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2.5k and 3k Emperors Children - Maru Skara

EC Emperors Children Maru Skara Eidolon Fulgrim

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#1
MorgothNL

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Hi everyone!

 

I have finally come to the end of the tunnel regarding my Emperor's Children. It has taken 5 years, and frustrated me into getting 4 entire other armies in between, to finish but I have only 1 model left to paint. I have gone over and changed the list more times than I can count but I think this final version will be a legal, fun but strong list.

Please have a look, make sure I didn't make any mistakes (I have missed things in the passed causing me to run an illegal list) and please give your input on this final version.

Feel free to make small suggestions, but don't start rebuilding the whole list ;).

 

2500 Pts Maru Skara

 

HQ

- Legion Champion (Tartaros, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker)

- Eidolon

 

- 4x Command Squad (Tartaros, 4x Chainfist)

 

ELITES

- Apothecary (Artificer Armour, Power Sword)

- Contemptor Mortis (Kheres)

- 6x Phoenix Guard (Grenade Harness, Sonic Shriekers)

 

TROOPS

- 10x Tactical Squad (Extra Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino (Dozer Blade)

- 10x Tactical Squad (Extra Close Combat Weapons, Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino (Dozer Blade)

 

FAST ATTACK

- Primaris Lightning (Ground Tracking Auguries, Battle Servitor Control, 2x2 Kraken Penetrator Missiles)

- Storm Eagle (2xTL lascannons, Extra Armour, TL Heavy Bolter)

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Land Raider Phobos (Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Frag Assault Launchers, Extra Armour)

- Sicaran Battle Tank (Lascannon Sponsons, Dozer Blade)

 

So that is the 2.5k Version. Eidolon will most likely go with the apothecary and the 6 Phoenix Guard in the Storm Eagle. The Champion will join the command squad in the landraider (this way both squads have anti-armour capability and the apothecary will be in the larger squad so will have a better chance of saving guys). 

With Maru Skara I will outflank the Lightning, Storm Eagle and Contemptor T2

 

The 3k version has everything the 2.5k list has with additionally:

- Fulgrim (Fireblade)

- 1x2 Kraken Missiles on the Lightning extra

- 1x Phoenix Guard extra in the current squad

- Armoured Ceramite on the Sicaran and Storm Eagle (the last is a bit meh, but didn't really have any other thing to do with the pts)

 

Fulgrim will join in the Eagle obviously

 

 

So, there it is, please let me know what you think. I have played similar lists for over 10 games, but the landraider for example is a new addition (and the model that still needs paint). Before the landraider I transported the Command Squad in an Anvillus and added another Contemptor Mortis with the leftover pts. However, that list was too flyer heavy to my taste, and played the same every time. I hope the Landraider will be more fun, add some needed lascannons and still do well as a delivery system.

 



#2
Hesh Kadesh

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I'm going to comment on the 2.5K list only.

 

Biggest issues; Apothecary cannot join Terminator equipped Squads, and Eidolon loses a lot of oomph without being able to get in combat ASAP; which usually involves a Dreadclaw dropping in first turn. Coming in Turn 2 with a Storm Eagle means that you don't get to do your thing until Turn 3; and given that you're outflanking, rather than Deep Striking, leaves you out of a lot of abilities.

 

The Champion and Command Squad are okay in the Phobos, but be prepared to lose it first turn, thanks to armies having had like 5 years to get use to Spartan Rush, leaving your Tartaros Footslogging it without a range weapon. The Mortis is okay, but you may find the 24" range limiting. The Deredeo is undeniably better at AA, but 180pts is definitely cheaper than the 220 it takes for a Deredeo+Aiolos (Aiolos being too good to not take). You might want to try running a Count-As.

 

Sicaran and Lightning-P is excellent, no complaints. I don't think there's a need to Outflank the Lightning, as it can Deep Strike. 

 

The Tac Squads have a lot of points put into mixing melee and range, but they don't do very well in either.

 

My experiences with playing against Maru Skara has been to use the turns at which you have to capitalize on removing the prime threats. Turn 1; you have only 1 threat unit - the Phobos carrying the Phoenix Terms. Most armies are prepared to take a Lord of War like a Typhon, or a Spartan; a Phobos is much lighter threat, so expect that to go first turn. This leaves your Terminator Squads isolated and able to be picked off, as you'll have 2 relatively slow walking units left on the outliers, who lack ranged threat.

 

Getting as much threat right up in the opponents grill is the most important thing in Maru Skara; hence using Dreadclaw/Kharybdis units, Assault Squads, and Outriders to have to divide firepower and let your boys do your business. Alternatively, just have a 3x3 Dreadnoughts flank and have fun that way. What you've got is okay, and just needs a little bit of work.


Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#3
MorgothNL

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unsure.png  *Bubble Burst*

 

Thanks for the comments. I totally missed the Apothecary - Terminator issue. I haven't actually played the terminator command squad yet, I normally ran the artificer armour command squad (and now I know why). Yet.. I have painted the terminators, and the look too cool not to use so I will change the apothecary to a primus medicae to fix that particular issue. He can then also take a melta bomb, which could be quite sweet in that squad.

 

In which case I am kind of back to my old plan. I already have the Anvillus model so it's not that bad (Just don't want to paint it tongue.png and it sucks to transport).

 

So taking back some of the old list, keeping the terminators and switching the apothecary I get this:

 

HQ

- Legion Champion (Tartaros, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker)

- Eidolon

- Primus Medicae (Artificer Armour, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs, Refrator Field)

 

- 4x Command Squad (Tartaros, 4x Chainfist)

 

ELITES

- Contemptor Mortis (Kheres)

- Contemptor Mortis (Kheres)

- 5x Phoenix Guard (Grenade Harness, Sonic Shriekers)

 

TROOPS

- 10x Tactical Squad (Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino

- 10x Tactical Squad (Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino

 

FAST ATTACK

- Primaris Lightning (Ground Tracking Auguries, Battle Servitor Control, 2x2 Kraken Penetrator Missiles)

- Storm Eagle (2xTL lascannons, TL Heavy Bolter)

- Dreadclaw

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Sicaran Battle Tank (Lascannon Sponsons)

 

So I also added another Contemptor Mortis and dropped a lot of extras (dozer blades, extra cc weapons, extra armour)

The plan here would then be to put Eidolon with the Medicae and the Terminator Command Squad in the Dreadclaw to arrive T1 and hopefully Jink for survival. The Champion goes with the Phoenix Guard in the Storm Eagle and use Maru Skara along with 1 contemptor and the Lightning to come in T2. This leaves one mortis footslogging but with 1 good turn of running + the 2" he get extra T1 he should join the shooting game T2. 

I always regretted buying the Storm Eagle because it's occupants only start joining T3 and it normally gets shot down the turn in arrives. However I have to model fully painted so it stays. In this list it may not be too much of an issue for the Champion and Phoenix Guard have to anti-armour capabilities and don't want to face a squad the can not kill in one turn (due to the spear sucking after the first round) so they might actually have a place fighting targets of opportunity in T3.

 

EDIT: If anyone has a good suggestion to change the extra contemptor for, please mention it for maybe I can still contact FW in the morning to cancel the landraider order and change it for something else. Although with good positioning they could work? If the 2x contempor is fine than that is also ok for I can always change the order to something I need for one of my other armies.


Edited by MorgothNL, 09 April 2018 - 10:08 PM.


#4
Fangbanger

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I second hesh regarding the contemptor... I'd ditch them for a deredeo as will be more useful

Also, a medic for a small squad to me is not worth it... especially as most things ap2 against them in combat will just double them out anyway.

Storm eagle will be fun I'm sure, just not amazing for combat again as Hesh has touched upon - pods is key

With this in mind, and depending on how much you wanted to change I'd go for 2x anvilus and a kharybdis so you could have several combat threats dropping in (Eidolon with the phoenix and potentially a Chaplin, 2x terminator squads in the others or 1x termies, 1x tac squad for late game obvjectives)

Admitedly though this doesn't then give you as much point in using Maru skara
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#5
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I had better point out that you cannot take a Terminator Command Squad without a Primarch or Terminator Praetor/Delegatus. So your 3k list is legal, but the 2.5k one isn’t.

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#6
MorgothNL

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Thank you for your input. You make a good point regarding the Medicae. As a apothecary us 1.5 saves would have made his points back, but with the switch to medicae in this small squad, he might as well be a combat consul or not be there at all. These are the kind of comments I am looking for. Adding another Dreadclaw and a Kharybdis would be an enitire different list that would cost loads more and take another year to finish (plus leaving painted models on the shelve), that is not the road I am looking for. Plus, the 30k games I know are not like 40k in competitiveness and if so, I'll have fun with my list and put up my best effort smile.png. This does not mean I should not tweak the things mentioned by you guys smile.png.

 

I could drop the Medic completely, drop 1 contemptor and add the Deredeo with Aiolos ans autocannons. It would even leave me with points to spare to up the Phoenix guard to 7 (boosting their output and giving them a better chance vs larger squads) and still have 20pts left for random upgrades.

So that would be: 

HQ

- Legion Champion (Tartaros, Phoenix Spear, Sonic Shrieker)

- Eidolon

- Delegatus (Tartaros)*

 

- 4x Command Squad (Tartaros, 4x Chainfist)

 

ELITES

- Contemptor Mortis (Kheres)

- 5x Phoenix Guard (Grenade Harness, Sonic Shriekers)*

 

TROOPS

- 10x Tactical Squad (Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino

- 10x Tactical Squad (Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino

 

FAST ATTACK

- Primaris Lightning (Ground Tracking Auguries, Battle Servitor Control, 2x2 Kraken Penetrator Missiles)

- Storm Eagle (2xTL lascannons, TL Heavy Bolter)

- Dreadclaw

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Sicaran Battle Tank (Lascannon Sponsons)

- Deredeo (Autocannons, Aiolos)

 

2500pts

 

EDIT:

I had better point out that you cannot take a Terminator Command Squad without a Primarch or Terminator Praetor/Delegatus. So your 3k list is legal, but the 2.5k one isn’t.

Oh jeez unsure.png .. I'm going to cry myself to sleep now.

How would Eidolon and a delagatus work? (since they both have to be warlord)

* I could drop the 2 extra Phoenix guard again back to 5, and add the Delagatus in Terminator armour to the Phoenix guard squad (edited into the list above)


Edited by MorgothNL, 09 April 2018 - 11:04 PM.


#7
MorgothNL

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Right, so the FAQ clears up that I can't take Eidolon and a Delegatus. Hmm.. need to change quite a bit now.

 

Conclusion is that I can't take Eidolon and the Terminator Command squad in my 2.5k list. It would require a Praetor and I just can't find those points. I will have to take the Terminators out in 2.5k and add the in at 3k.

 

This is where I am at now:

 

HQ

- Legion Champion (Artificer, Phoenix Spear, Boarding Shield, Sonic Shrieker, Melta Bombs)

- Eidolon

 

ELITES

- Contemptor Mortis (Kheres)

- 6x Phoenix Guard (Grenade Harness, Sonic Shriekers)

- 7x Veteran Squad (Weaponmasters, Artificer Armour Serg., Thunder Hammer Serg., 6x Power Weapon, Vexilla)

 

TROOPS

- 10x Tactical Squad (Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino

- 10x Tactical Squad (Melta Bomb Serg., Phoenix Spear Serg., Artificer Armour Serg., Vexilla)

  Rino

 

FAST ATTACK

- Primaris Lightning (Ground Tracking Auguries, Battle Servitor Control, 2x2 Kraken Penetrator Missiles)

- Storm Eagle (2xTL lascannons, TL Heavy Bolter)

- Dreadclaw

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

- Sicaran Battle Tank (Lascannon Sponsons)

- Deredeo (Autocannons, Aiolos)

 

2499pts

 

This has Eidolon + Champion + 7 Veterans in the Dreadclaw and the 6 Phoenix Guard in the Storm Eagle. Normally I always have an HQ joining the Phoenix Guard in the Eagle and feel forced to hover (lost too many pts too often by crash and burn). But with just Phoenix Guard in there, I think I'll make it come in zooming to increase it's durability.

 

Hopefully this is legal now? With just one small rules question: Can I Maru Skara the Lightning + Contemptor + Eagle (with the Phoenix guard inside)? Or would that count as 4 choices?


Edited by MorgothNL, 10 April 2018 - 09:27 AM.


#8
Hesh Kadesh

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It's all good man. This is why I love this section, because you can get both summarised tactics advice (saves you trucking through ~70 odd pages in the tactics forum, and try to sift out outdated info from the still relevant) and get list advice too to keep it legal.

 

Unfortunately, you will not be able to take a Legion Command Squad in Terminator Armour in a list with Eidolon. However, as good as Eidolon is, I don't think he provides you much in this list, outside of an At Initiative Thunder Hammer charge. Which is all well and good, but he doesn't solve you anything. You're not really multicharging with your list. 

 

I'm afraid you'll need a Praetor/Delegatus in Terminator Armour. I'd completely forgotten that before-hand.


Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#9
MorgothNL

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What would you say is the better option:
Eidolon + 7 Veterans (melta bombs and power weapons) + champion all in the dreadclaw. And 6 phoenix guard in the Eagle.

Or

Praetor (Tartaros, Paragon, iron halo, Master crafted, digital lasers) + 4 chainfist Tartaros Command squad in the dreadclaw. And 6 phoenix guard in the Eagle and 35 pts to spare.

For me the cool factor between Eidolon and the Terminator is equal. The veterans have the benefit of being scoring but lack AP2 weapons, but then again do benefit from the EC legion rules (so do terminators but no point with fists).
The Praetor and Eidolon are equal in output I think (with Eidolon having the edge for all his attacks are basically instant Death).

#10
Hesh Kadesh

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I much prefer "yourdudes" over "special" characters, especially those who are either ubiquitous (as in Eidolon) or pointless (as in Tarvitz), so I'm always going to encourage a Praetor over that.

 

Eidolon is a pure smasher character, whose traits encourage multicharging, which is something you're going to want to be doing anyway, so technically, you don't lose much by going that way. As good as Eidolon is, he doesn't really benefit the legion at all, and is endemic of "early booking"; the legion is not very synergistic, and when it is, it is overly complicated and doesn't pay off very well if you're able to make it work. Eidolon is excellent at chewing face, but at the same time, so is any other character who has At Initiative AP2; and at least they're not gimped if you don't win a charge (the number of times I've been able to withstand his charge thanks to Stubborn, Fearless or simply just rolling well) and continue a steamroll.

 

Coming up with a story-line, name and character history for yourdudes and you're golden IMHO.


Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#11
Fangbanger

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Can't really add more than Hesh has really...

I do love the Eidolon mini though and will add when I do my EC, but in yours I'd go preator

It is a bit boring just to see another standard paragon blade guy, but there's just no better way to do it


As far as the R.o.w and the choices, jurt is out on if it's 3 or 4. (there's no clear ruling either way)

You go with either, me personally, would go 3 as when the unit embarks, they are not a unit (if that makes sense) and you use only 1 reserve roll so I'd say it's fine

Just check with peeps when you play

(I feel like I discussed this recently with someone online but can't remember...!?!)

Edited by Fangbanger, 10 April 2018 - 01:13 PM.

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#12
Hesh Kadesh

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For reference, a "your dude" can be pretty awesome. We have a Bog Standard Imperial Fist Paragon Blade/Storm Shield combination, but because it's Fafnir Rann, he's modelled him to have 2 Axes. It's not a strictly "your dude", as it's from the wider Heresy setting, but at least the model is unique. If you've not got a yourdude already, might be time to start having a think about it. Especially if it's a Traitor List, and you can have a look at the recent waves of AoS plastics which have placed a load of Alien-looking weapons into the game (can't wait to get me some Deepkin!)


Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#13
Daimhin

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With just one small rules question: Can I Maru Skara the Lightning + Contemptor + Eagle (with the Phoenix guard inside)? Or would that count as 4 choices?

 

 

To me this is two choices. It isn't a dedicated transport, therefore it is not part of the unit. 



#14
Hesh Kadesh

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Two Choices? Lightning (1), Contemptor Talon (1), Storm Eagle (1) = 3.


Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#15
Daimhin

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Two Choices? Lightning (1), Contemptor Talon (1), Storm Eagle (1) = 3.


Sorry, I was unclear.

Phoenix Terminators (1)
Storm Eagle (1)

So that is two of your three slots.

#16
Fangbanger

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I think he meant the PG and the flyer are 2 units

They start the game and enter as 1 though so I disagree 

The Eagle is put into the hidden blade, the PG are put into the Eagle

There is nothing in any rulebook that states how this interaction works with the r.o.w. Rules as written, there is nothing, rules as intended, who knows

... and round and round everyone goes

Honestly dude, just play how your group wants to and check with EO's if you go to any events


Edited by Fangbanger, 10 April 2018 - 07:39 PM.

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#17
Daimhin

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Absolutely agree this isn’t clear from the rules.

I’ve stated how I read it, nothing more.
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#18
MorgothNL

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Thanks everyone for your views and inputs and kudos for keeping it as that 'your view and you opinions'. I will start thinking about at 'my dude' and try both versions of the list out. The 3k list will be able to field all that I want, so in the end it is not so much of an issue for everything will see the table some days.

 

I will check with a few of my local tournament organisers how they would rule the Eagle + Phoenix guard and take that as the base assumption until FW clear it up (if ever).

I will try the Praetor + Terminator list hopefully sometime in the coming days and see what is what and where I want to go with it.


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#19
Fangbanger

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Let us know how you get on dude
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#20
Daimhin

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Not having a vested interest - but there is this thread:  http://www.bolterand...ru-skara-doubt/



#21
Hesh Kadesh

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It is the transport unit which is outflanking. Not the unit. You do not have to provide outflank to both transport and unit. And in that thread thencomment on a Dedicated Spartan taking uo 2 units is just flat out wrong. The Spartan would gain outflank provided the unit was deployed inside the transport.
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Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#22
RoadRunna

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Re: the outflanking MS units it is my understanding that an eligible unit with its dedicated transport will count as 2 units. So this could be a Vet Squad and rhino and say a contemptor making 3 units of the Elite category as the rhino now becomes an elite unit

#23
Fangbanger

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The rhino is never an elite unit. It is a transport that takes up no slot and is actually an upgrade to the unit. You can't even get a rhino on it's own.

With normal reserves, you would roll one dice for the unit and the transport it was in, thus to me, this makes it one unit. If it was 2, you would need to role for the squad and the transport separately

Again though, we are just going to go round in circles as all of this is speculation as there is no clear ruling in any book and won't be an FAQ for some time.

If it where me, I'd always play it that when a unit is in a transport, it's 1 unit. If people want to count it as 2, then that's cool also
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#24
Hesh Kadesh

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Re: the outflanking MS units it is my understanding that an eligible unit with its dedicated transport will count as 2 units. So this could be a Vet Squad and rhino and say a contemptor making 3 units of the Elite category as the rhino now becomes an elite unit


Your understanding is incorrect.

Resources;

Heresy Era Lords of War; use this to find out the complete collection of available Lords of War for Battles in the Age of Darkness.


#25
Caillum

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Probably not the place to discuss rules queries - it’s taking over the thread. OP has already stated he will ask TO about ruling.

Good luck MorgothNL!
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The Battle of Paramar Nexus - Caillum's HH Plog

 

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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: EC, Emperors Children, Maru, Skara, Eidolon, Fulgrim

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