Tau 8th Edition: Codex and the future discussions.

[Panzer]

 

Okay I got the Codex and just wanted to confirm that if you want to equip your Coldstar with the HO-BC then you're stuck with the MP as well. You only get them as pair but if you don't care about the HO-BC you can take 4 of any combination of weapons and support systems (excluding CIBs).

a bit disappointing. still opens up to some interesting kit loadouts.

 

any interesting Lore bits around:

 

Tau encountering Primaris

Tau thoughts on Primarchs/Deamon primarchs

Auxillaries

 

 

I'll see if I can find something tomorrow if there's not too much to do at work. I've been pretty sick the past week and my head is still killing me (a weird experience since I can't remember when I ever had a headache in my life lol).

[Sete]

 

 

Okay I got the Codex and just wanted to confirm that if you want to equip your Coldstar with the HO-BC then you're stuck with the MP as well. You only get them as pair but if you don't care about the HO-BC you can take 4 of any combination of weapons and support systems (excluding CIBs).

a bit disappointing. still opens up to some interesting kit loadouts.

 

any interesting Lore bits around:

 

Tau encountering Primaris

Tau thoughts on Primarchs/Deamon primarchs

Auxillaries

No Primaris mentions

No Primarch mentions

T'au are starting to realize the chaos threat, (chaos space marines) and think daemons are strange Xenos that do not abide by the law of physics. Haven't read everything tho.

[Commander Dawnstar]

Do they mention anything about the passage of time from the T'au perspective (i.e. how many years have passed relative to them as opposed to the 100+ seen by Guilliman)?

[Commander Isamu]

Okay I got the Codex and just wanted to confirm that if you want to equip your Coldstar with the HO-BC then you're stuck with the MP as well. You only get them as pair but if you don't care about the HO-BC you can take 4 of any combination of weapons and support systems (excluding CIBs).

I have the digital version of the codex and it says you may swap one "and/or" the other....maybe I'm reading it wrong but that means pick 4 whatever or keep the HOBC and/or replace the MP....

 

20 str 5 shots would be fun

[9x19 Parabellum]

Ok I picked up the Codex today, as I've decided Tau are going to be my 4th army.

 

I'm completely overwhelmed by it.

 

I want to start with a 1k point army or so.

 

I'd like to do something like

1x Strike Team

2x Breachers in Devilfish

 

a Riptide

a unit of stealth

a unit of pathfinders

 

All that being said, I'm completely overwhelmed with the various drone options and the HQ options.

 

Can someone help me understand the broad themes/purposed of the various HQs and drones without going through every gun option.

[MithrilForge]

Ok I picked up the Codex today, as I've decided Tau are going to be my 4th army.

 

I'm completely overwhelmed by it.

 

I want to start with a 1k point army or so.

 

I'd like to do something like

1x Strike Team

2x Breachers in Devilfish

 

a Riptide

a unit of stealth

a unit of pathfinders

 

All that being said, I'm completely overwhelmed with the various drone options and the HQ options.

 

Can someone help me understand the broad themes/purposed of the various HQs and drones without going through every gun option.

 

i'll second this  .... 

Calling ...sfPanzer.... do you read us, over? BZZZZT....   

 

Mithril 

[Waking Dreamer]

Can someone double check, there's no rule that stops having Etherals for a FSE detachment?

 

Now that Tau Septs have their own rules, I don't want to paint an Etheral in FSE colours if they can be part of one, on say the account in the lore FSE don't actually have any Etheral iirc...

[Sete]

Do they mention anything about the passage of time from the T'au perspective (i.e. how many years have passed relative to them as opposed to the 100+ seen by Guilliman)?

Don't think I saw anything like that. Business as usual for T'au.

They did had a downtime after the 4th sphere expansion fiasco, and currently they are fighting DG over the wormhole Nexus near the new sept worlds of the 4th sphere.

[Panzer]

 

Okay I got the Codex and just wanted to confirm that if you want to equip your Coldstar with the HO-BC then you're stuck with the MP as well. You only get them as pair but if you don't care about the HO-BC you can take 4 of any combination of weapons and support systems (excluding CIBs).

a bit disappointing. still opens up to some interesting kit loadouts.

 

any interesting Lore bits around:

 

Tau encountering Primaris

Tau thoughts on Primarchs/Deamon primarchs

Auxillaries

 

 

What Sete said.

Nothing about Primaris.

Nothing about Primarchs. Only some mentioning of fighting against Death Guard (Shas'O Kais got sent to prepare a planet for colonisation as part of the Fifth Sphere Expansion but the Death Guard got there first), some Tzeentch Sorcerer with personal Rubric guard (Earth Caste analysing some mysterious scepter briming with energy and the Tzeentch guys having to fight some experimental Battlesuits and T'au with supercharged Pulse Carbines which can punch straight through Power armor!), Khorne Marines (who get drowned in magma ... actually the whole moon gets drowned in magma lol) and even more Death Guard (Startide Nexus event).

Nothing new about Auxillaries.

 

Do they mention anything about the passage of time from the T'au perspective (i.e. how many years have passed relative to them as opposed to the 100+ seen by Guilliman)?

 

 

 

Okay I got the Codex and just wanted to confirm that if you want to equip your Coldstar with the HO-BC then you're stuck with the MP as well. You only get them as pair but if you don't care about the HO-BC you can take 4 of any combination of weapons and support systems (excluding CIBs).

I have the digital version of the codex and it says you may swap one "and/or" the other....maybe I'm reading it wrong but that means pick 4 whatever or keep the HOBC and/or replace the MP....

 

20 str 5 shots would be fun

 

 

Oh you're right! I missed the "or" part last night. Okay so HO-BC, 2xBC, ATS Coldstar is a go! (ATS is better than an additional BC here due how efficient the HO-BC is. I did the Math already ).

 

 

Ok I picked up the Codex today, as I've decided Tau are going to be my 4th army.

 

I'm completely overwhelmed by it.

 

I want to start with a 1k point army or so.

 

I'd like to do something like

1x Strike Team

2x Breachers in Devilfish

 

a Riptide

a unit of stealth

a unit of pathfinders

 

All that being said, I'm completely overwhelmed with the various drone options and the HQ options.

 

Can someone help me understand the broad themes/purposed of the various HQs and drones without going through every gun option.

 

i'll second this  .... 

Calling ...sfPanzer.... do you read us, over? BZZZZT....  

 

Mithril 

 

 

Alright, it's not that much once you got used to it but I can understand how overwhelming it can be at first.

 

First the HQs.

Commander - Just for the Dakka and Signature Systems. It has a neat once per battle aura buff but is rather situational.

Coldstar are the fast ones with the optional High-Output Burst cannon (really good weapon!) but can't take Cyclic Ion Blaster (arguably the best Crisis weapon overall).

Enforcer are the standard Commander who can take whatever they want (except for the High-Output Burst cannon) and have an additional Wound compared to the regular XV8 Commander. It's the model you get in the official Commander box from GW.

XV8 Commander are the exact same as the Enforcer, but use the generic Crisis model, have a wound less BUT can take the Iridium armor for 15p which increases their armor save to a 2+!

Imo you either take the Coldstar or the XV8 Commander with Iridium Suit. There's not really a point to the Enforcer Commander currently.

 

Ethereals - Infantry gunline support

They are extremely squishy and offer an aura with 1 of 4 effects for Infantry and Battlesuits. Those effects are rather situational and overall weak imo.

-1 to your Morale tests sounds fine but means you already expect your Infantry to get shot to bits. It also prevents you from using the Bonding Knife ritual rule since you can't roll a 6 anymore.

Re-roll hit rolls of 1s in the shooting phase is decent but requires the unit to be stationary and is super easy to get via Markerlights anyway.

A 6+++ ... I learned to never pay ressources for a 6+ save. It's just too unreliable.

Re-roll the advance roll. Yeah ... usually you won't need it. Maybe if you play Vior'la and advance 24/7 with your Infantry.

 

Fireblade - mid-range gunline support and super reliable Markerlight

He gives your models with Pulse weapons (not pulse blaster unfortunately) within 6" an additional shot if they shoot at targets within half their range. Basically a mini-Rapid fire buff for everyone. Double mean on Gun Drones since they carry two Pulse Carbines and thus get two additional shots (makes 6 shots per Gun Drone at 9").

Additionally he himself has BS2+, a Markerlight and is protected by the Character keyword so by far the most reliable Markerlight you can take.

 

Those are all the generic HQs we have. The others are special characters. Next up the Drones.

 

Generally all of them are incredibly good bodyguards. They can soak up a whole Lascannon shot aimed at your Riptide/Ghostkeel/Crisis and are okay-ish against anti-infantry shooting themselves with their T4 Sv4+ so they aren't total pushovers.

 

Shield Drones - the bodyguard among the bodyguards

So they all can soak up some serious shooting for your big guys (or the expensive small guys like FB Stealth Suits or Rail rifle Pathfinder ) ... but imagine they could actually survive that as well! That's where these little guys come into play. As all Drones they can sacrifice themselves on a 2+ to protect your Riptide or whatever from that nasty Lascannon shot ... and on a 5+ they simply ignore it.

And if that isn't enough, they are even more durable against anti-infantry shooting with their 4+ invulnerable save and THEN the 5+++ on top of it. Your opponent will hate them.

 

Gun Drones - lots of dakka

They are 50% more expensive than in the Index but are still strong. 4 S5 AP0 shots at 18" is nothing to sneeze at even at just BS5+ (especially with a Fireblade and something with a Drone controller nearby).

 

Markerlight Drones - they do this Markerlight thing but in bad

Honestly not worth it imo. Fireblades, Firesight Marksmen and Pathfinder all are way better. The BS5+ really hurts this Drone.

 

That's it for the Tactical Drones. The other Drones are all just for specific units and are pretty situational. Usually not worth it unfortunately (unless they are included automatically like the Stealth Drones). The Pulse Accelerater Drone is pretty good tho.

 

Can someone double check, there's no rule that stops having Etherals for a FSE detachment?

 

Now that Tau Septs have their own rules, I don't want to paint an Etheral in FSE colours if they can be part of one, on say the account in the lore FSE don't actually have any Etheral iirc...

 

Confirmed. Nothing stops you from having FSE Ethereals if you wanted to (which real FSE player shouldn't anyway ).

Do they mention anything about the passage of time from the T'au perspective (i.e. how many years have passed relative to them as opposed to the 100+ seen by Guilliman)?

 

I doubt that any Codex will actually mention any details there since it's just a convenient way for GW to ignore things like special characters being too old, some guys having some unexpected and unexplained stuff going on for some silly plotline and so on.

Edited March 19, 2018 by sfPanzer

[OnboardG1]

Well the Ethereals are probably functionally immortal (apart from holo-pope obviously). The Puretide students all get deep frozen between conflicts so it’s safe to assume Darkstrider and Longstrike get put on ice too. And Farsight is kept alive by his freaky sword.

[Panzer]

Especially Darkstrider is unlikely to get frozen since he's the oddball who prefers doing the dirty work with his Pathfinder buddys instead of accepting the promotion to a battlesuit pilot which the leaders already don't like to see. ^^

Anyway, that was only an example. The point is that the time-stuff is just a convenient excuse for GW to do whatever.

[Sete]

Don't think Ethereals are immortal. They do grow old and retire somewhere.

We can safely assume that everyone goes to the cryo bed on the timeskips.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Thanks Panzer, that definitely helps.

 

Can you help with a couple other general high-altitude questions, like:

 

-what should I be trying to do with my guys?

- (subquestion) do Tau ever want to do anything but just stay as far away as possible?  Breachers have great guns, for example, but is it just not worth it to ever get close enough to the enemy to use them? 

 

-what are the driving paradigms and questions to ask myself when setting out to build a Tau list?

 

-I'm used to building MSU troops with Space Marines.  Is that the right or wrong approach for Strike Teams, Breacher Teams, and/or Kroot?  Is it more situational than that?  Which option do I used for Deep Strike denial, the way I would use scouts.  Kroot are cheaper, but require more models. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Panzer]

Thanks Panzer, that definitely helps.

 

Can you help with a couple other general high-altitude questions, like:

 

-what should I be trying to do with my guys?

- (subquestion) do Tau ever want to do anything but just stay as far away as possible?  Breachers have great guns, for example, but is it just not worth it to ever get close enough to the enemy to use them? 

 

-what are the driving paradigms and questions to ask myself when setting out to build a Tau list?

 

-I'm used to building MSU troops with Space Marines.  Is that the right or wrong approach for Strike Teams, Breacher Teams, and/or Kroot?  Is it more situational than that?  Which option do I used for Deep Strike denial, the way I would use scouts.  Kroot are cheaper, but require more models. 

 

 - Well....that's a pretty broad question. Shoot all the things, survive and don't forget the objectives? :D (Going through the whole Codex and explaining what unit is good for what like I did for the HQs is a bit extensive for a quick reply).

 

 - T'au usually want to be at mid-range (~15-18 inch) with some exceptions. Breacher, Flamer or Fusion Blaster Crisis and Fireblade supported Gun Drones want to be close. Hammerheads, Broadsides and other big guns want to be as far away as possible.

Being close to the enemy is obviously dangerous so Breacher could be considered a suicide unit but they have enough punch to wipe out an important target.

Battlesuits like Crisis are durable enough to dance with non-melee units, especially with Drones around. Often it's a good idea to charge your opponents non-FLY shooty units to tie them up for a turn since you can fall back and keep shooting with your suits anyway.

 

 - Basically the same as with other armies. Have an answer for hordes and for tanks. Have bubble wrap (Kroot and Drones). Have board/objective control (Anything infantry but especially Stealth Suits).

The only additional thing is that you have to consider Markerlights as well but in return you don't have to worry about psychic stuff since you don't take part in the game in that phase anyway.

 

 - I don't see any reason why T'au shouldn't go for MSU as well except for trying to keep things in buff range of characters or for specific Stratagems (the T'au Sept +1 to wound Stratagem, the Vior'la double shoot Stratagem or the FSE +1 to-hit on drop Stratagem for example).

[Triszin]

@spf

 

so does the HOB take up one weapon slot or two?

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

 - Well....that's a pretty broad question. Shoot all the things, survive and don't forget the objectives? (Going through the whole Codex and explaining what unit is good for what like I did for the HQs is a bit extensive for a quick reply).

 

 - T'au usually want to be at mid-range (~15-18 inch) with some exceptions. Breacher, Flamer or Fusion Blaster Crisis and Fireblade supported Gun Drones want to be close. Hammerheads, Broadsides and other big guns want to be as far away as possible.

Being close to the enemy is obviously dangerous so Breacher could be considered a suicide unit but they have enough punch to wipe out an important target.

Battlesuits like Crisis are durable enough to dance with non-melee units, especially with Drones around. Often it's a good idea to charge your opponents non-FLY shooty units to tie them up for a turn since you can fall back and keep shooting with your suits anyway.

 

 - Basically the same as with other armies. Have an answer for hordes and for tanks. Have bubble wrap (Kroot and Drones). Have board/objective control (Anything infantry but especially Stealth Suits).

The only additional thing is that you have to consider Markerlights as well but in return you don't have to worry about psychic stuff since you don't take part in the game in that phase anyway.

 

 - I don't see any reason why T'au shouldn't go for MSU as well except for trying to keep things in buff range of characters or for specific Stratagems (the T'au Sept +1 to wound Stratagem, the Vior'la double shoot Stratagem or the FSE +1 to-hit on drop Stratagem for example).

 

 

Thanks again, Panzer. Yeah I don't want you to write a term paper for me, that's not what I'm looking for.

 

I'm trying to grok the codex as a whole and wrap my head around the whole idea of how the Tau are supposed to work.  There's a lot of info to digest.  I guess I'm kidding myself in thinking there's any way to learn this without actually starting to play the game with them :-)  I just don't want to spend a lot of money (on models) and time (on painting) in experimentation with a 4th army.

[Panzer]

Well T'au will play very differently depending on what kind of list you write and what Sept you take.

So my advice is, for competetive play ... wait a little bit. And for casual play ... take whatever you like.

The only things I wouldn't take are Markerlight Drones and Strike Teams with Carbines. The other units are up to debate and/or need some testing to judge.

@spf

 

so does the HOB take up one weapon slot or two?

Why would it take up two slots?

[Skaorn]

Based on the Puretide Engrams you'd think GW would transhumanity idea of having at least important leaders brains backed up on computers and downloaded into bodies whenever needed. It would solve the short lifespan problem and be different from the Imperium using technology to make them physically immortal. Just make it prohibitively expensive to do something like having an army of Shadowsuns.

[Captain_Krash]

SfPanzer.

 

Why no Carbines for strike teams?

 

Also

 

You should seriously write up a term paper on your thoughts for each and everything in the codex. Your insight and knowledge is seriously appreciated(Especially to the Tau community on these boards). I thoroughly enjoy reading what your putting down. Once again.

 

Thank you

 

 

Krash

[Skaorn]

Carbines are the middle child of Firewarrior weapons. Depending what you want to do with your squads, you'll get better performance from either rifles or blasters.

[9x19 Parabellum]

SfPanzer.

 

...

You should seriously write up a term paper on your thoughts for each and everything in the codex. Your insight and knowledge is seriously appreciated(Especially to the Tau community on these boards). I thoroughly enjoy reading what your putting down. Once again.

 

Thank you

 

 

Krash

 

As much as I'd love to read that, I'm sure SFPanzer has better things to do than write a term paper for us :-)

[Panzer]

I used to do something like that for WHFB back in the days but it's honestly not worth the work. Things get outdated too quickly and need to get maintained constantly. Your best bet for something like that is the 1d4chan tactics page once it got updated ... if it gets updated. It's not always 100% correct and includes lots of memes but at least the 7th edition tactics page was pretty helpful to get a first feel for the army.

 

Last tme I checked it was just a copy of the 7th edition tactics and a bit of WIP, but I just saw that some work got done so it might be worth checking out. I think 1d4chan links are blocked here since I can't post when the link is included. Just google for "1d4chan Tau 8th edition tactics".

Edited March 19, 2018 by sfPanzer

[Captain_Krash]

Understood SfPanzer it's all good. Just giving you praise where praise is due.

 

Does anyone think Tau will be competitive at a NOVA/LVO ITC style of gaming? Or no due to lack of shenanigans? Just curious as Psyker armies have been leading the front in this regard and well we don't have that option.

 

(*Note I'm not a WAAC player but like to read/watch these style of games/competitions)

 

 

Krash

[Panzer]

Much appreciated. 

 

I honestly have no clue. We can have a super strong alpha strike with Crisis (a FSE Crisis unit with CIBs for equal points can, with help of the FSE Stratagem and a Markerlight, kill something as sturdy as Mortarion in one turn) and Sa'Cea is a phenomenal support Sept for competetive lists (add a Vanguard Detachment with a Commander and 3 Firesight Marksmen and you're golden) plus there are some other things worth trying out. I just don't know if it's enough against the super competetive lists.

Then again I've seen a Primaris Raven Guard list doing decent with basically just a huge Aggressor + Captain infiltration supported by Intercessors in Repulsors so there's that ...

[Trevak Dal]

I traded most of my Tau for $100 and 4000 Warframe platnium. I lost money compared to what I put in, but I didn't trash it at least and after watching 10+hours of videos I kinda know how to play Warframe.

 

Its weird, I feel better not having it around anymore. Think I might get rid of my chaos too.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Trevak Dal