PeteySödes Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Only DS into your own DZ???? That is massive! I need to get a link to that ... https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_The_Big_FAQ_1_2018_en.pdf That bit is beta ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Delete...someone else already posted links I'm in an ITC environment we adopt beta rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Ok? It's still beta... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Ok? It's still beta... Yes and i need to remember that nuance. For my play it is the same as the other new rules and implemented Not everyone will have that though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakendoomcool Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 That is a big change if it goes through fully. @ hear da lamentation That should help keep those devilgaunts at arms reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Ok so BJORN 3 x ( GH pg,pp, Razorback TLAC ) 2 x LF 4LC 2 x 5 vanilla scouts Is a scary 1310 points. Only 190 left! Do I look at what I can get for 190 ... or drop a razorback and have more “boots”? I’m conscious this army is likely to be castled against the Nids. I have nothing threatening his deployment options and if he hides his back field I’ll have nothing to do but wait for his deepstrike (which may be turn 2) and weather his hive guard who don’t need LOS. What’s your thoughts? HDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Damn! Just read the beta comments... HDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Why are there vanilla scouts in there though? I mean, I know WHY you want to use them, but are you allowed to take them in a Space Wolf detachment? Or is this an Imperium soup detachment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 You can take them like that until we get a chapter tactic, longer even if you don’t want it. Still legal in th post FAQ landscape since it shares Adeptus astartes keyword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 I think cyberwolves are actually better. Scouts are 11points, cyberwolves 15 with 2W. But I can’t afford the cyberwolves really as this is just purely a speed bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Vanilla scouts can be deployed mid field That is what makes them special *edit to clarify Remember the 9 inch bubble in each direction. The scouts bubble combined with your DZ means 9 + 9 + 9 (yes 27" deployment buffer at the widest point). Without scouts you have a 9" bubble. Easy rapid fire and charge range for other armies Cyberwolves are just anti ds and smite chaff. You can use any unit for that but CW are cheap and efficient The beta ds rules change all of that analysis though If the opponent cant drop his alpha strike units turn 1 you dont need vanilla scouts (they still stop raven guard etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 Thanks Tigurius, it’s a very good point. My friend won’t play beta rules so I’ve got the alpha strike to deal with for a while. Scouts are good for this. I’m struggling with this list though. What I’ve got doesn’t seem much for the points somehow ... which normally forebodes it being a poor army choice... HDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper_Hawser Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 You can take them like that until we get a chapter tactic, longer even if you don’t want it. Still legal in th post FAQ landscape since it shares Adeptus astartes keyword. A bit off topic but I may as well ask this to understand since for me, I've never had to think like this using only space wolf for my armies. Regarding the Keywords, does this mean we can actually make a detachment made of ANYTHING with the same keyword? Like I could make a battalion with Calgar, Mephiston, grey hunters and ravenwing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Yes with an asterix. In the most extreme example of say a SW army led by calgar, calgar would not have access to his tactic or relics though because the whole army detachment needs to share that most specific keyword. Currently, SW are the only ones that don’t have a chapter tactic, and our stratagems and relic do not require that specificity. The only reason it comes up for me is when I sub out our currently terrible wolf scouts for vanilla ones or if I feel spicey and want to take stuff like stormhawks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Th easiest way to get allies is a separate detachmentI have been using a vanilla librarian (null zone omg) vanilla scouts and assassinsI put them in a separate patrol or vanguard depending on how many assassins i need.They share keyword imperium and i don't care about chapter tactics or stratagems for them.The new battle brother rules (*BETA so may not apply to you) change this by denying imperium as a shared word.I now run assassins as their separate special vanguard with no hq and no CP benefitThe vanilla librarian can be tossed in my cheap outrider detachment with cyber wolves and they share adeptus astartes as keyword.Everyone else goes in a large SW battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Jbickb Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Where are those new assassin detachment rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Where are those new assassin detachment rules? https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_The_Big_FAQ_1_2018_en.pdf New FAQ for everything 40k related They also updated the BRB and all existing codex available Tons of stuff just changed The battlebrother detachment thing is a BETA rule (like smite and character rules were previously beta but just became official) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 OK, so I've gone away and thought about it ..... Against the Nids With the Nids' ability to fall back and still shoot etc. I don't think assault is going to work. I need to concentrate on shooting and I need more bodies. So I've come up with this. . . I'm not sure about it at all to be honest, I don't inherently trust our Grey Hunters in this edition, with all the -ap weapons and mortal wounds. BJORN (tlac hf) Runepriest 5 Grey Hunters pistol, plasma gun 5 Grey Hunters. pistol, plasma gun 5 Grey Hunters, pistol, plasma gun Razorback twin assault cannons Razorback twin assault cannons Razorback twin assault cannons 5 SM scouts 5 SM scouts 5 Longfangs 4 lascannons 5 Longfangs 4 lascannons Blizzdread Idea is to speed bump with the scouts as far forward as possible, put Long Fangs in cover if possible. Then do I castle and wait for him with Runepriest cover bonus, or do I rumble the mech forward? I'm thinking just castling up, surviving his death-star-deep-strike with as much shooting from me as possible and then rumble forwards. I'd appreciate views (of any sort) on this ... HDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Long fangs need to be in a building with fire ports, IMO. While it can be a bit pricey, a bunker or Bastion will keep them safe from practically everything short of extreme heavy fire power. It also indirectly increases their line of sight, especially with the Bastion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 Thanks Gherrick. I’ve checked out the fortifications. They are good but I am already so tight on points I’m not sure I can afford 120+ to keep one unit of longfangs safe. Especially as they can’t move ... The thing which gets me about the list above is that it’s so like a 5th edition list .... Once I’ve had 3 troops with the razors, Bjorn and the longfangs there isn’t many points left to get creative. Is this balanced (to those on this thread that felt my initial list was so unbalanced)? If not ... can you suggest what is a balanced list? HDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 I'd swap one unit of scouts for 2-3 cyberwolves. They make excellent anti-deepstrike bubbles, and that will free up some points for perhaps some upgrades on your other units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 I'd swap one unit of scouts for 2-3 cyberwolves. They make excellent anti-deepstrike bubbles, and that will free up some points for perhaps some upgrades on your other units. He put the scouts in for superior deep strike protection over the wolves. A nid dropped in his face and rapid fired him to death I love cyberwolves and will tell everyone to take 3 but they can't push the bubble outside your DZ. Vanilla scouts give you a massive safe zone *Beta rules change all this....I no longer have scouts due to deep strike rule changes I like that list HDL Note thet Bjorn does NOT have a TLAC...just a plain AC However your list has a ton of dakka (7 assault cannons for 42 shots rerolling with Bjorn) That should help clear his chaff If you keep the GH in the transport they will do their job just fine They are your chaff with bite They keep the enemy off Bjorn and provide targets If you want to change things around you can drop the 2nd LF unit or downgrade it and put upgrades on your other squads. The real question at this point is what tools do you need? What do you need your list to do...what does it NOT do right now as presented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Thanks TiguriusX. Gutted I didn’t spot the TLAC ... that will have quite an effect and I’ve used the TLAC the last 3 times (I did pay for it ...) What am I missing? I don’t have much to threaten his backfield if he sits back and waits for his deepstrike turn 2 instead of 1. If I put the scouts out far upfield 18” away from my back field he could delay his deepstrike and let his backfield shoot the scouts. He only had to wipe one unit out to get his 9” deepstrike in against my main force. Ok .. I get a round of action (and hopefully my RP will pull of stormcaller) but if he hides his backfield I’m not sure how many shots the LF will get. (Remember his hive guard don’t need LoS) HDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gherrick Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Here's a list to consider...it comes in at 1499, but may include models you don't have (i.e. primaris aggressors): ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [83 PL, 1499pts] ++ + HQ +Bjorn the Fell-handed [14 PL, 267pts]: 2. Inspiring Leader, Heavy flamer, Trueclaw, Twin lascannon, WarlordIron Priest on Bike [6 PL, 100pts]: Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Servo-arm, Thunder hammer. . Bike: Twin boltgun+ Troops +Grey Hunters [8 PL, 108pts]: 4x Chainsword. . Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Power axe. . 3x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades. . Grey Hunter with Special Weapon: Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Plasma gun. . Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter, Wolf clawGrey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]. . Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades. . 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenadesGrey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]. . Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades. . 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades+ Elites +Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 222pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant. . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade LauncherWulfen [13 PL, 231pts]. . 2x Great frost axe. . 2x Thunder hammer & Stormshield: 2x Storm Shield, 2x Thunder Hammer. . 4x Wulfen. . Wulfen Pack Leader: Frost claws+ Heavy Support +Long Fangs [8 PL, 209pts]. . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon. . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon. . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon. . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon. . Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon. . Long Fang Pack Leader: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades. . . . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun+ Dedicated Transport +Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannonRazorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon 8e is not the edition where a defensive player can win. You need many real threats in the opponent's face ASAP... In the list I included, I'd outflank the wulfen, the better armed GHs, and the aggressors (combat squading them during deployment). Those aggressors are pretty big threats, and having them in outflank means the opponent can get quite the surprise if they try to overwhelm you with an early charge. An 18" range with 6+d6 per model shots (even at S4 AP0) means they will leave a dent in damn near everything. If the opponent doesn't immediately try to wipe them off the board (they'd be a fool not to try), the shots double the next turn if you don't move them. Aggressors aren't that bad in melee either, although I'm not a huge fan of power gauntlets. T5 also means they can shrug off a lot of small arms fire (and even heavier/plasma weapons will wound on 3+ instead of 2+, which can really make a difference). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Thanks TiguriusX. Gutted I didn’t spot the TLAC ... that will have quite an effect and I’ve used the TLAC the last 3 times (I did pay for it ...) What am I missing? I don’t have much to threaten his backfield if he sits back and waits for his deepstrike turn 2 instead of 1. If I put the scouts out far upfield 18” away from my back field he could delay his deepstrike and let his backfield shoot the scouts. He only had to wipe one unit out to get his 9” deepstrike in against my main force. Ok .. I get a round of action (and hopefully my RP will pull of stormcaller) but if he hides his backfield I’m not sure how many shots the LF will get. (Remember his hive guard don’t need LoS) HDL If your priority is a backfield threat I suggest using our stratagem to outflank infantry (cheaper than buying wolf guard with jump) I really like sending LF acting like GH (no heavy weapons...just a combi plasma/melta on the WGPL and the PL). They get reroll 1s and make it very effective to overcharge on arrival. You need the points for it though... Delete your extra group of LF-LCs for 170 pts Spend 25 of it to upgrade Bjorn to TLLC (that way you still have 7 lascannons in your army if needed) Now gear a new LF pack up for backfield duty You need a WGPL to make this work. If you want to go all in you can even put him in terminator armor with a heavy weapon Then buy whatever you think you need Melta and combi-melta for tank hunting (works just fine on characters and regular infantry too) Plasma for general purpose (I think this is best for LFs and innate rerolls) You can use your left over points to give the regular LFs all heavy bolters or upgrade your other packs (wgpl and storm shields/combi weapons etc) You lose some long range fire but gain an effective backfield unit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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