Death Guard Tactica: Deep Threat Issues: Tau, Astra, etc

[Prot]

I'm just curious how other DG players are handling going against mega shooty, castle up, fire base armies.

 

I think with Tau around the corner this issue I have is about to be magnified a lot.

 

Right now I'm not big on Mortarion, I think with Tau out he will be far less usable almost the second the codex hits the shelves. (I could be wrong... just guessing).

 

What I've been trying is Blightlords, deep striking Termie Lords (re roll aura), and even Deathshrouds. I've tried 5 man squads of Blightlords and they're of marginal effect... unless I include a Lord or go to 10  Blightlords. 

 

It's becoming a real issue since we do play good line of sight blocking terrain tables. It takes forever for my DG to reach those lines, and the model count issues often prevent the slow movement towards a very painful block of Astra, or whatever is castled up. 

 

The 10 man squad of Blightlords is often laced with Combi Melta... ( personal note: I've experimented several times and I am firmly against plasma in this role, but some people swear by it.) ... the real issue here is not weapon choice, instead I'm finding the problem is cost. The unit can be a real firm cannonball but the rest of the army feels far to light to pose a real threat. 

 

So how are you guys resolving this? Do you see Tau as forcing this issue even more so? Which approach do you find works better: Speed off the line, or deep striking/infiltration?

[USNCenturion]

Have you tried a “more boys less toys” approach with DG? Saturating the board with MSU plague marine units with one or no special weapons seems like it can provide too many low reward targets for the Tau to handle before they reach combat. I feel like DG is easy to overkit; just because each squad can take 2 or more special weapons doesn’t always mean they should. I’m just not sure how many points can effectively be saved by limiting special weapons and if it’s worth it in the end.

 

It could also lead to one or two wiped squads per turn, who knows. Just a suggestion to consider or discuss.

[McElMcNinja]

I've been thinking about this too. I have been contemplating running 2 rhinos full of marines, 1 equipped for CC and the other shooty bits. Put a Lord, Tallyman, Foul Blightspawn, and maybe a Surgeon. Deep strike 10 Terminators with either another Lord or even Typhus.

[Prot]

Good thought and I’m going to be 107% honest about your question....Nope. I have not tried more boys, less toys.

 

For two reasons; one I’m a sucker for cool models and the elite characters, and HQ’s are very hard for me to resist.

 

Two - I haven’t seen it really work reliably. I’m talking really stripped down stuff, moving fairly slowly up the board with very few buffs. Even when I do try this in limited games, I’ve had Astra rip me a new one with flame tanks guarding lots of indirect fire. The problem being two fold with this approach: there is no deep pressure, combined with; slow speed.

 

What you’re suggesting if I understand you is forgoing most buffs and load outs , including deep striking.. but what I’ve wanted to try is a true foot slogger with 3 Myphitic Blight Haulers, with Gift of Contagion cast on them, escorting Plague marines and Poxwalkers with something heavy hitting mixed in.

 

I haven’t honestly tried that. I kind of tried it with Blight Haulers but too many toys perhaps and I never made it to Astra front lines.

 

I like the idea though but the magic is finding that ratio I suppose.

[SkimaskMohawk]

So the general issue is that we don't have a lot of guns that have long range impact, our best stuff is 18-24" or a flamer variety. The exception to these are las preds and dakkabrutes.

 

Guard will usually have a bunch of tanks with tons of chaf, while tau have elite units like broadsides and then their big suits. Both cases melee is a poor option because of the bubble wrap of guard and the combined overwatch and fly mechanics in tau (and maybe kroot screens). So we're back to shooting.

 

We can do the long range route with preds and dreads. Might not be as points efficient, not sure, but high potential to do a bunch of damage. Eggs in basket though with preds.

 

You can do a foot slogging msu approach with launchers, contaminator and a Blightbringer to get you an average of 9.7" move for a total of 33" threat range. Not too bad, but depending on if you have ablative wounds it doesn't take a lot to start killing off special weapons.

 

You can deepstrike terminators, but Melta shouldn't be able to get in range against guard and gets you in intercept range against tau. Plasma requires dedicated support to make sure it fries a threat.

 

Then there's the flamer route. In which you load up on drones or PBCs and use their faster movement plus durability to mitigate range. The auto hits on good strength and rerolling 1s can smash blobs and threaten vehicles.

 

The one other issue you might not have considered is that if you play against a lot of guard and tau who use barrage weapons to output a lot of damage in general, then los terrain isnt preventing anything in terms of hurting shooting lists. Food for thought

[USNCenturion]

I don’t think you need to forego any of the characters or even a unit of termies, rather just limiting the amount of special weapons in the force. Indeed, I’ve been toying with a vanguard detachment to bring my CP up to the magnificent and useful 7; Plaguecaster HQ and then a sawbones, Tallyman, and bell ringer for the elites. These guys all help out with the foot slogging marines and maximizing the CP with the Tallyman. The Battalion detachment can then be whatever mix you like. In the case of my suggestion, a blightlord block for hard hitting deep strike and lots of small, low point marine squads hopefully making use of good DR rolls and advancing with bellman and surgeon support.

 

The list I just whipped up, heavily summarized:

 

DP warlord with suppurating plate and blades of Putrefaction

Typhus with miasma and putrescent vitality

 

Cultist and Zombie squad

3-4 PM squads with any flavor of one blight launcher/flail/plasma gun

Blightlord termy squad with melta, plasma, flail

 

2 spitter drones

2 cannon crawlers

 

Vanguard detachment of plaguecaster, Tallyman, surgeon and bellman

 

It’s around 1880 or so as is, so there’s room to adjust as desired. It’s not full on dedicated to maximum plague marines, but you get 7 CP and use of some special toys and characters for fun.

 

Could be utterly useless and ridiculous, but again, could be worth a try or two.

Edited March 11, 2018 by EnsignJoker

[DuskRaider]

I'll deal with gunline Tau the same way I've always done so and you had pointed it out already... deep striking Terminators. Combi-Plasma, Combi-Melta, and even Reaper Autocannons will tear their tanks to shreds. Or they used to in prior editions, but I've only faced Tau once since 8th and he didn't use a single tank. 

[Panzer]

T'au tanks really aren't the problem tho even with their decreased points. Battlesuits are still the way to go and those can get protected by Drones so they're likely to survive most alpha strikes (or are in reserves themselves in the first place).

If there's one thing you probably shouldn't do against T'au, it's to put a lot of points into a single unit. With their Markerlights and how some of the Stratagems etc. work they are best at destroying key units each turn but struggle when they have to split their shooting too much.

[Aothaine]

Are you dead set on reaching their lines? Because you can play the objective game against them. Make sure you setup objectives in cover or behind los blocking terrain. Do this and you should be able to camp your marines in safe positions and play the objective game to pull the T'au out of their hidey-holes. 

 

Working on a competitive Death Guard list myself. Death Guard are a really interesting army. They are tough as nails and have decent output. But fall to spam laser tag. Force enough saves and you're going to have issues.

 

You could also try this.

 

5-10 Terminator Squad with HQ Terminator and two flying Daemon Princes that rush up the board. Then you gear out the rest of your force for long range fire support and objective taking. 

 

Just an option. Most camp armies should have an issue with two Daemon Princes and a unit of 10 terminators. 

[Wolf Lord Loki]

One of my friends has just started a tau force so combatting them has now become a priority for me. One thing i did notice when reading throught their Index entry is that when they use the supporting fire the unit that makes a supporting overwatch cant then fire again

 

Now i dont know if thats changed in the codex but it does suggest that setting up multiple one-on-one fights might be an option

 

For example: i want to charge a unit of crisis suit with my deathshroud. He has 2 units of firewarriors in range to offer supporting overwatch.

In order to have a clear run at the crisis suits i need to charge each of the firewarrior units fist to either engage them in combat (no more overwatch from them) or bait a supporting overwatch from the crisis suits (which uses up their overwatch for when the terminators charge)

 

With such tactics the LoC might actually be a worth while choice with his high strength weapons and vectoring of plagues to every one within 7"

 

Also a pod cast i've been listening to from Chapter Tactics advices that you dont want to be taking long charges at the Tau. If you decide to throw your daemon prince in from 10" away you are likely to fail and get hammered by multiple squads overwatching at you. Transports may become key to ensuring you arrive withing the 2-8" safe zone of charging. Push comes to shove- disembark behind the transport and use it as cover for a turn

Edited March 25, 2018 by Wolf Lord Loki