Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc

[FirstSonofHorus]

I could see Ravenor dying and Eisenhorn surviving. It just seems to fit the tragic arc of the characters. 

[Zuvassin]

Totally out of left field, but I've personally been hoping the King in Yellow is Dorn. Not because of the yellow reference, per say, but if they're going to bring Dorn back for 40k (which I feel is going to happen), turning him into a quasi mystical / mysterious force trying to resurrect the Emperor (the graels) as penitence for "failing" the Emperor would be a sweet way of doing that.

[DukeLeto69]

Reviving this thread because of the Dan Abnett video interview on Black Library Facebook (hopefully this link works)...

 

https://m.facebook.com/theblacklibrary/?refid=52&__tn__=C-R

 

About two thirds group he talks about getting back to writing Penitent and Pandaemonium (exciting news from horses mouth even though not new news). However, the real relevance is that from 25mins Abnett talks about how he has "something big" planned for the climax. Like IP and universe shaking big. He says "the biggest external shock that has happened in the Inquisitor cycle" and (paraphrasing) "people will say I can't believe he went there."

 

So big in fact that he has to get permission from GW/BL to do it!

 

Now assuming he gets permission then that doesn't say to me that the Yellow King is someone already in the Eisenhorn/Ravenor books. So not an in series character so not Rorken!

 

To me that sounds like some of our more out there speculation is closer to what he has planned such as Ahriman, Dorn, Alpharius, Lorgar, The Emperor!

 

For me the most satisfying, but probably a leap too far, would be The Emperor (or an avatar of His many fractured conscious).

Edited August 13, 2018 by DukeLeto69

[Lord_Caerolion]

Maybe the Star Child?

[Mellow]

I doubt they would have something so earth shatteringly plot advancing in an inquisition series. Plot advancement like that would be covered in some kind of Gathering Storm type “release” I imagine.

[DukeLeto69]

I doubt they would have something so earth shatteringly plot advancing in an inquisition series. Plot advancement like that would be covered in some kind of Gathering Storm type “release” I imagine.

You know a couple of years back I would totally agree with you but with the way GW have been switching things up lately I don't know. I still agree it would be "plot advancement" as that belongs to the studio. However, something that has a big impact on known lore is, as implied by Abnett, possible.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

Really interested in what it could be, I cannot see Eisenhorn surviving the series which for me would be heartbreaking as I feel so close to his character throughout this entire journey.

[Carach]

surely a returning primarch cannot be it - the timelines don't fit?

[Lord_Caerolion]

Unless it's not them returning, but rather proof that they're still alive? Finding evidence of Dorn in hiding would be a massive reveal, and still leave time until he decides to act openly again.

[DarkChaplain]

I honestly cannot see Dorn involved here. Not in the slightest. Certainly not as Yellow King.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Fair enough, I haven't actually read this as of yet. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

[b1soul]

Yellow King is Valdor perhaps?

[1ncarnadine]

To me that sounds like some of our more out there speculation is closer to what he has planned such as Ahriman, Dorn, Alpharius, Lorgar, The Emperor!

 

Well. I have some more thoughts. Slaves to Darkness spoilers ahead, folks, and big ones, so probably read that first (it's worth it) and don't reply without tags, because these are spoilers not referenced by the thread topic and that book is still very fresh.

 

StD ends with Lorgar virtually exiled from his own Legion, betrayed by the gods in much the same way as the Emperor shattered Monarchia. He tries to usurp Horus's position to give the Gods true victory, but the Gods don't want that. They want 10,000 years of misery. They want Horus to fail. They want the Traitors to fail. Once again, Lorgar's vision for humanity has been denied by that in which he has placed absolute faith.

 

Lorgar's fate after is 100% mystery. We assume we know that he becomes a daemon prince, and maybe he is? Or maybe not! But it does leave him in a very particular position. Before I would have said that he was super into the Chaos Gods and, and I would question his motivation to be putting human souls into warp-bound forms such as the Graels. But now we know his character was in a more unstable place at the time of the Heresy. And of course, Word Bearers are involved in Pariah... and more importantly, note how Fulgrim now has a legitimate grudge against Lorgar for binding him in StD, and now consider this line from Teke in Pariah:

 

“Perhaps you will lead us to the rest of the Eight? Or find the fastness location of the King himself. My master Fulgrim would very much like that. The King is more of a threat to us than anything the False Emperor can devise.”

 

So it seems pretty credible at this point that the Yellow King might be Lorgar. We'll have to wait and see, of course, but StD definitely puts Lorgar in an interesting place.

Edited August 14, 2018 by LetsYouDown

[DarkChaplain]

It's a good bit of speculation. I'd just caution against retrofitting narratives that just got released to a novel that released like 6 years ago. While it'd be really cool and fitting, we can't really trust that Dan had those ideas in mind for his story already, or that the HH committee discussed them that long ago.

 

It'd definitely be something suitable going forward, and Dan did touch on the character before, so that'd make it more likely. But getting excited over recent reveals can be deceptive, considering the trilogy, at least conceptiually, is ancient history by now, even if Dan has still not gotten around to write the second part.

 

That being said, yes, I could see that fitting into the story nicely.

[1ncarnadine]

Yeah, especially the Teke bit would just be convenient. I agree that there's no way that was planned that specifically. 

 

I'm pretty sure that killing that character has been floated by the authors before (or was it just ADB?), and was (probably?) shot down. Maybe because Dan had this idea already, maybe not, who knows? But it seems like the authors have wanted to subvert what we thought would happen to him for a while now, and this would definitely be one way of doing it. Dan certainly has done something of this scale before with

Legion.

 

or I'm just way wrong. Again, we'll have to see, but at least it's fun to speculate...

Edited August 14, 2018 by LetsYouDown

[b1soul]

LOL...Lorgar makes more sense, dunno what I was thinking with Dorn or Valdor. These two are way too straight-laced to try some radical, convoluted plan

[Moonreaper666]

Actually, the story arc might end the same way as Khayon's teacher in the Black Legion novels

 

 

MAYBE the Yellow King is the EVIL FUTURE SELF of either Eisenhorn and Ravernor!

 

(Which can extend the story up to M42!)

 

 

(Or an opposite-sex-clone of Alizeth Bequin who somehow gone back in time)

[FirstSonofHorus]

Actually, the story arc might end the same way as Khayon's teacher in the Black Legion novels

 

 

MAYBE the Yellow King is the EVIL FUTURE SELF of either Eisenhorn and Ravernor!

 

(Which can extend the story up to M42!)

 

 

(Or an opposite-sex-clone of Alizeth Bequin who somehow gone back in time)

 

Both of these sound absolutely terrible.

[DukeLeto69]

 

Actually, the story arc might end the same way as Khayon's teacher in the Black Legion novels

MAYBE the Yellow King is the EVIL FUTURE SELF of either Eisenhorn and Ravernor!

(Which can extend the story up to M42!)

(Or an opposite-sex-clone of Alizeth Bequin who somehow gone back in time)

 

 

Both of these sound absolutely terrible.

Sorry @moonreaper666 but have to agree those are awful ideas ;-)

 

I am going to eat my hat (don't wear hats but hey ho) if the Yellow King isn't either Lorgar or The God Emperor.

[FirstSonofHorus]

Regardless, I really dislike the idea of it being some big 40k character(although signs indicate that it is), it doesn't fit with the scale of these books. I always saw them as more grounded and earthy. About the texture of streets and the hard graft of investigation. In this respect I really disliked Beta because it felt like it undermined Bequin's fate, although Pariah was a nice book. I'd vastly prefer that the Yellow King was Rorken, or some unknown. A nobody, a nothing. Because chaos is all.  

 

But then again Cult of the Spiral Dawn is my favourite BL book, so clearly I am an outlier.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka
Removed off-topic chatter.

[DukeLeto69]

I started this thread and then restarted it when Dan Abnett provided some up-to-date info in an interview. As @Firstsonofhorus says, this is a discussion about themes in a book series not news updates for game releases. It is natural therefore that info and discussion takes longer to flow.

Personally I welcome any and all discussion on these themes and ideas and think it would be diluted if the thread was closed and a new one was started. The mods make the rules so it would be their call but I do not see any harm in threads like this continuing as it is not news and rumours section.

I totally get that some folks would prefer TYK to be someone more self contained within the Abnett books because there is a danger of the 40k universe seeming too small if the big boys constantly turn up.

Then again I believe there is something cool about what started in a dark corner of the Imperium actually having far more fundamental and far-reaching ramifications and was bigger than we thought all along.

Both works and it will all be down to the execution.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka
Removed off-topic chatter.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I just kind of dislike it when every series has to drag back to the main few characters again. The Horus Heresy series has been particularly bad at this (and particularly McNeil), having countless callbacks to 40k. Make it something unique, like a traitor Imperial Fist, etc. The dark corner of the Imperium can still have far-reaching implications by being an event big enough to draw in Eisenhorn, a widely-renowned Inquisitor. It's a big universe, let's explore what's unknown.

[DarkChaplain]

I don't see how a traitor fist would make sense, or have far-reaching implications. A Traitor Astartes is nothing new, even from Loyalist Legions. It has to at the very least be big enough to shake up the Inquisition somewhat, at least in the sub. If it wasn't for John French's Horusian Wars, I'd even have considered a resurrectionist plot within the Inquisition in the Helican sub through the Cognitae.

[QuintusSertorius]

Late to the party, I've got some The Magos-related questions, having just read it. Slightly spoilerific, but not hugely so.

Firstly, in Xenos, Eisenhorn's face muscles were irreparably damaged by Glaw's torturer, such that he was no longer able to make expressions. I don't think it was a meaningless throwaway comment that he was able to smile at Drusher at the end, obviously his time in the Loom did something to him physically.

What else might it have repaired? His legs perhaps?

Also the vision scene Eisenhorn has when he sees his lost comrades and friends. Why weren't Godwyn Fischig or Tobias Maxilla there?

[1ncarnadine]

Firstly, in Xenos, Eisenhorn's face muscles were irreparably damaged by Glaw's torturer, such that he was no longer able to make expressions. I don't think it was a meaningless throwaway comment that he was able to smile at Drusher at the end, obviously his time in the Loom did something to him physically.

 

I don't think he's physically fixed in any way, because he shows up with the same impassive face and leg braces in Pariah. My feeling was that Drusher saw a psychic impression of Eisenhorn smiling.

 

Also the vision scene Eisenhorn has when he sees his lost comrades and friends. Why weren't Godwyn Fischig or Tobias Maxilla there?

 

He has a clear subconscious reason to not want to see one of these men in particular.