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2000 points competitive

- - - - - Death Guard Tournament Competition Starter

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#1
TZ20

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So while I'm working on my Custodes, I'm looking at jumping into a second army as soon as I've finished that. I want this one to be for tournaments, throne of skull weekends etc etc My main focus of this army is to make use of the Dark Imperium box set as well as the other plastic kits. Always open to other ideas and comments. I'll be working with the Battalion detachment as the core of my army with a few added extras.

 

 

 
HQ
 
Lord of Contagion 117 points
Manreaper
 
Malignant Plaguecaster 110 points
 
Troops
 
Plague Marines 145 points 
Plague Champion and 6 Plague Marines
PC - Plaguesword, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol
Meltagun
5 Boltguns
 
Plague Marines 181 points
Plague Champion and 6 Plague Marines
PC - Plasmagun, power fist
Meltagun, Blight Launcher
Icon of Despair
 
Plague Marines 165 points
Plague Champion and 6 Plague Marines
PC - Plaguesword and Plasma Pistol
2 Plague Spewers
 
Plague Marines 169 points
Plague Champion and 6 Plague Marines
PC - Plaguesword and Power Fist
Great Plague Cleaver
Mace of Contagion and bubotic axe
Icon of Despair
 
Poxwalkers 120 points
20 Poxwalkers
 
Chaos Cultists 89 points
Cultis Champion and 19 Cultists
Champion has assault weapon and autopistol
Flamer
 
Elites
 
Blightlord Terminators 259 points
Champion and 4 Terminators
BC - Balesword and combi-plasma
Flail of Corruption
3 Bubotic Axes, 2 Combi Bolters
Plague Spewer
 
Tallyman 62 points
Plasma Pistol
 
Fast Attack
 
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158 points
2 Plaguespitters
Plague probe
 
Myphitic Blight-haulers 284 points
2 Blight-haulers
 
Heavy Support
 
Plagueburst Crawler 140 points
2 Plaguespitters
Heavy Slugger
Plagueburst Mortar
 
Total 1999 points

Slow painter, quick reader, many ideas but little time.

 

 


#2
BlackTriton

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I can point to non-competitive element of the list. 

 

First, you have way too much plague marine. they are way to expensive to take in such large number. Tournament list that use them with some success (that I know of) uses 1 squad of 7-10 or 2 of 5. always with double plague launcher (best gun / points) and 1 plasma gun (champion). they hold objective.

Blight-hauler are fun, but have never figured in any competitive list I have seen. take with caution.

Lord of contagion is plain bad. awesome model though. I hear some use him as a chaos lord in terminator armor with power axe, a much better competitive choices.

I believe flamer type weapon are not good on slow model like plague marine and Blight-Lord. 

 

Any of these element by themselves could give a list flavors if you do not aim to create a high-end list.

however, you should consider changing some of these things for more competitive choices. 

exchange the Lord of contagion for: typhus (model may count-as) or a Daemon prince (one of the best HQ of the game)

exchange some plague marine for poxwalker (combo with typhus, tallyman, surgeon, and psychic powers), avoid giving too much upgrade to a squad.

replace a blight-hauler with another bloat-drone or a plague burst crawler

 

Overall, I feel most of our points in this list are spent on expensive unit and expensive upgrade. Death guard have access to some of the best unit of the game in the Daemon prince, bloat drone and plague burst crawler. Start your list with some of these unit and choose stuff to complement them. Dark Imperium is good place to start since every unit exept the Lord of contagion can be included in a competitive list.


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#3
TZ20

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I guess when I started writing out the list I did have fluff more than competition in mind. I was planning this around the Dark Imperium box set, so that's where a lot of the numbers come from. I was looking at the idea of having more anti tank weapons with the two Blight Haulers, but we'll see how it goes.

 

What are your thoughts on the close combat orientated unit? Should I keep them or loose them?


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#4
BlackTriton

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CC plague marine are not currently considered competitive. Mostly because they get compared to khorn bezerker and such.
I plan to use a unit of 5 in a rhino with biologus, blight spawn and chaos lord.
With the flail being such a good weapon and the blight bombardment stratagem I hope I can ise them to some effect.
However I cannot recommend them as they have yet to prove their worth.

#5
Prot

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Most of competitive 40k is quite boring to build imo. 6 Plagueburst crawlers, and nurglings.... that sort of thing. Basically the competitive scene meta right now favours cheap junk that’s hard to break followed by a spammed unit of elite goodness.

So I’m saying this because I think your list looks fun and if those are the models you want to use, then by all means use them. To go the competitive route means removing your creativity and indulging in overcosted units like Blight Haulers, Plague Marines, Lord of Contagion, etc.

What you have is a good, fluffy, fun to create mid grade list. Go with it. There’s nothing wrong with playing competitive, I do it myself at times, and have no issue with it. I just think if you’re excited to explore and experience Death Guard, the competitive route will give you a bland , monochromatic list..... which will experience some tournament success.
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#6
TZ20

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Black Triton - I imagine that for an army based on attrition and durability, close combat wouldn't really be seen as a major factor in their design. I would love to put them in a Rhino, but I don't know if it would look that good.

 

Maybe an allied detachment for close combat would work better in this case.

 

Prot - This will be used for my first competitive tournament. I've been to events before, but up until lately none of the big ones like Throne of Skulls. I'm always open to suggestions and ideas, and while I don't want to go overboard like some of the meta-lists I've seen, a competitive edge is always appreciated.


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Slow painter, quick reader, many ideas but little time.

 

 


#7
Checkmate77

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TZ20 - I applaud your decision to try a competitive list which still remains true to the DeathGuard Fluff and avoids Meta-lists. I love that you are staying true to the hallowed number 7 for your Plague Marines, I try to do the same in my games.

 

A couple of thoughts for you to consider: 1. Agree with Black Triton on turning your Lord of Contagion into a Chaos Lord with Terminator Armor. He can be dropped with your BlightLord Terminators and will really increase their effectiveness/Threat (re-roll 1s)

 

2. On the subject of BlightLords, I think you need to give them something to make them more of a threat to your enemy. Right now they hit hard as a CC squad, but their shooting is lackluster at best. Leaving the Flail, I would turn some/all of the Combi-bolters in this squad to combi-plasma or melta to give them more hitting power. Especially combi-plasma supported by a Chaos Lord close by (re-rolls of 1) can make this unit very dangerous.

 

3. A Demon Prince or additional Chaos Lord in Power Armor would be very helpful for your main line of advance. You didn't mention the tactics you want to use so I'm assuming here that a predominant portion of your PMs will advance supported by the MBHs? Having a Lord or DP close by to help augment the shooting of the MBHs (4+) by allowing them to re-roll 1s will allow them to put out more effective Anti-Tank firesupport for your PMs.

 

4. For your PM squads, they look to me like you are trying to make them as versatile as possible? However, in doing so, I think you are really stunting their effectiveness. I would recommend trying to focus what you want them to do a bit more by giving them the appropriate special weapons. For example: If you want a squad to capture and hold an objective for a game, give them Blight Launchers &/or Plasma to allow them the best range to reach out and support the rest of your army. Your squad with Plague sewers is pretty much your CC element. Put that unit in a Rhino (and maybe give them an extra flail or two). This will give them a better chance of getting into position to use their Assault weapons.

 

5. I know this is going to be a very unpopular suggestion I make now with some people, but here it is: I would recommend scrapping the cultists and the Poxwalkers. Yes, I know how awesome the Poxwalkers are right now, but in the list in its current configuration I don't think they fit. Let me explain; You are focusing heavy on PMs, I see nothing wrong with that, but in that case, you need the characters and units to support this build. You already have to MBHs which compliment the PMs very well, but you need more character support (see my early recommendation for a DP or second Chaos Lord). If you want to go with Poxwalkers, then by all means do, but then I would recommend at least one additional 20-man-squad of them plus Typhus to augment them. This in turn will mean you have to drop at least two of your PM squads (three if you want to keep your two existing HQ choices).

 

Again, just my thoughts, hope they help somewhat msn-wink.gif


Edited by Checkmate77, 12 March 2018 - 01:06 PM.


#8
Checkmate77

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My apologies for the Blob of text in my previous post, for some reason it won't display in the format I wrote it in. 


Edited by Checkmate77, 12 March 2018 - 01:03 PM.


#9
TZ20

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Always appreciate the feedback and advice on the list guys, taking it into account and working on a new updated list for my army.

 

Checkmate - listing them from top to bottom, here are the responses:

 

1. I am amazed that the LoC doesn't have the same rule as the CL and DP or at least something similar but such is life. I have swapped the LoC for both a Chaos Lord and a Daemon Prince, though I had considered using a Chaos Lord in power armour, and putting him with the close combat armoured plague marines in the Rhino, getting him right into combat. 

 

2. With the Terminators, I've left the Plague Spewer and Flail, so I can drop them into combat, open fire with the spewer and combi-bolters and then get them into combat. Might have to swap the Chaos Lord with a Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour and have him run amok alongside the unit. I'm keeping the Malignant Plaguecaster in the army so he could join the close combat orientated Plague Marines in the Rhino. 

 

3. I did forget tactics, which is fair enough. Long story short would be that the Plague Marines would go after the objectives and hold them for as long as possible. The Blight Haulers, Bloat Drone and Plagueburst Crawler will be providing support in terms of shooting and the like. The DP will have wings so I can send him into combat and hunt down enemy characters and problem units. 

 

4. I think I went a little bit overboard on the load out for my Plague Marines and went with the rule of cool on most parts lol I have trimmed them back, so they are more focused on their role. Blight Launchers on the two main gun units, and flails on the close combat unit. 

 

5. I was wondering whether the Poxwalkers and Cultists are worth it. They're cheap units so they do make good cannon fodder, and with the Poxwalkers they are more durable, though I wish they had more than twenty models in a maximum unit. I'd love to see a horde of them on the field in a single unit, though the stratagem does allow them to increase beyond their original size, but that's a risk depending on the army playing against. I probably wont use Typhus in the army. He's a cool model and good, but I don't know whether he's worth the 175 points.  

 

 

One question did come to mind in regards to load out, what do people usually go with when it comes to Bloat-Drones; Plaguespiiters, fleshmowers or heavy blight launcher?


Slow painter, quick reader, many ideas but little time.

 

 


#10
Checkmate77

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From what I've seen the majority seem to favor Plaguespitters.  However I think it pretty much comes down to what you want to use them for.



#11
TZ20

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Part of me can understand why. 2 D6 shots per turn automatically hitting is nothing to sneeze at. I do like the idea of the Fleshmower though. Equip that and have it run into close combat and, depending on how lucky you are, could have at most 12 attacks to use, depending on whether or not you want to use the plague probe.


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#12
TZ20

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Okay, so taking into account everyone's suggestions and tips (always appreciated and welcomed) I have a revised army list for your perusal, though it leaves me with 225 points left to play with which might go towards another unit of Plague Marines and transport, or something else entirely. Maybe a unit of Plague Marines and another elites choice, possibly a surgeon so I can take a Vanguard detachment.

 

HQ
 
Daemon Prince 180 points
Wings, Malefic Talons
 
Chaos Lord 87 points
Balesword, Plasma Pistol
 
Malignant Plaguecaster 110 points
 
Troops
 
Plague Marines 235 points
Champion and 8 Marines.
C - Plaguesword and Plasma Gun
Icon of Despair
2 Flail of Corruptions
2 Plague Spewers
 
Plague Marines 164 points
Plague Champion and 6 Marines
C - Plasma Gun and Power Fist
2 Blight Launchers
 
Plague Marines 140 points
Plague Champion and 6 Marines
C - Plaguesword
2 Blight Launchers
 
Elites
 
Blightlord Terminators 285 points
Champion and 4 Terminators
C - Balesword and combi-plasma
Flail of Corruption
Plague Spewer, 3 Bubotic Axes 3 Combi Plasma
 
Tallyman 62 points
 
Fast Attack
 
Foetid Bloat-Drone 158 points
2 Plaguespitters, Plague Probe
 
Myphitic Blight Haulter 142 points
 
Heavy Support
 
Plagueburst Crawler 140 points
2 Plaguespitters, Heavy Slugger
 
Transport
 
Rhino 72 points
 
Total - 1775 points

Slow painter, quick reader, many ideas but little time.

 

 


#13
Checkmate77

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That list is looking pretty good right now, I'm not the most experienced person on this thread, but I think it synchs together rather well. 

 

For your remaining points, have you considered maybe a Patrol Detachment?  Either Demon (Herald of Nurgle) or a Chaos Lord in Termi armor (your BL Termi's could definitely benefit from the re-roll 1 to hit aura he gives).  Then for the troops add a Troop or two of Nurglings.  Their ability to be set up 9" away from enemy troops can really wreak havoc on your opponents deployment, plus they will be forced to deal with them first. 

 

For example:

 

DG Patrol Detachment:

Chaos Terminator Lord w/Combi-Plasma and Balesword (126 points)

Troop 5xNurglings (90)

 

Total: 216 points



#14
BlackTriton

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Carefull, nurglings are not deathguard.
If you put them in the same detachment as a chaos lord, you have a nurgle "soup" detachment, not a deathguard one.
Meaning the lord do not benefit from the inexorable advance rule.

I quite like the list, im not sure about plague spewer in general. On plague marine I would rather use grenades, blight bombardment stratagem.
On blightlord, they dont have enough range to hit on a turn you deepstrike.

#15
TZ20

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Checkmate - It's an interesting thought, though I'd want something other than demons for the patrol detachment. I'd want to do a full daemon army separately and use them as an allied detachment... though that's not a bad idea I must admit.

 

Triton - I'm working with spewers as they make for a good overwatch weapon. D6 and automatically hits is nothing to sneeze at.


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#16
McElMcNinja

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For what it's worth, the plague spewer has a range of 9", so when you teleport in you will be further then 9" and you will not have the range with it. I suggest the blight launcher, unless you are using it for anti-charging.

#17
Checkmate77

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Black Triton - You're absolutely right, if TZ did go that route I'd recommend using the Demon Prince as the HQ for that Patrol Detachment with the Nurglings (synergizes better having the DP in the same detachment as the Nurglings).  That way his Chaos Lord would still benefit from the Death Guard inexorable advance.



#18
BlackTriton

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I found I want my DP in a deathguard codex, otherwise he dosent give RR1 to deathguard, only to daemon!
Also the suppurating plate relic is just so good!

#19
Checkmate77

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Nothing is saying he can't be the Deathguard DP.  Nurglings are in the Death Guard Codex, you can take them as troops in a Deathguard Patrol Detachment with your DP. 

 

The only thing you have to watch out for is that they don't have the Deathguard keyword, which would only hurt your PMs, Chaos Lords, and models with heavy equipment....none of them apply to the DP so he can be the HQ for said detachment without any negative repercussions. 



#20
BlackTriton

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I beleive you are wrong.
For a detachment to be DEATHGUARD the requirement is that all unit in said detachment share the DEATHGUARD keyword.
Putting the DP and Nurgling in a detachment makes it a NURGLE DAEMON detachment.
Having a datasheet in the codex dosent change the rules. In fact they are in the codex only for summoning purposes.

#21
Checkmate77

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Brother I think we're going to need a third party tie breaker.

 

I am pretty sure, you can have a Death Guard Detachment with Nurglings as Troops.  The only thing that means is all units within the Detachment don't have access to the Deathguard legion traits (i.e. inexorable Advance). 

 

As the legion trait does affect the Death Guard Demon Prince, he can be the HQ for that detachment.



#22
BlackTriton

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I see what you mean now, you might be right.
Ill look and edit when I get a chance smile.png

 

EDIT: Looking in details at all relevant rules, you are right about the rules interation in that it does not have any negative effect, but it is still not a Deathgaurd detachment.

All detachment have the "must be from the same FACTION" restriction.

Faction are determined my the "FACTION" keywords

The "Daemon prince of nurgle" datasheet in the Death guard codex has the Chaos, Nurgle, Heretic Astarte, Deathguard keywords.

Nurglings datasheet has the Chaos, Nurgle, Daemon keywords.

A detachment composed of these two datasheet is therefore a Chaos, Nurgle Detachment.

 

However, I was wrong in assuming the DP would lose his RR 1 ability for Deathguard, if you use the datasheet from the codex, he keeps them.

note that in the Codex: Daemon we find the "Daemon prince of chaos" and he has the Chaos, Daemon, [allegiance] keywords, meaning both Daemon Prince are not interchangeable.

 

furthermore, The rules for both Warlord trait and Relics are dependent on your warlord having the Deathgurad faction keyword, not him being in a deathguard detachment as I thought.   

 

Im glad this was cleared as I feel It opens a new option of list building for me! :)
 


Edited by BlackTriton, 16 March 2018 - 02:14 AM.

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#23
Checkmate77

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Nice,

 

I learned something new too.  Glad I could help.



#24
TZ20

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Wow, you go away from work for a few days and come back to a rules discussion :P Though it's not unappreciated as I had been wondering the exact same thing about the daemons in a Death Guard army.

 

I have been giving it some thought, though I've decided to use the last of the points to make a Vanguard Detachment to get the extra command point. Plus the army will be extra fluffy with 7 CPs lol


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Slow painter, quick reader, many ideas but little time.

 

 






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