DarkChaplain Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 The problem I have with that line of reasoning is simply this: Why Valdor? Why would it be him, beyond him having worn golden armor and being missing? What's the reasoning for Valdor to pull up any of this from scratch, something that is so obviously dangerous to the Emperor, even if not by itself, but by the actions of the Cognitae working ground floor? There's a lack of motivation there. With Lorgar, you'd at least have tangible reasons of payback, if we were to assume he is trying to use the Graels to speak words of unmaking into the Corpse Emperor's ear. But what's Valdor to gain? With Rorken, or another Inquisition character, I personally quite like the way it rhymes and develops the theme of the entire series being more of an inter-Inquisition schism. And that's pretty much what the entire series has been: The Inquisition divided, suspicious of one another and even at one another's throats. Between Eisenhorn, Molitor, Voke, Heldane, Quixos, Osma, Ravenor, Lilean Chase, Endor's betrayal, or the Inquisitor(s) who sent Gideon to take down Eisenhorn... the Inquisition doesn't get along and works at cross-purposes. This can be beneficial, but it can also end up disastrous. And the whole philosophy-angle between the various groups has always been pretty central to the series as a whole. There's always been that central question of "where do we stand in this" - both by deliberate choice, necessity and involuntarily. Eisenhorn shifts without noticing or acknowledging it at first, Ravenor actively goes rogue, and the Bequin trilogy will undoubtedly have a lot to say about where Beta ends up standing in all of this. So in that sense, the fact that Lilean Chase is an ex-Inquisitor, in my eyes, is key here, as is her association with Rorken. It roots the external threat of the Cognitae back in an internal threat behind the scenes. It offers another avenue (or rather, two, between her and Rorken) for exploring the personal choices somebody involved may make to reach certain goals that - to them - may appear righteous, or justified, or necessary. Necessary evils is basically the Inquisition's whole thing! Having a big "the King in Yellow is actually Lorgar" type of reveal would detract a lot, thematically, I believe. It would firmly place an external threat on the map, one rooted 10k years in the past, in events that haven't been touched upon in the series, with a larger-than-life character that'd likely exceed the scope of the narrative and character connections. In the end, I think this series, with its 8 books so far, is simply too much of a "personal" story for that to really fit properly. Lucerne, DukeLeto69 and Carach 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) @DC really good thoughts and a compelling argument. I have always loved the internecine conflict within the Inquisition eversince the misnamed but evocative “The Inquisition Wars” by Ian Watson. As you know my favoured identity for TYK is actually The God Emperor (or an avatar of His multi-faceted consciousness) with the “big lore thing” being confirmation TGE is alive and operating within the immaterial universe manipulating/steering events in the material universe. That could work alongside (and even explain) an internecine conflict between Inquisitors, factions or whole Ordos. It would provide some nice twists within twists such as, perhaps, the Cognitae exist because TGE wanted them to exist. Edited December 30, 2020 by DukeLeto69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Valdor's motivation would require some potentially convoluted justification, yes. And I think Rorken is the "easy" choice from an author's perspective. Could slot him in as the YK easily. But to me, he's just a really boring choice. I'm the type of guy who likes macro-narrative bombshells to be incorporated into his BL novels. Another option is Omegon, but this is all pure speculation. I think the involvement of a larger-than-life YK could be somewhat ameliorated by strongly implying that the plots in Pariah make up only one of many parallel operations sponsored by the YK. Knockagh and Taliesin 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucerne Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Considering we know that the "yellow king" is a legacy title/role and the Cognitae itself is unlikely to be the "original"... DukeLeto69 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfred_the_great Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Minor divert - and forgive me if I’ve missed it - have they given release dates for the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malika666 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 I wonder what Cherubael's role in all this is going to be. Abnett has stated that at the end of the Bequin trilogy we would feel sorry/sympathy for that nasty daemonhost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 Minor divert - and forgive me if I’ve missed it - have they given release dates for the books? Not sure why but have it in my head it will be March Considering we know that the "yellow king" is a legacy title/role and the Cognitae itself is unlikely to be the "original"... You’ve lost me but I am intrigued. Care to explain further? alfred_the_great 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucerne Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Minor divert - and forgive me if I’ve missed it - have they given release dates for the books? Not sure why but have it in my head it will be March Considering we know that the "yellow king" is a legacy title/role and the Cognitae itself is unlikely to be the "original"... You’ve lost me but I am intrigued. Care to explain further? https://ibb.co/K0VX1zv ^ minor spoilers from Pariah that explain the definition of the "yellow king" Plus the Cognitae are stated in both the Inquisition and abnett's other books to be a commonly used name for different organizations throughout history that all use the fame of the "original"- it's a bit "Illuminati" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Given Dans work on the perpetuals and his announced desire to write pre imperium fiction for BL. I have a feeling he will use the yellow king to tie together his heresy/siege books with his 40k stuff and leaving the door open for the vein to go back to unity wars. We know the perpetuals had massive problems with the emperor and if any survive the siege they are unlikely to be happy at the direction things have gone in during his golden throne years. It could be a cool way to insert a side thread that would run right through Dans BL work. DukeLeto69 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 It's confirmed... John Grammaticus is the YK on a reincarnating basis Nineswords 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfred_the_great Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 It's confirmed... John Grammaticus is the YK on a reincarnating basis ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Makes no sense, considering John can't reincarnate anymore. Would absolutely suck if he was a Perpetual, however. That plotline is one of the worst things about any of Dan's novels outside of Legion - where it was a gimmick used well, but in an early draft version without the baggage that John would later get, including retcons, or the mess that Prytanis, Sureka and most notably Oll and Erda produced. Keep that stuff out of 40k. Dan can be self-indulgent enough as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) It certainly makes no sense to be John Grammaticus and I doubt that, but it could make sense to have another. I like the perpetual storyline. I’ve seen people dislike for it on here and never really understood it. I think the yellow king being one is a king shot but I wouldn’t be completely surprised if he used a vein from his own works and the perpetuals would, for me a least, make sense. Edited January 2, 2021 by Knockagh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Yes, John would be a hard shoe-in but another Perpetual as the YK would be an interesting twist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Hmmm I can see Dan going the perpetual route though personally I would prefer not! It would tie together the meta narrative Dan appears to be pulling together AND if this has wider ramifications for the lore/setting then yep he would need GW permission. Hard for me to reconcile with my own head cannon though (where I have hand waved away the perpetuals as avatars of the God Emperor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) Still think the easiest way for this to have lore-shaking impact but not over-step Abnett's own corner of the galaxy would probably be to have the Yellow King serve as a subordinate or even an indirect subordinate of a larger-than-life figure being reintroduced to the setting. Since Abnett is the BL father of the Alpha Legion...I do think Deathrow has a link with the big lore-drop in Penitent. Edited January 2, 2021 by b1soul Nineswords 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Do we even know for sure that the lore rattling reveal is the identity of the yellow king? It seems likely that it is but it could well be something else completely. 1ncarnadine, DukeLeto69 and DarkChaplain 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 It's possibly something else...but YK speculation has abounded since 2012/2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Do we even know for sure that the lore rattling reveal is the identity of the yellow king? It seems likely that it is but it could well be something else completely. We don’t for sure which is why on previous page I said TYK identity could be a macguffin The book blurb majors on TYK identity but that could be a distraction. However, the identity of TYK is a major point in Perihelion, The Magos and Pariah so we have all grasped that straw tightly! 1ncarnadine and malika666 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 It's confirmed... John Grammaticus is the YK on a reincarnating basis I'd appreciate you explaining the "it's confirmed" bit. By who? And where? malika666 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 It's confirmed... John Grammaticus is the YK on a reincarnating basis I'd appreciate you explaining the "it's confirmed" bit. By who? And where? Think it was a joke malika666 and Fire Golem 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 In that case, it flew right over my head. :sweat: Having just finished reading The Magos, I've been pondering on who the Yellow King might be. As others in this thread, I quite like the idea that it might be Lorgar (or a prominent Word Bearer) or the God-Emperor (or one of his avatars). Any news on when we might see Penitent released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 In that case, it flew right over my head. Having just finished reading The Magos, I've been pondering on who the Yellow King might be. As others in this thread, I quite like the idea that it might be Lorgar (or a prominent Word Bearer) or the God-Emperor (or one of his avatars). Any news on when we might see Penitent released? Pre-order is the 20th Feb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 @ DukeLeto69 Definitely a bad joke DukeLeto69 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 @ DukeLeto69 Definitely a bad joke Hey at least it was recognised as a joke. When I try it is ...tumbleweed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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