Fallen on Imperium detachments

[Michaelum]

As stated, lets say i want to include Cypher and and a couple of units of fallen into my loyalist space marines list. Since they have the Shadowy allies rules i was thinking i could do something like this:

 

Patrol Detachment:

 

-Cypher

 

-Fallen

 

-Fallen

 

-Scout Squad

 

But again Shadowy Allies only specifies legios trait not just trait. I haven´t found nothing about it that says they can be mixed with loyalist but seens weird they can be mixed much easier with chaos (More after the fluuf with Bobby G).

[Mr. Shine]

If you're running Cypher and the Fallen in their own detachment separately from the rest of your ADEPTUS ASTARTES units then you don't need to worry about their presence preventing other units from gaining Chapter Tactics.

 

In the example you've given however the Scout Squad would not gain Chapter Tactics as they are in the same detachment and not all units have the ADEPTUS ASTARTES and <CHAPTER> keywords.

[Michaelum]

I found it strange since the same list with chaos would have a Legion trait:

 

Patrol Detachment:

 

-Cypher

 

-Fallen

 

-Fallen

 

-Chaos Cultist

 

And as a Vanguard dechatment of Fallen is a bit too much to take.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

The Cultists would not get a Legion trait, for the same reason the Scouts wouldn't.

 

Neither Cypher nor the Fallen have the <Legion> Keyword.

[Eddie Orlock]

Neither Cypher nor the Fallen have the <Legion> Keyword.

C: CSM page 157 specifically exempts FALLEN units from factional requirements to gain a legion trait under the heading 'Shadowy Allies'.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

 

Neither Cypher nor the Fallen have the <Legion> Keyword.

C: CSM page 157 specifically exempts FALLEN units from factional requirements to gain a legion trait under the heading 'Shadowy Allies'.

Oops.

[Aothaine]

Apologize for the necro.

 

But, if you take a separate detachment of Fallen with your Imperium army. Make Cypher your warlord. Can you give Chaos relics to the Fallen? Also, can you use Chaos Stratagems on the Fallen?

 

Just curious.

[Gentlemanloser]

1: Relics.  You *could* give them relics.  Apart from the issue that the only Character is Cypher, and he can't have a Relic.  The Fallen are not Characters and therefore can't be given any Relics.

 

2: Stratagems.  I had a quick look and can't find a single Stratagem in the Chaos Codex that works on Cypher/Fallen.  They don't have the "HERETIC ASTARTES" keyword that most Stratagems are keyed too.

 

3: Cypher as Warlord.  He can never be given a Warlord Trait, so it's kind of a waste to make him your Warlord.  As you lose both a Warlord Trait and Free Relic (unless you use actual Chaos units) doing so.

[Aothaine]

1: Relics.  You *could* give them relics.  Apart from the issue that the only Character is Cypher, and he can't have a Relic.  The Fallen are not Characters and therefore can't be given any Relics.

 

2: Stratagems.  I had a quick look and can't find a single Stratagem in the Chaos Codex that works on Cypher/Fallen.  They don't have the "HERETIC ASTARTES" keyword that most Stratagems are keyed too.

 

3: Cypher as Warlord.  He can never be given a Warlord Trait, so it's kind of a waste to make him your Warlord.  As you lose both a Warlord Trait and Free Relic (unless you use actual Chaos units) doing so.

 

Good points. Thanks for checking in on that for me. So, if there is almost no reason to take him as your HQ his rule where he denies the Victory point is almost useless unless you're playing a Index Army. So, sisters of battle or maybe an assassin list? Even then you have 1W T4 3+ marines walking up the board because no transports work with them.

 

I'm trying to find a way to use these guys but GW is not making it easy. At least Cypher is a pretty decent character and would fit in some fluffy lists with him in an Outrider detachment for Astra Militarum or something.