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Advice for a new Catachan player


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#1
Dillybear

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I'm brand spanking new to Astra Militarum, but have always loved the fluff for Catachan Jungle Fighters. Recently I decided to nab some to make a cheap Battalion detachment to go with my Custodes army, but have decided that they deserve their own 2k list. I've come up with a list that I think not only fits the fluff well but could also be competitive. I'm hoping to get some insight, advice, and critiques before I start making additional purchases. Thanks in advance for any input.

 

 
++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [116 PL, 2000pts] ++
 
+ Flyer [16 PL, 336pts] +
 
Valkyries [16 PL, 336pts]
. Valkyrie [168pts]: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Lascannon
. . 2x Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy bolter
. Valkyrie [168pts]: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Lascannon
. . 2x Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy bolter
 
+ No Force Org Slot +
 
Regimental Doctrine: Catachan
 
+ Heavy Support [27 PL, 390pts] +
 
Basilisks [21 PL, 324pts]
. Basilisk [7 PL, 108pts]: Heavy Bolter 
. Basilisk [7 PL, 108pts]: Heavy Bolter 
. Basilisk [7 PL, 108pts]: Heavy Bolter 
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team [11pts]: Mortar
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
 
+ HQ [10 PL, 174pts] +
 
Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken [4 PL, 75pts]
 
Company Commander [2 PL, 34pts]: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol, Power sword, Warlord
 
Sly Marbo [4 PL, 65pts]
 
+ Elites [9 PL, 191pts] +
 
Command Squad [2 PL, 61pts]
. Veteran w/ Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer
. Veteran w/ Medi-pack: Lasgun, Medi-pack
. Veteran w/ Regimental Standard: Lasgun, Regimental Standard
. Veteran w/ Vox-caster: Lasgun, Vox-caster
 
Nork Deddog [4 PL, 80pts]
 
Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]
 
+ Fast Attack [36 PL, 585pts] +
 
Hellhounds [18 PL, 303pts]
. Hellhound [6 PL, 101pts]: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound [6 PL, 101pts]: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
. Hellhound [6 PL, 101pts]: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
 
Scout Sentinels [9 PL, 141pts]
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 47pts]: Autocannon
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 47pts]: Autocannon
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 47pts]: Autocannon
 
Scout Sentinels [9 PL, 141pts]
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 47pts]: Autocannon
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 47pts]: Autocannon
. Scout Sentinel [3 PL, 47pts]: Autocannon
 
+ Troops [18 PL, 324pts] +
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 50pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 62pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun 
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun 
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol 
 
Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 62pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun 
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun 
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol 
 
++ Total: [116 PL, 2000pts] ++

Edited by duz_, 14 March 2018 - 02:21 PM.
Removed upgrade costs


#2
holydiver

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Looks good but I don't know what your plans are for the infantry squads. Swap the Mortars for Grenade launchers or Flamers. Drop the Voxes and Medi-pack and give your Command squad more Flamers or Plasma. Also Plasma and Plasma pistols would be better on your Scions or Meltas if you're delivering them by Valkyrie.

Magnetize your Hellhounds and Sentinels. Needs more antitank. Lascannon Sentinels?

#3
Dillybear

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My main thought for the infantry squads was to use them for additional mortar fire and objective holding, although I guess 6 mortar squads should have that covered. I do like the idea of having a bunch of flamers running around, and not having to buy as many heavy weapon squads will make my wallet happy. Thanks for the input!



#4
Feral_80

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It looks nice but I think there is much room for improvements. But it depends on you - ie how much you want to stick to your idea of a thematic list vs how much you want to tweak it for competitive play.

 

In the latter case, I'd say:

 

- Command squads with banner, and esp. vox and medic are quite pricey and effectively useless

- Nork Deddog is an overpriced and less punchy Ogryn bodyguard

- There is no inherent advantage in takin mortars as Catachans - perhaps drop a few

- You seem to have far more Scout sentinels than you'd ever need. If you like Sentinels, try Powerlifters (although, keep in mind that they might be nerfed sooner or later). They rock with Straken

- If you drop all those vox casters you'll probably have the pts for just another Company Commander, which is much better

- On your (possibly two) Company Commander(s) you'll want either a relic sword (Blade of Conquest/Catachan fang) or a power axe or (even better) a power fist, not a power sword

- Consider adding at least a Priest, it really does wonders with Catachans

- Plasmas! Where are they? Drop those voxes and heavies from infantry squads unless you play ITC rules. And sprinkle plasmas all around - you'll definitely need them

- I assume Harker goes with the 3 Basilisks, but see above on plasmas. Btw, Basilisks are ok (do not expect miracles however), but you'll probably want to field Leman Russes at some point - possibly Conquerors

- I am not sold on the two Scions squads. They do not seem very thematic, and without their officer they are hardly worth it. I'd just go with more Catachans

- I know you'd need to rewrite part of the list, but no Catachan list is complete without its fair share of Bullgryns



#5
Tirak

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Your Valkyries are wasted points. They don't benefit from the Catachan doctrine buff since they're not <Regiment> and you don't have any units that make use of them for drop ins, i.e. mass plasma command squads, bullgryns or crusaders. Dump them for Punisher Vultures and you'll be in much better shape.

 

Vox Casters are too expensive for what they do, and while "Fire on my position" is cool, it's not work 5pts per squad, Feral's right, ditch them to pick up another Company Commander so you can spread out Kurov's Aquilla and Grand Strategist.

 

You're not making best use of your Catachan reroll, you need more Leman Russes. In the hands of Catachan's the Conqueror Russ is the most cost efficient Leman Russ in game at 24in.

 

You only ever need 3 Sentinels for deepstrike protection and they need to be spread out, not locked tight in vehicle squadrons.

 

Boltguns on Sergeants are a worthwhile expenditure of a single point per squad.


'Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.' -Osric the Loopy, Imperial Governor.


#6
duz_

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Hi Dilly!
Welcome to the Guard! biggrin.png

 

Catachans have some fluffy yet effective rules this edition! It will be great to see more on the table! smile.png
I'm sure your fellow commanders will have plenty of good advice for you.

A couple of housekeeping items, I've moved the thread into the Army List review section. As this post seems more directly related to your list.

However if you want to start a more general tactic thread and combine it with a WiP in the main barracks feel free! 

The Commissariat loves reports and pictures on painted models msn-wink.gif

 

I have also removed the upgrade point costs from your list, as this is against the forum rules

Generally speaking copy / pasting Battlescribe lists into B&C is also against policy, for a bit more info on how we generally run the army list section theres a write up here.

 

Looking forward to seeing your army grow and batrep's of your victories in the name of the Emperor! cool.png

 

If you have any questions feel free to speak to your local friendly Commissar. 


Edited by duz_, 14 March 2018 - 02:32 PM.


#7
Dillybear

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Thanks everyone for the advice/critiques, it's very much appreciated. And sorry for breaking any forum rules, I admit it's been a very long time since I've looked them over. I'm excited to start applying some of the ideas brought up here to a list, and even more excited to start building and painting everything as it comes in.



#8
patchestheclown

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Hey there, and welcome to the guard! Catachan have long been my favorite and the new codex makes them feel especially epic!! Gonna echo a few people here but the Catachan doctrine gives you re-rolls for number of shots on tanks, +1 S for infantry, and +1 LD when near a commander. I'd look to capitalize on these bonuses when building the list.

 

HQ - You only have 2 people giving out the LD buff and giving orders, I'd grab at least one more but I would try to get in another. Orders make the basic infantry squads and the mortars that much better and by bringing more you decrease your need for the vox-castors since its easier to keep your commanders nearby

 

Hellhounds - find the points somewhere to give them heavy flamers rather than the heavy bolters

 

Command Squad - command squads are one of my favorite units but sadly in 8th they suffer since they aren't characters and so can be targeted. Putting too many goodies on them makes the priority targets that your opponent can remove without too much difficulty. If I bring them I give them just a banner for some extra LD

 

Scout Sentinels - I love em! You've got almost too many imo, I'd only bring 3 and to make them extra catachan-y I give them heavy flamers! With their scout & regular move you can almost always get in range for turn 1 flame and assault. I find autocannon/lascannon ones best with Tallarn

 

Leman Russ Tanks - I can't recommend these enough, even just the base one with nothing but a cannon and a heavy bolter, 2d6 # of shots (with rerolls) at S8 D3 damage, these guys put in work!! I always bring a spearhead with a tank commander at least one russ and then all my basilisks, it gets you another CP and your russes actually get obj secured, which is hilarious. They help with heavy infantry and anti-tank

 

just my $0.02, it's probably worth a lot less teehee.gif

 

Cheers



#9
Dillybear

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So a few of you have mentioned the Leman Russ Conqueror being a good pick. I'm just curious/ignorant, but why is that preferred over other variants of Leman Russ?

*Edit*

A buddy of mine pointed out the coaxial rule, which I had somehow missed. Mystery solved.


Edited by Dillybear, 17 March 2018 - 07:18 PM.


#10
Dillybear

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So I've tweaked my initial list based on the advice above. I think the following still retains the fluffiness that I love while taking better advantage of the Catachan special rules. Also, it's roughly $300 cheaper to get what I'd need, which is definitely a perk. My thoughts are that the mortars would screen the Basilisks, with Harker and my Company Commander right in the middle for that sweet sweet rerolls and orders, while the infantry squads would be used more aggressively to take objectives and support the Hellhounds and Leman Russes.
 
Battalion Detachment - Catachan
 
HQ:
Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken - 75 pts
Company Commander w/ chainsword, laspistol, warlord, Kurov's Aquila, Grand Strategist - 30 pts
 
Troops:
3x Infantry Squads w/ flamer, Sergeant w/ chainsword and las pistol - 47 pts each
 
Fast Attack:
2x Hellhounds w/ heavy flamer - 110 pts each
 
Scout Sentinel w/ heavy flamer and chainsaw - 54 pts
 
Spearhead Detachment - Catachan
 
HQ:
Tank Commander w/ battle cannon, heavy stubber, lascannon, and plasma cannon sponsons - 243 pts
 
Fast Attack:
Scout Sentinel w/ heavy flamer and chainsaw - 54 pts
 
Heavy Support:
 

3x Basilisks w/ heavy bolter - 108 pts each

 

2x Heavy Weapons Squads w/ 3 mortars - 33 pts each

 

3x Leman Russ Conquerors w/ storm bolter, lascannon, and heavy bolter sponsons - 185 pts each

 

Vanguard Deatchment - Catachan

 

HQ:

Sly Marbo - 65 pts

 

Elites:

Command Squad w/ Regimental Standard, all armed with lasguns - 29 pts

 

2x Platoon Commander w/ chainsword and laspistol - 20 pts each

 

Sergeant Harker - 50 pts

 

Fast Attack:

Scout Sentinel w/ heavy flamer and chainsaw - 54 pts

 

Total: 2,000 pts



#11
patchestheclown

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looking great! Only real worry is that at 2,000 points you only have 3 troops, those 30 guardsmen will die real fast. Luckily you still have some obj sec through your russes but that could end up being something to worry about. Overall though, love the edits!



#12
BurntheHeretic

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Drop the extra´s on the Russes and you have room for 2 more infantry squads. Those Conquerers are going to be moving to get within 24, meaning you will have your lascannons hitting on 5´s, 6´s when damaged or targeting shrouded opponents. I doubt they will make their points back! 



#13
Dillybear

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Lack of troops was something I was concerned about as well. Another hiccup I've encountered is not being able to find Conqueror turrets anywhere. What do you folks use to represent them?