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Scouts: aggressive tactics and load outs

- - - - - Raven Guard scouts 8th tactica

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16 replies to this topic

#1
TheGoldenThrone

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My scout units have survived nearly every game I've played in 8th (only about 10 games so far). I have experimented with boaters and sniper rifles, with and without camo cloaks, and with heavy weapons, yet my opponents seem to just leave them alone. Now this might sound like a good thing, especially since I use my scouts primarily to control board space at deployment and for holding objectives. They are doing almost everything I want them to do.

 

But I want them to be a bigger threat. So I am asking for some RG veteran wisdom: How do you equip and play your scouts for maximum impact? 

 

Do you consider camo cloaks to be a maybe or a must, or perhaps not worth the points? How many snipers does it take to be a threat? Do you use the shotgun or combat knife varieties? How many scouts do you put in a unit?

 

Do you use Land Speeder Storms? If so, how do you use them and equip them?

 

Thanks for the help!


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#2
Dracos

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Camo cloaksnare going to show up and disappear at different point levels in my army. They aren’t a must but definitely preferred.

Snipers almost a must for me. I thought about dirt cheap with bolters for quite a while but decided the potential for mortal wounds and picking off softer characters made them worth the cost.

I’m only running two 5 man squads. I suspect at 15 they get to be even more a nuisance. If you have the points add a missile launcher and I guarantee they start seeing more heat.
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#3
9x19 Parabellum

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Here's my 2 cents.

 

Scouts are never going to be a major threat...they just aren't. No one shudders at the thought of scout shooting or in close combat.  That's not what scouts are for. Scouts are there to provide cheap bodies to fill out your troop slots for battalion, and to gobble up real estate against deep strikers.

 

Sniper rifles and camo cloaks are both just too expensive.  I recommend avoiding them both.  Others might disagree; that's fine. The conversation has been done to death so do a little checking around as the arguments have already been made.

 

Missile launchers are ok, but my opinion is that heavy weapons belong on Devastators.

 

Heavy Bolters are pretty good all over the place, nice and cheap at only 10 points.  They can trigger the hellfire shells stratagem, and with 3 shots they aren't completely borked over if the unit has to move. 

 

With standard bolters and heavy bolters, you can leverage our chapter tactic for some time.

 

But part of what scouts do best is claim real estate to block deepstrikers.   For the forward scouts and/or anybody going into a land speeder storm, you can experiment with shotguns.  I've never used them myself but in theory they should work ok.

 

I'd leave pistol and combat blades to Blood Angels, who make better use of close combat due to red thirst.  For anyone else, 2 boltgun shots at 12" and 1 in close combat is better than 1 boltgun shot at 12" and 2 in close combat.


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The poster previously known as Rocmistro
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#4
duz_

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My experience is the opposite generally my scouts get wiped out fairly early on.
However I run 4 squads of various loadouts and have them quite close to enemy lines to deny deep strike and infiltrators.

My favourite this edition is definitely the bolter + HB combo. Although one squad of sniper scouts is nice. Having the ML with them is handy to harass armoured units and hordes. Although is expensive to run.

#5
Dracos

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Parabellum gives solid advice ... and the day they come out with some decent looking scouts I will probably march step right along with him.

Your question about how to make them more of a threat though, the only thing that’s going to do that is by spending points points on things that your opponent will have to address, even if reluctantly.

It’s my opinion that a lot of people have ideas about how certain units should work or whether they are good or bad. I think the truth of the matter is it really depends on the role you want that unit serve and how well it synergizes with the rest of your army build.

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#6
war009

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I ran a mostly scout army (5 5 man squads with various load outs) and gave my opponents headaches constantly. all squads had cloaks, 2 5 man squad bolter/ Missile launcher,  5 man sniper team/ heavy bolter, 5 man shotgun squad sgt power maul, 5 man melee squad sgt power maul, 4 scout bikes 2 GL and sgt power maul. they were supported by a chaplain, emperor's wrath bolter Captain, rifleman dread, and dakka predator. 

 

I would change the shotgun and melee squad out for more bolter teams as it fits raptors style better in my next game. 


Edited by war009, 19 March 2018 - 07:11 PM.

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#7
MajorNese

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The probably important part about scout deployment: It is done during regular deployment, not like SftS before turn 1. Meaning that they can keep areas free of deep strikers as well as other infiltrating units, and prevents your own infiltrating/deep striking units from getting kept out. Otherwise, I've made the same experience. Sniper scouts are situational, bolter scouts are invisible due to low threat level, but both are useful.


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#8
9x19 Parabellum

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I would add that one of the great things about scouts is precisely that they don't register highly on the enemy's threat meter.  It's always good to force your opponent into difficult choices.

 

-shoot the model/unit that can do a lot of damage

OR

-shoot the model/unit that is in place to score/block/deny deepstrike etc.

 

As soon as you have have a unit/model that achieves all of the above you make the targeting an easy choice for you opponent (assuming GW let it slip by that they made a high threat/high scoring model for a cheap price, which, for scouts, they didn't).


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#9
TheGoldenThrone

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Sorry if I missed any earlier thread(s) on the topic. I started thinking about it because I was running 2 x 5-man bolter squads with cloaks and the occasional HB, and I began questioning whether the Camo Cloaks were worth it. No one was shooting at my scouts, so why spend points on cloaks? Then I was like, wait a minute -- no one is shooting my scouts.

 

I primarily use them to secure forward space with Concealed Positions -- grabbing objectives if possible -- but also to deny mid-field deep strikes, and to secure room to drop in a unit or three with SftS. And they do a great job of those things. But I also want everything in the army to be a threat, to encourage tough decisions about target priority and to maybe encourage my opponent to spread shots too thinly around.

 

So to put pressure on buffing characters, assassins and psykers, I upgraded to sniper rifles for one squad of 5. They were pretty ineffective (but held objectives). Then I bumped the sniper squad up to 10, and boom! it got charged to shut down the shooting. Aha!

 

Has anyone tried using 15 or 20 snipers? Like 4 x 5-man squads of snipers? It's a lot of points, but is it worth to make characters sweat and change their plans?


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#10
war009

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watched a guy runa all sniper cloaked scouts at 1000 pts (took dual las cannon razorbacks for them huh.png ) it did not end well for him in the 3 games he played


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#11
seriade

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If you want scouts that start to register as high threat start taking the 3x3 scout bikes w a stormbolter sergeant.  They will probably get ignored at first but when they start doing i have  22 shots at 12" and move 14 they will suddenly become priority distraction/targets. 


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#12
war009

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yeah scout bikes are awesome



#13
MajorNese

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yeah scout bikes are awesome

Absolutely, the most underestimated lawnmower around. Though, without forward deployment or scout move, they are scout only in model and armour. The things a scout squad is intended to do can't be done by them, and the other way around.


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#14
jpwyrm

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I love scouts too and I'm really saddened by what 8th edition has done to my beautiful land speeder storms...But hey! No point living in the past.

Here's a shameless plug on a list I posted some days ago : http://www.bolterand...0/#entry5026906
Basic idea is to use scouts for board control and to grab objectives. The rest should be the hammer and the opponent's priority target, leaving the humble scouts to win the day.

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#15
NiceGuyAdi

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I really like the idea of four shotguns and a Heavy Bolter in a Land Speeder Storm. Run it up to 6” from target and send out 14 S5 shots and the Cerberus Launcher on top. It’s liable to get blown out of the sky very quickly, but that’s a fair bit of Dakka on a small unit.

Edited by NiceGuyAdi, 22 March 2018 - 08:23 PM.

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#16
9x19 Parabellum

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Combi melta on sgt (vs. a heavy bolter) with 4 shotguns means it could advance and shoot. Just a thought.


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#17
varchilde

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Feeling whimsical this evening so thought I'd go with a contra-opening post thought; Scouts aren't a major threat in my list (the killy VV, Aggressors and Devs are); most of their benefits have already been noted, but I like them for dirt cheap ObSec.  Canny opponents will cap the Scouts because they know they will take the objectives.

 

And a further random thought to annoy the min-max players I normally play against; 6 man squads so I can out ObSec their MSU troop choices. Might just do that!


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