GingerNerd Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Hello, Really just started playing 8th and getting my ass kicked constantly, any helpful critique on my RG army? Got a feeling I need some vehicles of some kind. But not too sure, thanks for the help! Battalion Detachment + 3CP HQ Kayvaan Shrike - 150pts Primaris Librarian - 101pts 1) Veil of Time 2)Fury of the Ancients 3)Force Sword 4) The Armour Indomitus Troops Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Elites 5 x Aggressor w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/ Fragstorm Gauntlets 1 x Aggressor Sergeant - 222pts 2 x Contemptor Dreadnought w/ Kheres Assault Cannon - 330pts 1 x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Storm Shield and Power Swords - 125pts 1x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Lightning Claws - 140pts Heavy Support Devastator Squad 4x Devastator Squad w/ Lascannons 1x Devastator Sergeant w/ Combi Plasma and Thunderhammer - 196pts Total = 1459 pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Looks like a good list. How do you plan on using SftS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerNerd Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 Looks like a good list. How do you plan on using SftS? Was going to have the Aggressors and the VV's come from behind the enemy, but the problem I've been having is that if the opponent is able to counter that then I end up losing most of the VV's before getting into combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Quick note: Your points are off on the Vanguard. Their jump packs are not included in their cost, you have to add them manually. Drop the thunder hammer on the Dev Sgt. If anything gets into melee with them it's go8ng to kill 2 at most, which isn't going to help much at all. If Shrike is your Warlord, send him in with the Vanguard and charge him first to disable Overwatch. I don't like the idea of a 150 point character who is good in melee being a buff bot for the whole game. Consider using the Relic rules for the Contemptors. They're WAY tougher than the standard version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Hello, Really just started playing 8th and getting my ass kicked constantly, any helpful critique on my RG army? Got a feeling I need some vehicles of some kind. But not too sure, thanks for the help! Battalion Detachment + 3CP HQ Kayvaan Shrike - 150pts Primaris Librarian - 101pts 1) Veil of Time 2)Fury of the Ancients 3)Force Sword 4) The Armour Indomitus Troops Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Elites 5 x Aggressor w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/ Fragstorm Gauntlets 1 x Aggressor Sergeant - 222pts 2 x Contemptor Dreadnought w/ Kheres Assault Cannon - 330pts 1 x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Storm Shield and Power Swords - 125pts 1x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Lightning Claws - 140pts Heavy Support Devastator Squad 4x Devastator Squad w/ Lascannons 1x Devastator Sergeant w/ Combi Plasma and Thunderhammer - 196pts Total = 1459 pts Brutal critique? Those vanguard vets are pretty uncompetitive. If you want them to be at least "meh" or even "okayish" they gotta be either dirt cheap or somewhat shooty. 5 vets with plasma pistols is a good option. I run mine with power swords and pistols in two squads of 5. They can land and blast something with plasma then possibly charge. It isnt great but always does something since shooting doesnt require rolling rolling 9+ on 2d6 which is not good odds. You should consider running vanguard vets with just chainswords or maybe powerswords since they only cost 4 points. Both options are solid and cheap. However you have enough points for a 6 man plasma inceptor deathball if you drop the vanguard vets and take an LT instead of a primaris libby. List would be... HQ Shrike LT with jump pack. stormbolter and the teeth of terra Troops Tacs x 5 Tacs x 5 Tacs x 5 Elites Aggressors x 6 Contemptor Dreads with spam cannons x 2 Fast Attack Inceptor x 6 with plasma Heavy Support Devs x 5, 4 lascannons This comes to 1496 points and has a lot more firepower and more rerolls. Those 6 incepts will trash just about any comparable target with shrike and the LT giving rerolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Just some quick mathhammer on 6 inceptors with plasma... With Shrike and an LT they will on average do... 10 unsaved wounds against T8, 3+ for 20 dmg. (Leman Russ Tank) 5.5 unsaved wounds against T7, 3+, 4++, 5+++ FNP. for 11 dmg. (Mortarion) 17 unsaved wounds against T4, 3+. (Marines) You obviously need to splitfire here to avoid wasting shots. 20 unsaved wounds against T4, 5/6+. (Orks) 20 unsaved wounds against T3, 5+ (Eldar) Don't overcharge here. 16.5 unsaved wounds against T7, 3+ for 27 dmg. (most vehicles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Just some quick mathhammer on 6 inceptors with plasma... With Shrike and an LT they will on average do... 10 unsaved wounds against T8, 3+ for 20 dmg. (Leman Russ Tank) 5.5 unsaved wounds against T7, 3+, 4++, 5+++ FNP. for 11 dmg. (Mortarion) 17 unsaved wounds against T4, 3+. (Marines) You obviously need to splitfire here to avoid wasting shots. 20 unsaved wounds against T4, 5/6+. (Orks) 20 unsaved wounds against T3, 5+ (Eldar) Don't overcharge here. 16.5 unsaved wounds against T7, 3+ for 27 dmg. (most vehicles). When 1+1= torpedos down an exhaust port ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerNerd Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Hello, Really just started playing 8th and getting my ass kicked constantly, any helpful critique on my RG army? Got a feeling I need some vehicles of some kind. But not too sure, thanks for the help! Battalion Detachment + 3CP HQ Kayvaan Shrike - 150pts Primaris Librarian - 101pts 1) Veil of Time 2)Fury of the Ancients 3)Force Sword 4) The Armour Indomitus Troops Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Elites 5 x Aggressor w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/ Fragstorm Gauntlets 1 x Aggressor Sergeant - 222pts 2 x Contemptor Dreadnought w/ Kheres Assault Cannon - 330pts 1 x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Storm Shield and Power Swords - 125pts 1x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Lightning Claws - 140pts Heavy Support Devastator Squad 4x Devastator Squad w/ Lascannons 1x Devastator Sergeant w/ Combi Plasma and Thunderhammer - 196pts Total = 1459 pts Brutal critique? Those vanguard vets are pretty uncompetitive. If you want them to be at least "meh" or even "okayish" they gotta be either dirt cheap or somewhat shooty. 5 vets with plasma pistols is a good option. I run mine with power swords and pistols in two squads of 5. They can land and blast something with plasma then possibly charge. It isnt great but always does something since shooting doesnt require rolling rolling 9+ on 2d6 which is not good odds. You should consider running vanguard vets with just chainswords or maybe powerswords since they only cost 4 points. Both options are solid and cheap. However you have enough points for a 6 man plasma inceptor deathball if you drop the vanguard vets and take an LT instead of a primaris libby. List would be... HQ Shrike LT with jump pack. stormbolter and the teeth of terra Troops Tacs x 5 Tacs x 5 Tacs x 5 Elites Aggressors x 6 Contemptor Dreads with spam cannons x 2 Fast Attack Inceptor x 6 with plasma Heavy Support Devs x 5, 4 lascannons This comes to 1496 points and has a lot more firepower and more rerolls. Those 6 incepts will trash just about any comparable target with shrike and the LT giving rerolls. Thanks for the critique, only reason I included the librarian is that before I bought him Is that I was losing most of my army to smite, if I take the librarian out, how would I counter it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Not to sound trite, but if you don't like the receiving end of Smite, then you gotta hunt down their Smiter with vengeance unchained. Is this an all-comers list or can you tailor to the opponent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Hello, Really just started playing 8th and getting my ass kicked constantly, any helpful critique on my RG army? Got a feeling I need some vehicles of some kind. But not too sure, thanks for the help! Battalion Detachment + 3CP HQ Kayvaan Shrike - 150pts Primaris Librarian - 101pts 1) Veil of Time 2)Fury of the Ancients 3)Force Sword 4) The Armour Indomitus Troops Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Tactical Squad x 5 - 65pts Elites 5 x Aggressor w/ Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/ Fragstorm Gauntlets 1 x Aggressor Sergeant - 222pts 2 x Contemptor Dreadnought w/ Kheres Assault Cannon - 330pts 1 x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Storm Shield and Power Swords - 125pts 1x Veteran Vanguard Squad w/ Lightning Claws - 140pts Heavy Support Devastator Squad 4x Devastator Squad w/ Lascannons 1x Devastator Sergeant w/ Combi Plasma and Thunderhammer - 196pts Total = 1459 pts Brutal critique? Those vanguard vets are pretty uncompetitive. If you want them to be at least "meh" or even "okayish" they gotta be either dirt cheap or somewhat shooty. 5 vets with plasma pistols is a good option. I run mine with power swords and pistols in two squads of 5. They can land and blast something with plasma then possibly charge. It isnt great but always does something since shooting doesnt require rolling rolling 9+ on 2d6 which is not good odds. You should consider running vanguard vets with just chainswords or maybe powerswords since they only cost 4 points. Both options are solid and cheap. However you have enough points for a 6 man plasma inceptor deathball if you drop the vanguard vets and take an LT instead of a primaris libby. List would be... HQ Shrike LT with jump pack. stormbolter and the teeth of terra Troops Tacs x 5 Tacs x 5 Tacs x 5 Elites Aggressors x 6 Contemptor Dreads with spam cannons x 2 Fast Attack Inceptor x 6 with plasma Heavy Support Devs x 5, 4 lascannons This comes to 1496 points and has a lot more firepower and more rerolls. Those 6 incepts will trash just about any comparable target with shrike and the LT giving rerolls. Thanks for the critique, only reason I included the librarian is that before I bought him Is that I was losing most of my army to smite, if I take the librarian out, how would I counter it? Ah ok that is actually a good point. How often do you face smite heavy lists? If it is quite often... keeping the libby might be a better choice. In a vacuum its not a good choice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Just some quick mathhammer on 6 inceptors with plasma... With Shrike and an LT they will on average do... 10 unsaved wounds against T8, 3+ for 20 dmg. (Leman Russ Tank) 5.5 unsaved wounds against T7, 3+, 4++, 5+++ FNP. for 11 dmg. (Mortarion) 17 unsaved wounds against T4, 3+. (Marines) You obviously need to splitfire here to avoid wasting shots. 20 unsaved wounds against T4, 5/6+. (Orks) 20 unsaved wounds against T3, 5+ (Eldar) Don't overcharge here. 16.5 unsaved wounds against T7, 3+ for 27 dmg. (most vehicles). When 1+1= torpedos down an exhaust port ... I just thought of something. Darth Vader never failed a psychic test or peril'd throughout star wars. That is some hot dice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aothaine Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Something else that is very important that I did not see asked. Are your opponents bringing competitive lists or friendly lists. There are a lot of ways to list build in 40k and I would warn against making your list so hard that it pushes other new players away. That being said.. You have a good spread of units to make a friendly list. What I would really suggest is the next time you play take some photos of the battle and write us a battle report. Make sure it is okay with your opponent that you are taking pictures of their models first. This will help us help you design a list that will fit your play style better. Raven Guard have very powerful rules and using sfts on the Aggressors is the correct life choice. But then need some support. They have a ton of Dakka but are only on 3 wound toughness 4 platforms with no invlun. Another suggestion I have. Try to play the narrative missions for your first 10-20 games. Play the game to enjoy the story and don't focus too much on building the best list you can. Get a good grasp on the rules and then start to focus on more competitive play. This game can be very unforgiving to newer players, but keep your head up. Watch some bat reps, I really enjoy Tabletop Tactics, and have fun. ^_^ Welcome to the community btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeltaRange Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I personally like your list. There's a few small things I would change. I just think you need more bodies/wounds to control ground and better keep your other units outside 12" for the -1 to hit. 1) You have a considerable amount of chaff clearing power, which is good. Once you can clear his screens, you can drop down with the VV hammer. Except, your VV is more like a drop of rain than a hammer. Instead of 10, go to 5 with SS+TH. -70 points. 2) Drop the stuff on your Dev Sergeant -31 points. 3) Drop 1 Aggressor. -37 points. 4) Make a decision on what you want to do with your Troops. If you go with Tactical Marines, give them a weapon they need to be effective and not just slow moving 1 wound paper weights. If you want them to just basically screen/eat smites, go with Intercessors instead. (this will help you a lot via Smite spam especially) Also, grab at least 1 unit of Scouts. They are absolutely VITAL for Raven Guard because they allow you to seal off territory to protect units deployed via Strike from the Shadows from being hit by deep strikers. Consider the following Troop selection: (+130 points) 10 Intercessors 5 Tactical Marines, Missile Launcher 5 Scouts, bare bones You can use the combination of 10 Intercessors + your Librarian (who takes Psychic Fortress) to deploy via SftS in a manner that will force Smite to hit that unit*, and now each he's trying to eat through models with 2 wounds each and a 4+ to ignore the mortal wounds - instead of killing a model per mortal wound with no save. Intercessor unit can be combat squadded if necessary. 5) The other thing that I would strongly consider is adding a few additional bodies (ablative wounds) to your Devastator Squad, so the Lascannon survive longer. *remember, psychic phase is before shooting. So with a large unit, you actually do have pretty good control as to what unit Smite is going to hit, at least on turn 1 (he can't shoot up one unit, making another unit closer...he has to Smite first then shoot) especially with SftS and especially if his psykers are deployed on the board already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerNerd Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Not to sound trite, but if you don't like the receiving end of Smite, then you gotta hunt down their Smiter with vengeance unchained. Is this an all-comers list or can you tailor to the opponent? Sorry, should have made it clear just playing at the moment against a friend who plays as DG. I'd rather create a list that could be used against most opponents than tailor it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerNerd Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 Something else that is very important that I did not see asked. Are your opponents bringing competitive lists or friendly lists. There are a lot of ways to list build in 40k and I would warn against making your list so hard that it pushes other new players away. That being said.. You have a good spread of units to make a friendly list. What I would really suggest is the next time you play take some photos of the battle and write us a battle report. Make sure it is okay with your opponent that you are taking pictures of their models first. This will help us help you design a list that will fit your play style better. Raven Guard have very powerful rules and using sfts on the Aggressors is the correct life choice. But then need some support. They have a ton of Dakka but are only on 3 wound toughness 4 platforms with no invlun. Another suggestion I have. Try to play the narrative missions for your first 10-20 games. Play the game to enjoy the story and don't focus too much on building the best list you can. Get a good grasp on the rules and then start to focus on more competitive play. This game can be very unforgiving to newer players, but keep your head up. Watch some bat reps, I really enjoy Tabletop Tactics, and have fun. Welcome to the community btw! Thanks for having me, Yeah this is a definitely meant to be a friendly list, Really just started playing 8th (and Warhammer in general) and really don't feel comfortable entering the competitive scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Probably a good plan. Competitive 40k is brutal, especially for new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerNerd Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 OK, so I've made some changes to the list, I've added a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with an assault cannon w/chainfist and a heavy flamer. (took out the other dreadnought) A squad of 10 Intercessors (Though i'm not sure if it would just be cheaper to take the -1cp and take a squad of guardsmen in a Auxiliary Detachment to use as a screening unit.) As well as squad of scouts. Also added a few more generic units into the devastator squad as well as taking the equipment off of the sergeant, as well as taking out the vanguards and added one squad of inceptors w/plasma exterminators instead. Any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 A single squad of Guardsmen isn't worth giving up a command point for. They'll die to a stiff breeze and won't be an effective screen for longer than the first shooting phase. An Eversor Assassin, however, makes an excellent distraction unit. Probably won't actually kill much, but it attracts an inordinate amount of fire for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeltaRange Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 OK, so I've made some changes to the list, I've added a Relic Contemptor Dreadnought with an assault cannon w/chainfist and a heavy flamer. (took out the other dreadnought) A squad of 10 Intercessors (Though i'm not sure if it would just be cheaper to take the -1cp and take a squad of guardsmen in a Auxiliary Detachment to use as a screening unit.) As well as squad of scouts. Also added a few more generic units into the devastator squad as well as taking the equipment off of the sergeant, as well as taking out the vanguards and added one squad of inceptors w/plasma exterminators instead. Any better? I think those are good changes. But, definitely play it and tell us what you think. I know not a lot of people are playing 10 Intercessors, but they are pretty effective, especially against Smite spam combined with a Librarian. You could go with 2x5 or even 1x5 instead if you find you'd rather have the points elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir_Einarsson Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Are eversor And other assasins count as going from reserve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Are eversor And other assasins count as going from reserve? Yes. Which is proper. Marines get the honor of first blood that way ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Are eversor And other assasins count as going from reserve? They have the ability, but it isn't mandatory. You can set them up on the table if you want. Should probably do so in the case of the Vindicare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir_Einarsson Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Yes that i know. But you can’t drop them turn one as diatraction unit or character killer due to beta DS rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Yes that i know. But you can’t drop them turn one as diatraction unit or character killer due to beta DS rules Small potatoes, really. I'm more concerned about the melee-focused armies that rely on deep strike to get in position being unfairly penalized by that. It's already hard enough to pull off a 9"+ charge without potentially giving your opponent 2 full turns to block you from deep striking anywhere useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir_Einarsson Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 On BT forum we are talking about it. Same situation is Probably on BA And DA forum. You may disagree, but we think that GW intended to stop spamming shooty DS like scions/oblits etc. . But They throw CC DS to the same bin, And as CC is weaker than shooting in This edition, it don’t need another nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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