Hyped for Russ - guessing at the rules :-)

[Ishagu]

Hey all. So, I saw the shout out for more discussions round these parts of B&C and thought I might add a fun topic. I'm hyped for Russ returning to 40k - I've been collecting Primarch models since Forgeworld came up with the excellent Horus, and would definitely hope to run both Russ and Gulliman in Apoc games once he's released.

So "apparently" he'll have two different models, but who knows what that actually means? He might be riding a giant wolf, or have a hulked-up mutated form.
Anyways, we could guess at his stat-line and rules from looking at Guilliman? I've made up a few random weapons lol


Leman Russ - 400 points in matched play

M 8"   WS 2+   BS 2+   Str 7   T 6   W 9   A 6   LD 10   SV 2+

Weapons:
-The Spear of Russ - Str+2 Ap-3 Damage 2
Special Rule - Piercing Strike: Wound rolls of 6+ inflict 3 Mortal wounds instead of the Normal Damage.
-Black Ice - Range 18, Assault 2, Str 6, Ap-2, Damage D3
Special Rule - Targets don't gain the benefit of cover from wounds inflicted by this Weapon and units with the Psyker keyword suffer a mortal wound for each hit in addition to the normal damage.

Special Rules:
-And they Shall Know no Fear
-Armour of Winter: Confers a 4+ invulnerable Save and a 5+ Resilience roll against Mortal Wounds
-The Great Wolf: If Leman Russ is your Warlord and your army is Battle Forged, receive an Additional 2 Command Points. In additon, in any turn in which Leman Russ has charged increase his number of attacks to 8
-Hidden Wisdom: Add 1 when rolling to seize the Initiative. In Addition, select a single infantry unit in your army - it may deploy in reserve and enter the battle from any board edge during your movement phase. This unit must end it's movement more than 3+D6" away from any enemy units and may not advance on the same turn it arrives.
-Primarch of the VI: All friendly Space Wolf units within 6" can re roll all failed hit rolls, and re-roll failed wound rolls of 1. In addition, once per battle you can select a single Space Wolf unit within line of sight of Leman Russ that was not deployed during this turn (Including Leman Russ himself) - that unit may advance and charge in the same turn, and may re-roll the dice when determining the charge distance.

Warlord Trait:
The Hunt - Enemy units locked in combat with your warlord may not leave combat during their turn.

Imperium, Adeptus Astartes, Space Wolves
Character, Monster, Primarch, Leman Russ



I think something like this would be pretty cool.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Ishagu

[Wolf Guard Dan]

That's a good start. Those are some interesting mechanics you have come up with. The 2 command points is seems right. Not as good as RG in that respect, but also not insulting as a 1 CP boost.

 

His Primarch trait probably won't be worse than RG's. The rerolls won't just be for rolls of 1 but for all hit and wounds. I wouldn't be surprised if this just becomes the same thing as RG's primarch buffs to his Chapter and Imperium units.

 

That Hidden Wisdom rule is really neat. I would love to get that trait.

 

I think he comes back with the spear. And I expect him to be better than RG in combat.

[Ishagu]

Yeah I'm not super clued up on the weapons he has in his collection. A spear would certainly be more in line with the Odin vibe.

 

Anyways, GW - feel free to use my ideas! Lol

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello Ishagu, welcome to the Fang.

 

I suspect the fluff Russ will get shall define the two forms as Rune Priest "Human" Russ, and a werewolf Russ. Now, don't get me wrong; if this transformation is one way, then that shows just how little GW knows its own fluff. If, however, Russ can control which form he is in per turn, and change willingly back and forth, that seems far more like a wise old Wolf-blooded post-human to me!

 

I'd suspect Russ to have more of the following:

 

M 6"   WS 2+*   BS 2+   S 7   T 8   W 9   A 6   Ld 10   Sv 2+

Russ' Special Rules:

- Alpha Wolf: Leman Russ and any unit within 10" ignore any and all Morale phase tests. Furthermore, all Space Wolves units in the army Russ is leading may treat their Leadership as 1 higher, and never ignore the And They Shall Know No Fear rule, even if another rule says otherwise.

- Rune Priest: Mastery Level 4

*-And they Shall Know no Fear

*-The Great Wolf: If Leman Russ is your Warlord and your army is Battle Forged, receive an Additional 2 Command Points. In additon, in any turn in which Leman Russ has charged increase his number of attacks to 8

- Master of the Hunt: All Wulfen units may choose which chart and which die roll result is the generated effect, per unit so affected, for each other Wolves unit that is under the effects of the Curse of the Wulfen

*-Primarch of the VI: All friendly Space Wolf units within 6" can re roll all failed hit rolls, and re-roll failed wound rolls of 1. In addition, select a single Space Wolf unit within line of sight of Leman Russ (Including Leman Russ himself) - that unit may advance and charge in the same turn, and may re-roll the dice when determining the advance distance.

- Mastered Self Skinchanger: Russ can change forms, increasing his Strength to 9, his Toughness to 10, doubles his attacks (12), and gains Resilience 2. Resilience means for every 2 wounds dealt, Russ takes 1 wound. In addition, multiple wound damage results inflict a maximum of 2 wounds, per individual hit. This maximum of 2 wounds taken includes mortal wounds dealt to Russ, as well. When Russ is in his changed form, his Mastery level is 2. Russ still knows all the powers he knew before.

- The Will-forged Blade: Russ can choose, once per turn, to change forms; this must be done at the start of the turn.

(I'm pretty curious what Psychic Powers Russ would be given access to...)

* - Ishagu's idea, not mine.

 

Wargear:

- Warplate of Russ (Runed Runic Armor, 2+, 5++)

- Runic Iron Wolf Amulet (3++)

- Wyrdwender (Weapon)

- Mjolnir (Weapon)

 

Weapons:

- Wyrdwender: Str +2, AP -3, Damage 2+D3

Special Rules:

- Threadcutter: This weapon may reroll any missed to-hit rolls when used as the declared melee weapon in the fight phase, including when the wielder's WS is modified.

- Helfrost Blade: This weapon deals D3 mortal wounds on a to-wound roll of a 6.

- Runic Weapon: This weapon counts as a Force Weapon
- Bladeguard Grip: This weapon is permitted to be Hammered Home. See below.

 

Mjolnir

Ranged: Str 6, AP -1, Damage 1

Melee: Str +3, AP -2, Damage 3

Special Rules:

- Hammerhead: This custom built bolt pistol mounted within a one-handed thunderhammer (for Russ) is able to be used as either a Bolt Pistol, or as a hammer in the fight sub phase.

 

Combined special attack option:

Hammer Home: Russ may elect to use Mjoinir to hammer home Wyrdwender. To do so, each attack must be separately considered; roll each attack individually until the target is hit. Then, if Russ is using this special attack, roll to hit with Mjolnir. If the attack is successful, Mjolnir slams down on the Bladeguard of Wyrdwender, sending the blade into the target already hit, by both attacks. If Russ' target is slain, Wyrdwender must successfully hit a new target, and then Mjolnir must additionally hit that same target, for this process to continue. Repeat on each target until all of Russ' attacks are used up for that Fight sub phase. Hammer Home replaces the attack profile for both Wyrdwender and Mjolnir with the following weapon profile.

Hammer Home: Str +3, AP -3, 3+D3 Mortal Wounds.

 

I expect this version of Russ to be expensive; however, he'd likely be SO much fun!

 

500, maybe 600 point range, and this Russ, including some of Ishagu's ideas, could be absolutely brutal.

[Xwingt65]

I am hyped for Russ too. Unless he is in some stupid wulfen form. Then I am not hyped lol.

[Ishagu]

Karack, your Russ idea is very powerful - comparable to the Daemon Primarchs in fact. I think the cost you've suggested is fair, but do you not feel that a more toned down, similar version to Guilliman with comparative cost of 300-400 would be more usable?

 

The whole multiple forms rumour is a strange one I must say. I feel if he transforms into a more powerful state it would have a big cost attached to it... I wonder if that would be mandatory also, or if you could choose to run a single form? Hmmm

[Triszin]

WOuld russ have a ranged weapon?

 

I could see a new version of his armor that deals mortal wounds (helfrost wounds) to any enemy within 6"

 

 

 

 

Karack, your Russ idea is very powerful - comparable to the Daemon Primarchs in fact. I think the cost you've suggested is fair, but do you not feel that a more toned down, similar version to Guilliman with comparative cost of 300-400 would be more usable?

The whole multiple forms rumour is a strange one I must say. I feel if he transforms into a more powerful state it would have a big cost attached to it... I wonder if that would be mandatory also, or if you could choose to run a single form? Hmmm

 

if he is to have 2 forms, I feel it should be decided before the game, to allow the player which version they want to run. This would please the greatest number of people. especially if he has a wulfen form and it is awful, then everyone would just run the human form

Edited March 13, 2018 by Triszin

[Ishagu]

WOuld russ have a ranged weapon?

 

I could see a new version of his armor that deals mortal wounds (helfrost wounds) to any enemy within 6"

Yeah I think so! A pistol at least?

[Solrac]

If the multiple forms rumour is true maybe it would be Russ's version of the self rez Guilliman has?

 

E.g when reduced to Zero Wounds he enrages turning into a Wulfkin. Ressurect with D6 wounds and add 1 to all stats.

 

Just a thought. It's all very cool.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Every sane primarch worth his salt will have a range weapon, even Angron had a plasma pistol. 30K weapon range weapon was supposedly a bolter in the shape of a pistol (ala Grey Hunter) forged by Vulkan. Not that he'll use it often or have great impact.

 

I like Ishagu's rules, except for the wolf Claw bit. Traditionally he is depicted with a Frost sword. now WHAT a frost sword is is up to interpretation. It is either a fancy power sword with jagged edges made of Kraken teeth (essentially the beaks or sucker claws of a damn giant squid), or an actual chainsword like Dorn's with the "teeth" of a Kraken or other diamond hard material.

 

And then there's the so called Spear Of Russ which Emps gave Russ and isn't even part of his official armory, it was just some last minute troll weapon given to Russ to try stop Horus, almost a half hearted gesture which Russ got stomped for his troubles, if I interpret what happened at Yarrant correctly. Again, I wouldn't be averse to it, due to the Odin references, except that Russ isn't Odin, but a weird combination of Thor and Baldor. (No Marvel references please, Scandinavian only)

 

As much as I hate the idea, I can't help but feel that in order to battle daemon primarchs, Russ may need a werewolf form of some sort to achieve their level of toughness and strength. In such a state, I think he should lose all his army buffing which should be similar if as good as Guilliman, in return of a pure killing machine.

 

The point cost for such a model would be misleading though, as maybe we'll have to reserve some points if we want him to go monstrous creature mode. Also model wise, the cost will be crazy if they pack two such models, one normal, and one werewolf mode. Unlike Morathi who does have two models, Russ isn't a small model and isn't so interchangeable.

[MaveriK]

Druid/Odin Russ and Veteran Russ? I’ll take it. But I would love to see him return as a walking anti-psyker killing machine, who is pretty much a walking deny the witch/wolf tail talisman of old... LMAO

[postxhumanity]

8th edition features a number of elite melee units that are able to hit in close combat on a +2; in a number of cases they may also have access to rerolls. For the most part the simplified weapons skills of 8th work well enough. The thing is, there's an issue that I think will more pronounced than ever in 8th ed 40k with the arrival of Leman Russ: not much of anything in the galaxy should be able to hit him on a +2 in melee. I mean, consider Guilliman. He hits on a +2, rerolling misses because he's a primarch and a great warrior. But as a warrior he was never the equal of Russ, who stands out as an amazing skilled warrior among the Primarchs. I hope the rules reflect Russ' amazing close combat skills. I'd hate to see it become a very viable tactic for a unit like Guilliman, or Deathshroud Terminators (anything that hits hard and fairly reliably in melee) to charge Russ and whoop on him just because they get to fight first. 

 

To reflect Russ' amazing close combat skill, I'd like to see his 40k model have a rule along the lines of his Forgeworld, 30k counterpart. Off the top of my head, I believe all units suffer a -1 to hit rolls against Russ in melee on the first turn of combat, and a -2 to hit every turn after that in 30k (it's a byproduct of his armor, which drastically lowers the temperature of the area immediately surrounding him). 

 

In short what I'm saying is this: elite close combat specialists from all armies are capable of hitting reliably and hitting hard in 8th. Russ' rules should reflect the fact that his close combat skills were elite even among the primarchs and as a warrior he was all but peerless in the galaxy. He should have defensive capabilities beyond an invul save.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I'm thinking this for the spear:

 

Melee: STR 2x ap -3 D 3 on a tunrn im which russ charged ap -4

Ranged: assault 1 STR 8 ap-3 D 3

 

I hope he comes in around 400 like Big G as that's a reasonably playable value I think.

[Melete]

I'm borderline gonna stop playing Wolves if Russ ends up being a werewolf or transforms into one. Ugh.

[Ishagu]

The only thing about transformations is the points you'll need to leave for them in matched play that worries me. I think a point cost similar to Guilliman's is totally workable but leaving say, an additional 200 or so points for a transformation starts to erode your force away :-/

 

I've updated the weapon based on feedback. A spear is a great idea. Also, I quite fancy the idea of him wielding a black stones pistol of some kind, hence the extra damage to psykers.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Ishagu

[Kasper_Hawser]

The only thing about transformations is the points you'll need to leave for them in matched play that worries me. I think a point cost similar to Guilliman's is totally workable but leaving say, an additional 200 or so points for a transformation starts to erode your force away :-/

 

I've updated the weapon based on feedback. A spear is a great idea. Also, I quite fancy the idea of him wielding a black stones pistol of some kind, hence the extra damage to psykers.

 

Exactly what I said about leaving points for him to eventually transform, assuming it isn't something that can be activated, and isn't random.

 

about your update, I think the Spear of Russ is a little lacklustre compared to the emperor's sword and hand of dominion. I think it'll need something that can dish mortal wounds rather than regular damage.

 

Perhaps a D3 wounds on a wound roll of six, although that is nearly copy paste from the Emperor's sword. Ishagu, I leave it to your imagination on someting different.

 

On the armour part, I think -1 to hit in CC on first round and then -2 to hit in subsequent rounds will be sufficient to reflect his superior weapon skill. This will be balanced by the mere 4++  invlun which is kinda bad for a primarch.

[Ishagu]

Yeah, possibly! Do you think the spear should be a superior weapon to the Sword of the Emperor or should Russ deal more damage through other means? I tried to offset that buy giving Russ more attacks and the ability to ignore Invuls. In my mind I had the Odin Russ idea, perhaps a more tempered warrior but a more wise General and Leader with unique deployment and movement manipulation for his forces.

As for negative hit modifiers, perhaps through the addition of psychic powers via other units? I'd want GW to keep his points below the 400 mark. Guilliman as is can be a bit of a drain on available resources when you factor in you'll need two additional HQs to unlock a Battalion on top of his costs, and Marine don't have cheap 30 point commanders available as HQ choice lol.

The Daemon Primarchs are different due to their massive damage output, flying mobility and psychic might - as well as existing in armies that can field cheap, disposable hordes. (I'm aware Imperium can if you build a soup).

[NatBrannigan]

Can't imagine any combat weapon in the Imperium should be better than the sword of the Emperor.

 

At the same time Russ should be better in combat than Gulliman clearly so it'll be tricky to balance.

 

Really want to like Russ when he returns but, this being GW, I'm afraid of one of three choices... Giant wulfen Russ that looks as utterly stupid as the new Wulfen models, Russ riding an even bigger Santa sleigh (Wolf sleigh of the Wulfen or something...) than Grimnar or Russ riding a mega thunderwolf (Superwolf wulfenwolf?)

 

Just a nice normal model, a Space wolf version of Gulliman, that's all I want! Please?

 

Did Russ's pet wolves go with him when he disappeared? Are they coming back with him?

[Jarl Caldersson]

Can't imagine any combat weapon in the Imperium should be better than the sword of the Emperor.

 

 

 

The emperor made the spear, so I don't see why it wouldn't be as powerful

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Really want to like Russ when he returns but, this being GW, I'm afraid of one of three choices... Giant wulfen Russ that looks as utterly stupid as the new Wulfen models, Russ riding an even bigger Santa sleigh (Wolf sleigh of the Wulfen or something...) than Grimnar or Russ riding a mega thunderwolf (Superwolf wulfenwolf?)

 

Just a nice normal model, a Space wolf version of Gulliman, that's all I want! Please?

 

Did Russ's pet wolves go with him when he disappeared? Are they coming back with him?

 

I second that but instead of space wolf version, more like SCANDINAVIAN VIKING VERSION OF GUILLIMAN PLEASE!

 

A manly, bearded (10,000 years should be long enough to grow a freaking beard), somewhat scruffy looking but still human Viking Russ please!

 

Also since i'm jumping on the Viking trope, can we change the spear into a two handed long handle axe? Make it two handed without making it into a halberd or polearm. Vikings were actually more famous for using axes, which doubled as combat weapons AND building their famous long ships. 

 

OK, enough of that. Never mind that I am a Space Wolf player, i don't know why in recent years I've been very interested in the history of Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Finland, both pre Christianization and post. I think its because despite the small size of those countries, at one time they terrorized most of europe, and even in the last few centuries, they managed to give the Russians and Germans a heck of a fight (barring Sweden which was neutral at the same time through some political shenanigans). And Sweden apparently COULD HAVE been THE naval power instead of Britain if I interpret the Gustav period correctly. Can you imagine instead of English being Lingua frica, it is Swedish?

Edited March 14, 2018 by Kasper_Hawser

[Triszin]

I'm thinking this for the spear:

 

Melee: STR 2x ap -3 D 3 on a tunrn im which russ charged ap -4

Ranged: assault 1 STR 8 ap-3 D 3

 

I hope he comes in around 400 like Big G as that's a reasonably playable value I think.

I agree, the spear will more than likely be his primary Melee weapon, I could see a War axe as a secondary on his belt.

 

 

the spear also falls inline with the "ODIN" appearance as ODIN uses a spear.

 

 

I would add----

 

I'm thinking this for the spear:

 

Melee: STR 2x ap -3 D 3 on a tunrn im which russ charged ap -4

Ranged: assault 1 STR 8 ap-3 D 6

On a roll of a 6 add 1 mortal wound, for every 6 rolled

Edited March 14, 2018 by Triszin

[Jarl Caldersson]

Vikings most famous and common weapon was a spear. It was also Odin's main weapon.

[Triszin]

A thought I had...

 

What if Russ doesnt return with Freki and Greki.

 

I personally want him to, his Warp Ghost wolves.

 

what if instead, Russ returns with Morkai.

 

Morkai is a beast in the folklore of the people of Fenris. According to legend, he is the two headed dog of Russ, and guards the lowest hall of the dead.

 

what if morkai is greki and freki spirits merged into one, and larger than a tank.

A two headed God of Fenris.

 

along with a Raven from the Erkling.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Yeah a mortal wound makes sense, could even say on a 5 up the turn he charges and a 6 up in subsequent rounds.

[Papeu]

A thought I had...

 

What if Russ doesnt return with Freki and Greki.

 

I personally want him to, his Warp Ghost wolves.

 

what if instead, Russ returns with Morkai.

 

Morkai is a beast in the folklore of the people of Fenris. According to legend, he is the two headed dog of Russ, and guards the lowest hall of the dead.

what if morkai is greki and freki spirits merged into one, and larger than a tank.

A two headed God of Fenris.

 

along with a Raven from the Erkling.

I like the two head wolf idea! A super TW for Russ