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Help a heretic build a loyal army

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#1
Juggernut

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I graduate at the end of this month, and my sweet ol’ grandma is going to throw some money my way. The caveat is that I actually have to spend it frivolously, and can’t save it. Sounds like the most obvious excuse to buy more plastic crack than any I’ve ever heard in my life.

My chaos collection is :cuss huge. I don’t really “need” any more. I want a more or less equivalent army for my wife to use when we play against each other (we’ll switch off), and as much as I like Templars and Blood Angels, they’re too similar to my World Eaters. I really like the philosophy of the Salamanders, as well as their color scheme, skin color, and sigil.

So then, I need help figuring out what the “good” units are.

I’ve always wanted to buy the Vulkan He’stan model, he’s among the best sculpts in the game IMO, so I think I’ll be building and running a first company army.

I’m probably going to buy the Imperial half of the Dark Imperium box for a good/cheap start, and from there... I don’t know.

I like the idea of hammernators as well as vanguard vets with thunder hammers/shields. Easy to build aggressors with flamers, too. A Salamanders contemptor and a leviathan as well.

What else? What would you get?
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#2
Kaiser Rude

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Heavy weapons to take advantage of rerolls.
Throw 1 in tactical squads. Devastator Squads are great paired with an Ancient.
You absolutely need scouts for board control.
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#3
Juggernut

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I was thinking scouts for sure, to counter my deep striking bloodletters and Dreadclaws. Maybe 2 units? Then maybe the 2 units of intercessors from DI could fill out the rest of the troops requirement. I also have a bunch of mk IV Marines that are as of yet unpainted, so if I want tacticals I could make it happen.

Thinking about a storm eagle, though a stormraven would be cheaper. I just can’t stand the way it looks, but being able to drop a dreadnought and terminators is pretty sweet. 

 

I just found out Chapterhouse Studios makes an insanely good upgrade kit that makes the stormraven look good, but I don't think they're in business any more. Still, I may be able to pull off a passable reproduction with plasticard... hmm...


Edited by Juggernut, 04 March 2018 - 04:33 PM.

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#4
Kaiser Rude

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2 units of scouts should do the trick. I run 3-4 units but you can work with 2 as a minimum.
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#5
Juggernut

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Do you run any other troops? Do you use sniper rifles, bolters, or pistol/ccw on your scouts?


Edited by Juggernut, 04 March 2018 - 05:27 PM.

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#6
Kaiser Rude

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4 x 5 man scouts with bolters.
2 x 5 man tacticals with a lascannon in each.

I don’t think sniper scouts are worth the points. I’d consider close combat on 2 of the squads but I just run boltguns. They are screen units to extend my deployment zone and protect against deep striking armies. They die. I keep them cheap.

The tacticals can hold down an objective or just sit in cover using their chapter tactics to keep that lascannon pumping very efficiently.
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#7
Juggernut

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Hmm, sounds tactically sound but that’s more scouts than I think I’ll end up using.

What do you think of primaris units?

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#8
Aothaine

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Kaiser Rude has the load out correct. 

 

It is one of the best loadouts you can field in the troop slot right now. Other option is to  swap out two scout squads for two intercessor squads (5-man with power sword and grenade launcher). 

 

I can offer a lot of different ideas and unit choices but can you give us an idea of what your aiming for? How competitive do you want your lists to be? Are you okay with mixing Primaris with old marines? 


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"Death before Dishonor! No Mercy!" - Captain Donatello of the Roaring Lions!

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#9
Juggernut

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Not anything tournament-style, but still potent.

 

Loyalist vs. Chaos: power armor, terminators, dreadnoughts/contemptors facing off against each other

 

World Eaters: Berzerkers dropping down in Dreadclaws and in Rhinos, Khârn

Word Bearers: tons of power armor, sorcerers

 

and then add Renegades & Heretics (run as Astra Militarum when used as a stand-alone list) and Daemons of Khorne as occasional opponents/mixed in.

 

Models that can go toe-to-toe with those lists.

 

I'm more or less okay with mixing in some Primaris units. I'm thinking Hellblasters in particular. Maybe Inceptors. I'd be willing to entertain suggestions/information regarding the other units other than Reivers.


Edited by Juggernut, 05 March 2018 - 09:45 PM.

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#10
Aothaine

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Hellblasters are a great choice. They usually get shot off the table before they can shoot though. Most people have found plasma Inceptors a better option as they can deep strike and stay protected until they fire. Hellblasters really need the tank that can carry them to help them stay alive.

 

Most people that have done testing state that Plasma Inceptors are really good and usually make their points back as they can prevent being shot off the board before they can fire as they can deepstrike.

 

Take a captain with jump pack and thunder hammer. Give him the following: Salamanders' Trait (+1S), Salamanders' Relic (+1T), a librarian to case might of heroes on him for +1S/T/Attack. Now you have a strong beatstick. You can also do this with a Primaris Captain to make him more durable and 


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"Death before Dishonor! No Mercy!" - Captain Donatello of the Roaring Lions!

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#11
Juggernut

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Hellblasters are a great choice. They usually get shot off the table before they can shoot though. Most people have found plasma Inceptors a better option as they can deep strike and stay protected until they fire. Hellblasters really need the tank that can carry them to help them stay alive.

 

Most people that have done testing state that Plasma Inceptors are really good and usually make their points back as they can prevent being shot off the board before they can fire as they can deepstrike.

 

Take a captain with jump pack and thunder hammer. Give him the following: Salamanders' Trait (+1S), Salamanders' Relic (+1T), a librarian to case might of heroes on him for +1S/T/Attack. Now you have a strong beatstick. You can also do this with a Primaris Captain to make him more durable and 

 

That captain sounds awesome!

 

I think for now I'm gonna put the Primaris units on a "maybe" list. They do sound good, but I think I'm gonna start with the classic Astartes units first.

 

I have ~30 mk IV marines that I'm gonna use as tacticals/devastators/whatever. I also think I'll build/paint my Falchion in Salamanders colors.

 

I've more or less settled on buying the following:

 

Vulkan He'stan

1x Stormraven

2x Razorback

1x Mk III marines (convert into Sternguard)

1x Vanguard vets

1x Assault Terminators

2x Scouts

1x Redemptor

1x Salamanders Contemptor + weapons

1x Relic Contemptor + weapons

1x Redemptor Dreadnought

1x Leviathan Dreadnought + weapons

+ Salamanders parts 

 

I think I'll have a healthy force, and plenty of work ahead of me (a lifetime's worth, considering my other army tongue.png)

 

What do you think about loadouts for contemptors? Due to the chapter tactic, I'm thinking twin lascannon + fist is actually decent.


Edited by Juggernut, 06 March 2018 - 04:11 PM.

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#12
Saxxon the Dragoon

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Well I think depending on what you want to do with your army. If you want to go primaris, I recommend going full primaris, if you are going to go astartes, then go full astartes. I have over 10k in astartes and over 3k in primaris.

 

For Astartes, here is a 2k fun list that I threw together to be hard hitting.

HQ- Captain+Jump Pack, relic blade, combi-flamer (its a converted He'Stan) -125

HQ- Chaplain+jump pack, combi-plasma (you could also go combi-melta) - 105

HQ- Techmarine, bolt pistol, power axe - 62

Troop- (10) tac squad, powersword, combigrav, plasma gun, plasma cannon - 181

Troop- (10) tac squad, powersword, combigrav, plasma gun, plasma cannon - 181

Troop- (5) tac squad, chainsword, bolt pistol, plasma gun - 78 (you could replace this with a scout squad and take sniper rifles to focus fire hq units, I am tempted to do this)

Fast- (5) assault squad, eviscerator+combat shield, 2 plasma pistol, 2 bolt pistol, melta bomb - 120

Heavy- Land Raider Helios - 2 twin lascannon, helios launcher, storm bolter - 354

Elite- Relic Contemptor Dread - cyclone launcher, DCCW, plasma blast gun, kheres assault cannon - 258

Elite- Relic Contemptor Dread - cyclone launcher, 2 DCCW, 2 plasma blast guns - 277

Elite- (5) Vanguard Vets - relic blade+storm shield, 3 power swords, 2 plasma pistols, 2 bolt pistols, melta bomb - 142

Elite- (5) Sternguard Vets - powerfist+combiplasma, 4 special issue boltguns - 115

 

Battalion+vanguard for 7 CP, 106 power level, 1998 pts.

 

you can combat squad the 2 full tac squads to spread them out, and 2 jet pack squads can help cap or contest objectives or tie up units in melee. 2 relic contemptors and the helios give you lots of heavy fire support, the land raider can be parked in the back with the lascannons and helios launcher raining on targets while the contemptors can fire either frag or krak missiles and their invul save and 12 wounds make them versatile (plus you get access to a special strategem for having relics on the field). I am thinking of switching out the 5 man tac squad for scouts with sniper rifles to put saves on HQ's that are screened by infantry and to deal with guillimen and other troublesome units/hq's since sniper rifles can reliably wound.


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Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#13
Juggernut

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That's a vicious-sounding list, right there! I need to look up the LR helios.

 

I like the idea of land raiders, but haven't been impressed with them this edition. 


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#14
Aothaine

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That's a vicious-sounding list, right there! I need to look up the LR helios.

 

I like the idea of land raiders, but haven't been impressed with them this edition. 

 

Land Raiders are in a special class right now imho. They are mainly used to transport important models that need to stay safe until exposed. IE: Assault Terminators or other beatstick units with really bad armor saves. Now that you can disembark and then move and assault it gives moving pill boxes a lot more uses. I imagine we are going to see them a lot more in less competitive lists that don't rely on alpha striking you off the board turn one.


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"Death before Dishonor! No Mercy!" - Captain Donatello of the Roaring Lions!

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#15
Juggernut

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That seems like a more fair assessment. Both the Crusader and Redeemer are awesome, IMO. 16-man capacity is sweet, as are flamers to roast any chargers.


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#16
Saxxon the Dragoon

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That's a vicious-sounding list, right there! I need to look up the LR helios.

 

I like the idea of land raiders, but haven't been impressed with them this edition. 

Helios has 2 twin las, a whirlwind launcher (that doesnt need LoS to shoot) and has transport cap of 6. So if you see your opponent setting up a tau rail rifle backline, amassed devastator squads, or any long range tank killers just put the helios behind full cover that blocks LoS but you can still fire your missiles until its safe for it to come out and use its lascannons. the transport of 6 is not that great, but honestly if you arent using the crusader or prometheus then you should be using your land raider as a weapons platform.

 

as for if you want to make changes to my list to make it more salamandery (my chapter likes plasma, lots of plasma, ALL OF THE PLASMA) just switch out the plasma weapons for melta or flamer weapons if you want.

 

I wanted to use the sicaran omega in a list, but with it still having experimental rules (and hopefully the weapon gets improved for 8th edition because as it stands right now it is absolutely garbage as a tank hunter) I might not get to play it. So went with 2 salamander relic contemptors and took vanguard and sternguard to make the list legal (you cant have more relic than non-relics in your detatchments, so each relic needs a buddy unit) since they are legal and have invul saves. I havent had a chance yet to use this list but with 6 different squads to spread out and fight over objectives, and 3 heavy hitting vehicles as well as 2 hq's with jetpacks to harass and a techmarine to do field repairs, I feel it gives me a pretty good 'all comers' kind of list with lots of vicious options.


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Armies: The Dragoons Chapter (Astartes and Primaris), Sisters of the Silver Chalice (Sororitas), Grey Knights, Deathwatch, Elysian Drop Troops, Farsight Enclave (T'au).
 
Blade with whom I lived by, Blade with whom I now die.
Serve right and justice one last time, seek one last heart of evil.
Still one last life of pain, cut well old friend, then farewell.

#17
Ishagu

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I think 3 squads of Scouts is enough to create a protective bubble in the initial turn.

You're jumping in with Dark Imperium - I'd recommend more Hellblaster squads and another unit of Inceptors :-)

Also, if doing Salamanders you might want to look at the Forgeworld unit additions :-)
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#18
Claws and Effect

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I think 3 squads of Scouts is enough to create a protective bubble in the initial turn.

You're jumping in with Dark Imperium - I'd recommend more Hellblaster squads and another unit of Inceptors :-)

Also, if doing Salamanders you might want to look at the Forgeworld unit additions :-)


Agree with the Forgeworld advice.

Bray'arth Ashmantle is a BEAST. Only real downsides are he really needs a Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Pod to get close enough to hurt anything, and he can only be the Warlord if he is the only HQ unit 8n the list.

Pelias Mir'San is a nice duelist, but there's no official model for him.
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#19
Juggernut

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I think 3 squads of Scouts is enough to create a protective bubble in the initial turn.

You're jumping in with Dark Imperium - I'd recommend more Hellblaster squads and another unit of Inceptors :-)

Also, if doing Salamanders you might want to look at the Forgeworld unit additions :-)


Agree with the Forgeworld advice.

Bray'arth Ashmantle is a BEAST. Only real downsides are he really needs a Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Pod to get close enough to hurt anything, and he can only be the Warlord if he is the only HQ unit 8n the list.

Pelias Mir'San is a nice duelist, but there's no official model for him.

 

 

 

RE: Forge World I'm gonna get a couple of contemptors and a leviathan, for sure!

 

As for Pellas Mir'San, I like him a lot, and since I'm building a mostly 1st/2nd company mixed army he'd fit right in. I love converting/kitbashing/sculpting, so I can figure something out. smile.png

 

I really want to build this guy, for example, so maybe if I do I'll count him as Pellas:

 

8g21vnoh.png


Edited by Juggernut, 07 March 2018 - 01:48 AM.

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#20
Claws and Effect

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I think 3 squads of Scouts is enough to create a protective bubble in the initial turn.

You're jumping in with Dark Imperium - I'd recommend more Hellblaster squads and another unit of Inceptors :-)

Also, if doing Salamanders you might want to look at the Forgeworld unit additions :-)

Agree with the Forgeworld advice.

Bray'arth Ashmantle is a BEAST. Only real downsides are he really needs a Lucius Pattern Dreadnought Pod to get close enough to hurt anything, and he can only be the Warlord if he is the only HQ unit 8n the list.

Pelias Mir'San is a nice duelist, but there's no official model for him.


RE: Forge World I'm gonna get a couple of contemptors and a leviathan, for sure!

As for Pellas Mir'San, I like him a lot, and since I'm building a mostly 1st/2nd company mixed army he'd fit right in. I love converting/kitbashing/sculpting, so I can figure something out. smile.png

I really want to build this guy, for example, so maybe if I do I'll count him as Pellas:

8g21vnoh.png

Umm, I'm pretty sure that IS Pellas.
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#21
Juggernut

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Hey, that was easy. tongue.png

 

Super interesting (to me) is that that piece of artwork was apparently updated(?).

 

Here's the older piece:

 

Spoiler

 

Here's the updated piece:

 

Spoiler

 

Here's a cropped picture of Pellas:

 

cZy3jLU.png


Edited by Juggernut, 07 March 2018 - 03:29 AM.

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#22
Ishagu

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I like the updated art more... the Marine in it look more like Primaris.

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#23
Robbienw

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What are you on about?! Both versions look like normal marines, the 2nd just has added detail, more vivid colour and a mk3 armoured marine :lol:



#24
Ishagu

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They look bulkier,especially the guy on the right. Longer looking legs.

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#25
Juggernut

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I dunno, doesn’t look like Primaris armor at all to me either.

What I want to know most is what the heck is going on with his sword!? There seems to be a tank of promethium at the base, hence the whole flaming sword thing. What an awesome bit of detail. I have only ever seen that in this artwork. Pellas’s sword is Cinder Edge, so that would lend more support to it being him represented in this piece. Also, the 2 on the flamer bro’s pauldron.

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