Salamanders Legion Structure

[Hellrender]

As i am trying to create my own background for my portion of the XVIIIth legion, i'm trying to understand how the legion was structured post Vulkan.

 

What i seem to find is that the Legion is structured in 7 parts, each representing one of the 7 realms on Nocturne. Each Realm is then divided into company sized parts, led by a captain.

 

So as i understand it, is that a Chapter or Great Company in other legions, is equal to a Realm with the Salamanders. But then i get confused by the Pyre Guard. These were the Honour Guard of Vulkan, and according to the Wiki, they numbered 7 at all times, and each commanded a chapter of the Legion.

 

But... According to the same Wiki (and black book), the leader of a Realm was called Lord Protector. The Lord Protector title is never brought in relation to the pyre guard. Leading me to belief that the Pyre Guard are not the Lord Protectors, and that the Realms are not equal to the chapters in other legions.

 

Which leaves the question, how are the Salamanders structured?

 

In summary:

 

7 Realms: each Commanded by a Lord Protector

? Chapters: each Commanded by a member of the Pyre Guard

 

Each Realm is then divided into Companies, with each company commanded by a Captain.

 

Thus:

 

Realm =? Chapter > Company > Squad

Pyre Guard > Lord Protector > Captain > Lieutenants = Firedrakes > Master Sergeants > Sergeants

 

 

 

 

[Supe robot gangster #1]

The way I read it from the black book is that the lord protector was literally the leader of a realm, and not affiliated with legion command in any meaningful way. Basically in charge of civilian aspects of the realm and the way the realm works with the legion (recruiting etc.), it’s the only way I could make sense of how it was written, without each of the 7 realm companies/chapters/whatever having multiple commanders.

[Hellrender]

That makes some sense. But then the command of a whole Chapter of marines, was left to a Honour Guard? Now i know that the each Pyre Guard was an exceptional marine, but they are still bodyguards, supposed to give their life for Vulkan, on top of the fact that they are selected for their beyond average fire and fury! I just find it hard to understand that the whole legion was basicly commanded by 7 hot heads. 

 

And then there is the fact the the leader of the Pyre Guard was First captain of the Salamanders elite company, the Firedrakes (from wiki), and not commander of a chapter. So now i am doubly confused :(

[Sandlemad]

That makes some sense. But then the command of a whole Chapter of marines, was left to a Honour Guard? Now i know that the each Pyre Guard was an exceptional marine, but they are still bodyguards, supposed to give their life for Vulkan, on top of the fact that they are selected for their beyond average fire and fury! I just find it hard to understand that the whole legion was basicly commanded by 7 hot heads. 

 

And then there is the fact the the leader of the Pyre Guard was First captain of the Salamanders elite company, the Firedrakes (from wiki), and not commander of a chapter. So now i am doubly confused

 

Yeah it's kind of a mess... Massacre says that the Firedrakes were not an individual chapter or company but that each realm had their own Firedrakes for instructive and example purposes so that's a flat-out contradiction. There are probably ways to rationalise it away but I think a lot of the Salamanders pre-heresy organisation is going to run into this issue of authors/editors/Kyme and others not sharing a vision and racking up inconsistencies.

 

I agree with super robot gangster's reading that the Protectors were in command of the literal geographical/civilian realms of Nocturne rather than the legion 'realm' organisational unit. The two are closely linked in culture and recruitment but the Protectors are not out on crusade or in direct command. They're like mini-Tetrarchs of Ultramar.

This doesn't itself clash with the role of the Pyre Guard but yeah, it's sort of bizarre that of the two senior ranks/most important offices we hear in the Salamanders, one is closely associated with civilian administration and other is closely associated with being a personal bodyguard. Doesn't really leave much time for actual operational command, does it. Even the Blood Angels books made a pretty clear distinction between the roles of Azkaellon and Raldoron, or Grimnir Blackblood and Gunnar Gunnhilt, or Drakus Gorod and Marius Gage.

 

It feels like it would make more sense if the Pyre Guard was a sort of ceremonial role, you know, accompanying Vulkan in the rituals of the Promethean cult or in diplomatic events. Or advising him like the Mournival. But unfortunately Promethean Sun and Vulkan Lives both show them acting as a literal bodyguard squad on the field instead of issuing commands or leading their men. As you say, part of the origin of the Pyre Guard is specifically that they're seven ferocious Terran veterans who don't quite 'get' their own Nocturnean brothers so it's not like they appear particularly suited for high command.

 

I'm not sure there's an answer that ties it all together and sounds sensible, to be honest.

[Hellrender]

Hmm... I guess i will have to create my own interpretation. I definetly do not like how the pyre guard are presented in Kymes books, so i think i will make them closer to the mournival but without any high command functions.

 

That way i can ignore the mentioned chapters and have something along the lines of this:

 

The legion is divided in realms, led by a lord commander.

 

Each realm is made up of several battle companies, each made up of roughly 120 marines, commanded by a captain.

 

The pyre guard function as Vulkans bodyguard and advisors but have been known to lead company sized detachments. They do not hold any high command positions.

 

Is the name for the command ranks for each legion realm known? Or will Lord Commander suffice?

[Sandlemad]

Sounds good. I don't think anything has been mentioned above Captain post-Vulkan but Massacre says they broadly stuck to the old Principia Bellicosa terms so Lord Commander should work. I think Cassian Vaughan went by Lord Commander before Vulkan's arrival, when he was master of the XVIIIth, and if Amadeus DuCaine could keep his title after Ferrus took charge of the Xth, the same could apply for the Salamanders. Barring primarchs, it's still the top rank, just spread among a few individuals.

[SickSix]

Could you just say that the Pyre Guard were commanders of chapters before being selected? Wouldn't that fix it?

[Lord_Caerolion]

Salamanders organisation has always been terribly-written. Just look at their organisation in 40k, in which they tell us that there are 7 Companies. All good so far. Then they tell that each Company is directly tied to a City-State and each draws their recruits directly from that, being almost independent from each other. Ok, still good so far, nice to see a "Codex" Chapter with divergent organization that doesn't throw away everything else like the Space Wolves do. Then, in the same book, they tell us that the 1st Company is the Veteran Company and is based on their moon, and that the 7th Company is the Scout Company, and contains only the Scouts and recruits from all the City-States. So, now we've got 7 Companies, each drawing directly from one of the 7 City-States, except that two Companies are absolutely not related to a City-State at all. They present literally incompatible information within the same book.