Are Verlo Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 In my eyes the current icon of flame is not worth 5 pts. So I am looking for suggestions to improve the flame. If it worked like this: " at the start of the psychic phase roll a d6 for every enemy unit within 12" of the icon. On a 6 that unit suffers a mortal wound", then it would perhaps be worth it. Any thoughts of what elese could be done with or to the icon of flame to make it worth including in matched play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 +1 on manifest rolls? +1 to deny the witch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 2+ instead of 6+ for the MW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 +1 to wounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C@BA Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 How about rerolling 1's to wound when shooting? We already have +1 to wound, in form of VotLW, and we want to keep the Icon cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Re'Koleq't Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I like the 2+ but a 1 hurts one of your nearby units haha! Makes them dangerous to hang around, just like that kid that gets you into trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 It can't be psychic focused as Tzaangors and Chaos Space Marines have it. In its current version, I think they need to make the range 18" and the roll a 5+ to make it worth it. Basically a Brimstone's Smite... Of course, it needs to stay at 5pts, because at 10pts no one would take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The question is ... does it really has to be Mortal wounds? I mean Mortal wounds aren't just boring, it's also not like TSons are lacking means to deal those anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 @Nym I know some CSM units can take it but struggled to find a purpose that other bonuses can’t provide while staying psychic focused. I like +1 to wound rolls too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The question is ... does it really has to be Mortal wounds? I mean Mortal wounds aren't just boring, it's also not like TSons are lacking means to deal those anyway.Most sources of mortal wounds for Thousand Sons are smite based. Getting smite off is hard enough, and if the beta rule becomes official it gets even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The question is ... does it really has to be Mortal wounds? I mean Mortal wounds aren't just boring, it's also not like TSons are lacking means to deal those anyway.Most sources of mortal wounds for Thousand Sons are smite based. Getting smite off is hard enough, and if the beta rule becomes official it gets even worse. Yeah I know. Also one of the armies with the most access to smite. Whether the beta rule includes mini-smites remains to be seen but I wouldn't be surprised if those would get ruled seperately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 +1 to invuln after a price hike. Let SOTs take 'em. I have 3 SOTs (for 3 units of 5) rocking an icon for aesthetics. I know we have a spell that does that but this perhaps a bit more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The question is ... does it really has to be Mortal wounds? I mean Mortal wounds aren't just boring, it's also not like TSons are lacking means to deal those anyway. Yeah, MW are not fun. I was just thinking of how they could make it worth taking without changing it too much. I like +1 to wound too, but let's be realistic guys, it would need to cost at least 20 or 30pts with this kind of bonus. If I were to change it completely, I would do that : 5pts : "If a unit includes at least 1 Icon of Flame, any roll of 6+ to wound causes 1 additionnal damage." OR 15pts : "If a unit includes at least 1 Icon of Flame, any roll of 6+ to hit causes 2 hits instead of 1." I think I like the second option better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I think we're not going to see any changes in the big FAQ but will see a slew of adjustments during Chapter Approved. Mini-Smite will probably receive it's own actual name to exempt it from the Smite rules, maybe some form of formation rules to compensate for our high costs similar to Drukhari Patrols, and undoubtedly some adjustments to point values or rules changes for Terminators/PA. These type of changes would also help support Grey Knight monofaction players so I could see this rolling out at some point. If I was to wish list I'd say give us our Prospero Cult rules with Combat Drug or Obssessin/Cult mechanics like Drukhari that apply to Rubrics and/or HQ's. Hopefully we'll see some good balancing in 6 months. We can see that TS and GK are the gimmicky Codexes of their factions that don't quite fit the mold of the other Codex supplements. I'm hoping Death Watch comes out good and doesn't suffer from the specialist faction curse. GW just seems to have a hell of a time making rules to suit these factions that balance well across the game. GK and TS have a few good units and Strategems that you have to build around, but most of the Codex that have been released are very reasonable in terms of value. I'm not saying GK and TS are unplayable, but they're definitely not as well designed as any other Codex that I can think of off the top of my head. There are some single unit outliers that skew the meta as a result of Stratagems or value but overall GW has been exceptional with their books this edition. I hope they continue this trend, and evaluate their specialist factions (GK, TS, DW potentially if the trend continues, Assassins/Ministorum) to ensure they are flavorful and detailed enough to be competitive as something other than general supporting detatchments. Edit: +1 to Wound for all TS units within 6"? I'd love that. Could always use a Legion trait that works on the rest of our army so we aren't just a +6" Psychic Power HQ support army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yncarne Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Going off Nym’s latest, perhaps wound rolls of “6” are mortal or double save mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I do have to agree that a MW mechanic is a bit boring. Maybe only lose one model to morale for that unit while Icon is in play? Again might need to hike the price. I don't mind paying more if the benefit is greater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Is morale really an issue for the Marine units tho? They have rather high LD, small unit size and a re-roll for morale tests anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 The DnD nerd in me treats morale like a dump stat most of the time. It's nearly irrelevant on units with high leadership. MSU is optimal most of the time for the majority of chaos non-chaff or you've high enough durability to mitigate losses to a manageable amount per round. It is relatively moot on units with low leadership as you're expecting to shred them off as fodder generally as a road block so we just see people taking max squads with this expectation. If leadership was more important you'd see Abe, and his extra CP's, around or see people crying about the fearless Astartes falling to leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 It would be nice to have some morale mitigation on large squads of tzaangors though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Is morale really an issue for the Marine units tho? They have rather high LD, small unit size and a re-roll for morale tests anyway. Don't know, I only got 3 8th ed games under my belt. Seems I have heard people concerned about losing marines in big squads but ymmv.. Our Rubric marines get a reroll to morale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 They don't as they do not have ATSKNF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Our Rubric marines get a reroll to morale? My bad, I forgot that the Chaos Legions get DttFE instead of ATSKNF. Anyway, with LD8 you need to lose at least 3 models before you can lose an additional model on a 6. So before it becomes REALLY relevant, a 5 man unit is already gone anyway. MSU is still the way to go unless you have a really good reason not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodd1888 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I get having morale mitigation is useful, especially on Tzaangors, but I feel like that's almost fuel for the fire, pun intended. Rubrics provide a buff that, more often than not, will be taken to use on Goats? Morale is barely impactful on Rubric squads as is due to their durability. The buff that Rubrics need most, IMO, is something to boost their offence. Cause an additional wound on a 6+ to hit or a MW, something that boosts the potential of all TS in an aura as they guard those around them, something. Give us something to help us be unique, but consistent. DG are the resilient, Noise Marines are the shooty assault, and Khorne is assault. Rubrics are the Psykers. Mini-smite and powers aren't as potent as the sheer numbers that the other legion troops provide without variability or risk of failure. Our Invuln and Inferno Bolter generally don't provide the same value as the options provided to other legion troops. No other unit is as expensive, volatile, or potentially suicidal as any unit in the game. Just my 2 cents. Sorry, forgot Grey Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Overall I prefer better offence for Icon like some of the wound mechanics mentioned above though was just spit balling ideas, in my 3 games my Rubes did fine on morale. To keep the cost low I like a reroll on 1s on wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Age of Sigmar rules would work, or increase something in relation to both Tzaangors or Rubrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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