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Dealing with Death Company


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#1
TheAlchemist

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One of my regular opponents plays guard with a few squads of deep striking Death Company, Wich come in and erase two squads a turn. I lose ever time as I have no idea how to counter this. Forward movement scout sentinels haven't worked.

#2
spafe

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how many points, what are you using? what have you got access to? How are you deploying? a few more details would be useful.

 

In general though, those sentinels should be forcing him to land far enough away that he can blitz those down... or maybe a unit or 2 of guardsmen. This should then leave him open to being lit up by the rest of your army, and those D company striking in are a lot of points out of his army!


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#3
TheAlchemist

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What I'm using right now

Cadian brigade
3x company Commanders naked
3x sniper command squads
6x plasma/autocannon infantry
3x autocannon scout sentinels
3x mortar heavy weapon squads

Tempestus Scion battalion
2x commanders
3x plasma Scion squads

Black Templars battalion
1x chaplain
1x Emperor's Champion
2x bolter scouts
2x CC crusader squads
1x Land Raider Crusader

I set my Cadians up in formations of 3x

Commander
Command squad
3x Infantry
Scout sentinel
Heavy weapon squad

Center and both flanks

The scions are in reserve
The Templars scouts mid field
And everything else in the LRC set near the center of deployment.

I have a decent sized Ravenguard collection I want to build a list from to take place of Templars.

#4
WarriorFish

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Death Company are pretty nasty on the charge (and almost as nasty when charged), denying their charges is a good strategy though not the full solution. They can get pricey so make use of your cheaper squads, try and space them out so he can't easily multi-charge or consolidate and have supporting elements nearby ready to deliver justice. They're only marginally more tough than a normal Marine with their 6+++ roll to ignore a wound.

 

From there it's mostly about having the right toys. You can blast them down with lasguns (as they likely won't have better things to do here), but adding the likes of plasma to hit hard is worth while. Don't forget that should the charged squad survive fall it back and pile in with the shooting.

 

You do have a fair few points spent on BTs, but I'm guessing the tries to avoid them? As they'd be a fairly good assault response. If you're on the defensive more would be worth considering dropping the Land Raider - they're expensive.


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#5
TheAlchemist

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Any recommendations for the points of a land Raider?

#6
spafe

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do you have any hellhounds?

 

Or another 30 inf with just flamers to break into another picket line?


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#7
WarriorFish

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You could get a lot for the same price tag, I like spafe's Hellhound idea (but then, who wouldn't? :P ). Bullgryns are a solid counter assault unit, could be a plan for a welcoming party they wouldn't like but it depends on how many fancy weapons like power fists etc they're carrying if this is a good idea (unless you can ensure to wipe them on the charge).

 

Perhaps bolstering what you have is a better idea? A few more infantry squads to make sure they can't reach the important parts of your army, then some more important parts to kill the DC ;) What other Guard units do you have available? Basilisks are good and wouldn't have to worry about the DC trying to avoid them, as there's no hiding from their wrath!


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#8
spafe

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The other thing, is what else is causing threats in the BA army? I can;t imagine it being pure Dcompany


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#9
TheAlchemist

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My opponent is playing a cadian/Scion list like my own with I think a 10 man squad or two 5man squads of death company. Mephistone a chaplain ( possibly a company champion?)

#10
TheAlchemist

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I have a basilisk, a wyvern, 3x heavy quad launchers, a Taurox Prime, more scions, more infantry squads...

#11
Halfpint100

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Use scout sentinels to force him to deeps trike in one corner, which happens to be where your land raider and crusaders are waiting for a good fight.

Also, be flexible with your deployment, if you do the same every time, you are easy to counter and defeat.

#12
our_baz

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As a IG player who has flirted with the BA, placement T1 is key. Don't allow T1 backfield deep strikes, make them drop in front of your gun lines. Then allow them a sacrificial squad or two. Don't allow a consolidation, then shoot or counter charge off the board

#13
zero88

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Like others have said this is most likely a spacing issue. He should only be able to charge your scout sentinels (which is fine, that's their purpose) or if you're really spread out maybe a squad or 2 of infantry. After that your next nearest unit should be 4.01" away or more, so he can't consolidate into more squads

#14
tychobi

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On paper you have the tools. Its a matter of putting them to use.

Kill Maim Destroy


#15
Tokugawa

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If you bring tanks,IMO you should bring at least 3-4 of them. A lonley tank is a too easy target for opponent's high-S/multi-D firearms.

#16
Ulrik_Ironfist

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On paper you have the tools. Its a matter of putting them to use.

That's vague and unhelpful. You should have just said, "git gud scrub", and dispensed with the pretense.

 

As for being helpful, it would seem to me that, you might want tanks. I'm seeing a lack of heavy firepower. A couple of Leman Russ Punishers and Leman Russ Battle Tanks might be welcome. Punisher cannons will chew through his DC, since his 5-10 guys will have to take 4-8 armor saves each. That's going to hurt. Furthermore, the Battle Cannons drop SM armor to a 6+, so he'll fail there too. 

 

If you can't afford to purchase more models right now (we can all relate), you might think about how you're deploying. You might think about turtling up your cadians, and making your templars the obvious target for deep strike. Then tie up his DC in combat with your Crusader Squads, and Deep Strike your scions in behind the DC and lay in with hotshots and plasma, using that sweet MT Doctrine to really lay on the hate. 

 

I'd also consider dropping the mortar squads, in favor of the Quad launchers. Here's why: Quad Launchers have 1 more D6 of shots, and one more point in S. Granted they cost ~3x as much points-wise, but they're the same PL, so it's a potential straight swap (I don't know if you play points or PL). That might make turtling easier, and let you hit harder. 

 

I hope that helps.


Edited by Ulrik_Ironfist, 16 April 2018 - 01:07 PM.

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#17
crimsondave

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May not be an option for you, but I'd replace the Marine battalion with an IG battalion.  Some combo of Russes, Hellhounds, Basilisks, Manticores then the rest in infantry.  I would think a couple Plasma Russes supercharging would decimate DC.  If you don't have Plasma Russes, maybe drop in some more plasma Scions with a Prime to supercharge re-rolling 1's.


Edited by crimsondave, 16 April 2018 - 05:10 PM.


#18
Withershadow

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Death Company are pretty nasty on the charge (and almost as nasty when charged), denying their charges is a good strategy though not the full solution. They can get pricey so make use of your cheaper squads, try and space them out so he can't easily multi-charge or consolidate and have supporting elements nearby ready to deliver justice. They're only marginally more tough than a normal Marine with their 6+++ roll to ignore a wound.

Marginally you say? Their saves are invulnerable.



#19
our_baz

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Death Company are pretty nasty on the charge (and almost as nasty when charged), denying their charges is a good strategy though not the full solution. They can get pricey so make use of your cheaper squads, try and space them out so he can't easily multi-charge or consolidate and have supporting elements nearby ready to deliver justice. They're only marginally more tough than a normal Marine with their 6+++ roll to ignore a wound.

Marginally you say? Their saves are invulnerable.

 

True, its a 6+ though, I don't rely on it. Especially with my lousy dice rolling.



#20
Withershadow

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Death Company are pretty nasty on the charge (and almost as nasty when charged), denying their charges is a good strategy though not the full solution. They can get pricey so make use of your cheaper squads, try and space them out so he can't easily multi-charge or consolidate and have supporting elements nearby ready to deliver justice. They're only marginally more tough than a normal Marine with their 6+++ roll to ignore a wound.

Marginally you say? Their saves are invulnerable.

 

True, its a 6+ though, I don't rely on it. Especially with my lousy dice rolling.

 

Ignore me, I'm stupid. We're talking about Death Company, not Legion of the Damned.  I apologize, this kine is strong.


Edited by Withershadow, 17 April 2018 - 04:29 PM.


#21
our_baz

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DC nope, 3+ armour and 6+++ (FNP equivalent)

Edit: sound, saw your edit. They are similar both black armoured marines

Edited by our_baz, 17 April 2018 - 04:31 PM.


#22
noigrim

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I smushed  10 death company with a single squad of mordians, a company cmdr and three mortars the other day


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#23
Stross

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Well guys you don't have any problem if Beta rule will become a true rule. Nothing will charge you and you can position your army, so nothing will reach your tanks 



#24
Ulrik_Ironfist

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Well guys you don't have any problem if Beta rule will become a true rule. Nothing will charge you and you can position your army, so nothing will reach your tanks 

But that only applies in matched play. If they're using open play or Narrative play, those rules don't matter. 


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#25
tychobi

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On paper you have the tools. Its a matter of putting them to use.

That's vague and unhelpful. You should have just said, "git gud scrub", and dispensed with the pretense.

As for being helpful, it would seem to me that, you might want tanks. I'm seeing a lack of heavy firepower. A couple of Leman Russ Punishers and Leman Russ Battle Tanks might be welcome. Punisher cannons will chew through his DC, since his 5-10 guys will have to take 4-8 armor saves each. That's going to hurt. Furthermore, the Battle Cannons drop SM armor to a 6+, so he'll fail there too.

If you can't afford to purchase more models right now (we can all relate), you might think about how you're deploying. You might think about turtling up your cadians, and making your templars the obvious target for deep strike. Then tie up his DC in combat with your Crusader Squads, and Deep Strike your scions in behind the DC and lay in with hotshots and plasma, using that sweet MT Doctrine to really lay on the hate.

I'd also consider dropping the mortar squads, in favor of the Quad launchers. Here's why: Quad Launchers have 1 more D6 of shots, and one more point in S. Granted they cost ~3x as much points-wise, but they're the same PL, so it's a potential straight swap (I don't know if you play points or PL). That might make turtling easier, and let you hit harder.

I hope that helps.

My advice is more helpful than purchase crappy units and pray. He has the tools meaning cheap screening troops. Understanding how and where you put them takes practice.

I have played blood angels for over a decade. His problem is screening tactics not a model deficiency. Your advice is counter productive in the extreme. Spending money on models will not solve his problem especially on punishers. Also do not tie up the death co in cc. Shoot em. With guns of any stripe. They are just marines, a 6+ ignore is negligible. And thanks for letting us all know i can ignore Ironfist posts from now on. Advice like yours can really mess with new players. Quad mortars lol

Kill Maim Destroy





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