33 replies to this topic

[tychobi]

Well guys you don't have any problem if Beta rule will become a true rule. Nothing will charge you and you can position your army, so nothing will reach your tanks

But that only applies in matched play. If they're using open play or Narrative play, those rules don't matter.

Untrue. Even with beta rules there are many ways to pull off a turn one charge. Screens are as important as ever and an integral part of many lists. You will need to figure out screen tactics if you want to beat strong melee armies and compete in a competative meta.

Sacrifice the pawn to save your queen. Warhammer makes it way more complex but the basic premise remains.

[Cap'm Heckus]

Did anyone suggestions Hull/ sponson mount heavy flamers where ever you can take them? They’ll make them think twice at least especially if the tanks are Catachan.

[tychobi]

Did anyone suggestions Hull/ sponson mount heavy flamers where ever you can take them? They’ll make them think twice at least especially if the tanks are Catachan.

99% they will be charging at 9.1" out of deep strike. 8' flamer range means 34 points of useless. Hell hounds can make a dent and will most likely be shot at instead by a savvy blood angel general.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Untrue. Even with beta rules there are many ways to pull off a turn one charge.

Can you give an example? Transports are out, since disembarking has to happen before a transport moves, and if you can't deep strike in T1, what does that leave?

 

 

 

Screens are as important as ever and an integral part of many lists. You will need to figure out screen tactics if you want to beat strong melee armies and compete in a competative meta.

I agree, if you have something worth screening. Also, what about non-competitive metas?

[ImperialSquishiness]

Blood Angels have a stratagem that lets them move twice and still shoot/charge. Death Company with Jetpacks will move 24" and not fail their charge.

[ImperialSquishiness]

Well guys you don't have any problem if Beta rule will become a true rule. Nothing will charge you and you can position your army, so nothing will reach your tanks

But that only applies in matched play. If they're using open play or Narrative play, those rules don't matter.

Untrue. Even with beta rules there are many ways to pull off a turn one charge. Screens are as important as ever and an integral part of many lists. You will need to figure out screen tactics if you want to beat strong melee armies and compete in a competative meta.

Sacrifice the pawn to save your queen. Warhammer makes it way more complex but the basic premise remains.

Ratlings and sentinels are still important as a screen/speedbump.

They provided a primary screen under the current DS rules. With the beta, they almost create a redundant screen that must be removed first. If you ditch them now for something else, you only have the one screen of infantry. If your opponent wants to drop in, fine but to get any use out of his deep strikers, he has to take care of those first. Otherwise, the only viable targets will be guardsmen in your secondary screen.

[tychobi]

Untrue. Even with beta rules there are many ways to pull off a turn one charge.

Can you give an example? Transports are out, since disembarking has to happen before a transport moves, and if you can't deep strike in T1, what does that leave?

Screens are as important as ever and an integral part of many lists. You will need to figure out screen tactics if you want to beat strong melee armies and compete in a competative meta.

I agree, if you have something worth screening. Also, what about non-competitive metas?

Wings of fire into 3d6 charge, forlorn fury, forward deployed scouts, Mephiston getting wings and quicken off are all easy round 1 charges for blood angels. Celestine can do it. Da Jump still works round 1. Eldar bikes charging after advance strat. Deamonettes on seekers just plain moving and charging. This list is by no means exhaustive.

Non competative metas? Well I guess have a blast rolling dice and don't think about why games are won and lost? Im not sure. This is a game with a winner and looser, its a competition. Narrative play can teach the mechanics of the game but will give you few of the real lessons that make you better. I find the competition fun and that I learn most and have the most fun playing quality generals with powerful armies. Discussion of tactics at all means the competition is real for the original poster. If your meta can not withstand a real tactical discussion without complaint of cheeese and try hard hate it may be necessary to have a soft version of your list ready at all times. Its supposed to be fun.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

Wings of fire into 3d6 charge, forlorn fury, forward deployed scouts, Mephiston getting wings and quicken off are all easy round 1 charges for blood angels. Celestine can do it. Da Jump still works round 1. Eldar bikes charging after advance strat. Deamonettes on seekers just plain moving and charging. This list is by no means exhaustive.

Thanks. I'll freely admit that I'm not overly familiar with armies that aren't IG, SM, SW, Necrons, or T'au. As much as I'd like to, I don't play any other armies.

 

 

 

Non competative metas? Well I guess have a blast rolling dice and don't think about why games are won and lost? Im not sure. This is a game with a winner and looser, its a competition.

By non-competitive I did, in fact, simply mean "not tournament focused". Clearly you are heavily concerned with who wins and who loses. I don't care if I win or lose, as long as I have a good game. Many people here feel the same way. It's about playing the game to the best of your ability and getting better because you enjoy it. Otherwise why do anything? Why do I shoot if I'll never qualify for Camp Perry, why do I play golf if I'm not trying to win the Masters? Why do I play warhammer if I'm not trying to win the LVO? Simple answer: I enjoy it, and it's a chance to socialize with people who enjoy the same things I do. 

 

 

 

 

 Narrative play can teach the mechanics of the game but will give you few of the real lessons that make you better. 

Clearly you've never played a Narrative Campaign. They can be quite fun. Even a bit competitive between factions.

 

 

 

I find the competition fun and that I learn most and have the most fun playing quality generals with powerful armies.

I think you're conflating competition, with challenge. You like the challenge of playing against difficult opponents. That's fine. Unless it's a tournament, no one cares how many games you win.

 

 

 

Discussion of tactics at all means the competition is real for the original poster. If your meta can not withstand a real tactical discussion without complaint of cheeese and try hard hate it may be necessary to have a soft version of your list ready at all times.

Discussion of tactics means the OP has hit a wall. He's asking for help in overcoming a challenge. You are the one making this about competition. Good tactics are not cheese, but spamming powerful units without any real tactics, is. Using what is available to your faction (or your collection) to its fullest effect is good tactics. No one in my meta has ever complained about my guard lists, even when I use my FW models, even when I take Unique characters, or even when I win. 

 

 

 

 Its supposed to be fun.

Why do I get the distinct feeling that your idea of fun is winning at all costs? 

[duz_]

I think we've discussed this thread enough at this point.

 

The TheAlchemist, if you have more questions for the Frater on this topic please feel free to PM to re-open or start a new thread.