the black hole.
Science Fantasy really is the right designation.

For all we know some daemon weapons operate under daemon rules. Throw it into a singularity and you destroy the weapon but the daemon is just thrown back into the warp, until it works its way into realspace again. Maybe we need a story about the Inquisition holding some chaos relics near a singularity, and chaos forces trying to push the space-thingy in so they can be destroyed and resummoned or bound until new weapons.
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#64
Brother Tyler

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I'm moving this over to Special Projects.

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#65
NoPoet

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Er, I've been working on a project called 20K for years teehee.gif

 

In fact I have already written 20,000 words of the "first" story in the series, On Eagle's Wings, although I barely looked at it for the last 2 years. I also have a number of other stories already online (mainly on Dakkadakka) or in progress. I haven't got much 20K stuff online because it is begging to be re-written into an original universe so I can sell it! 

 

I also wonder when GW will make an official "Golden Age" or "Dark Age" series and render current fanfic redundant.


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#66
Ishagu

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Here's the thing:

A big complaint about 30k being fleshed out revolves around the loss of intrigue and mysticism involving the subject matter.
We now know what took place in such great detail that the events and characters no longer feel like the stuff of legend.

Do people remember when the only info we had on Primarchs was stuff like how the Emperor had a "dragon catching contest" with Vulkan? Or how about the duel between Russ and the Lion that levelled mountains? It was more like mythology than a historical account.

If course the positives include a great model line, lots of interesting and detailed lore and a host of great characters we've grown to love.

What is Warhammer 20k,exactly? Is it just another wargame with less interesting/more generic scifi units? Does a detailed account of events improve the mythology of Warhammer 40k, or does it take away the intrigue from a period steeped in mystery?

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#67
bluntblade

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The references we have to the Dark Age and Age of Strife suggest that the scale wouldn't really fit on the tabletop. You have single AI machines the size of Saturn's rings, which snuff out stars and devour whole chunks of planets.

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#68
Kolgrim DeathHowl

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To be honest it sounds like a pretty cool idea, I had no idea what 20k was when I clicked on this. But I'm intrigued, going to read more about it. Just got back in the hobby after 20 years and then got into Necromunda for the first time, and now this there's so much interesting stuff related to the 40k universe.


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#69
wammnebu

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A couple of Ideas:

 

  1. One thing would be that, given what we see of the technological relics, The human government of the Dark Age of Technology is probably supposed to be a pastiche of various Golden Age Sci-Fi Utopias. 
  2. So one neat way to show 20k would be to show the universe through the eyes of a Flash Gordon/Buck Rodgers/Captain Picard -esque hero (complete with the haughtiness, and tendency to lecture and bombast), and have him watch as his ideology and utopia unravels from the combined assaults of the birth of slaanesh, men of iron, and increasing Warp Activity.
  3. The seeds of 30k/40k could be seen in the rims of the galaxy, maybe a planet like Baal Secundus was once a terra-like planet, but our 20k hero goes to see what happened to them, and they go through in 20k what terra did in 30k.
  4. Two factions that something that could be done with are the Laer  and the Jokarro. Perhaps you could show the Laer as a proud impressive civilization before Slaanesh slowly but surely transforms the race into an unrecognizable slave race.
  5. I could imagine the Jokarro were actually apes, that advanced humanity partially uplifted as a way to get around making another sentient AI to help maintain complicated equipment. Perhaps you can throw a Planet of the Apes reference in, and imply that there was an Ape Revolt at one point, which is why humanity only partially uplifted these apes into being Savants.
  6. The Government in general could reflect the Emperor of Mankind's great vision for the galaxy, complete with his callousness and hypocritical authoritarianism.
  7. An interesting Alternate origin for the Mechanicus could be to watch the Technicians of Mars slowly have a collective mental breakdown as they are cutoff from the rest of the galaxy, leading to the cult of the Omnissiah.
  8. What do you plan to do with the Interex Races? Maybe make them an irrelevant backwater of this great human empire (thus allowing them to weather the collapse)
  9. I wrote up an outline of a group of humans that originated from the dark age of technology, would it be useful? One of the ideas of it was that Catachan and Fenris were early attempts at Terraforming, and they (while pleasant during the Dark Age of Technology) evolutionarily spiraled out of control thanks to the genetic shortcuts scientists made to rapidly populate these planets.

Edited by wammnebu, 02 April 2020 - 07:22 PM.

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#70
wammnebu

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The references we have to the Dark Age and Age of Strife suggest that the scale wouldn't really fit on the tabletop. You have single AI machines the size of Saturn's rings, which snuff out stars and devour whole chunks of planets.

 

These men of Iron were beaten, so clearly 20k humans had some comprable tech. Maybe its time to develop rules for a Adeptus Titanicus version of Battlefleet Gothic?


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#71
wammnebu

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I got the impression from perpetual that many of the weapons deployed by both the men of iron and the human federation that opposed them made strategic weapons of 40k appear to be a joke by comparison.  Sun snuffers, weapons the Size of Saturns rings, (I did some backhand math once to come up with a mass of such a object, it was a silly number), entropic engines, mechnavores, etc. Mercifully none of these weapons survived the age of strife (which is also silly, objects that are 66,000 km in length don't disappear on a Whim)

 

Possibilities:

  • Some of these devices do exist, but no one knows it. Maybe the Broken ring on Gorgon was one of these weapons, but it was just assumed to be a habitat or something. Maybe that one inside out planet that is a AdMech forgeworld is one of these superweapons, or even just a fragment of one.
  • Much like the Collosseum and Later Constantinople, as Human Civilization was collapsing towards the age of strife, these mega weapons were broken and salvaged for more usable equipment. So what remains of these weapons is unrecognizable.
  • The Eldar decided that humans are too stupid and dangerous to have such weapons, so the Craftworlds went out of their way to make sure as many of these devices disappeared as they could.
  • They are sitting on GW's MacGuffin shelf for future plots.

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