Holier Than Thou Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 If you're making up your own rules, what do we need Games Workshop for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Sure, you can play Narrative games with points. But the other two, are Matched play restrictions. If you don't play matched, there's nothing stopping free reinforcements, or every Psyker having the best MW discipline power available. That's *exactly* what Narrative (and open) allows. And if you keep the matched play restrictions, well, you're playing Matched play, and not Narrative/Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Narrative? With facing 1000 extra points of summoned enemies a turn? Unlimited non Smite Mortal Wound psychic Powers (so no Smite Nerf to help) and everyone get the most expensive upgrades for free? No thanks. The beta DS rules are more fun than trying to cope with any of that. If you and your mates can't have a fun and balanced game without GW holding your hands and telling you how... I mean... GW can't balance for :cuss. Take the game back off them, play how YOU want. If you're making up your own rules, what do we need Games Workshop for? That's a good question. What DO you need them for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danarc Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Narrative? With facing 1000 extra points of summoned enemies a turn? Unlimited non Smite Mortal Wound psychic Powers (so no Smite Nerf to help) and everyone get the most expensive upgrades for free? No thanks. The beta DS rules are more fun than trying to cope with any of that. I strongly agree. Hey I'm not saying it's super balanced. It just fits what he described lol Also you confuse Narrative Play with Power levels. You can play Narrative Play perfectly fine with Points as well. I think that if we complain for a not balanced game the solution can't be a narrative game that isn't balanced by definition. However, here we found a solution. In my meta (but also in the going-on-buliding 40k Italian league) the aip FAQ will not be applied. Maybe this, with others feedback to GW could help. And at least for the next 6 month I don't have to trash my GK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 So why is anyone bother to pay GW for anything then? If we make up the rules, play how we want, why should we purchase any rulebooks? Also, see my sig... Edit: For those really needing a corollary, my group has been playing oWoD since it was originally released. Currently our rule set is a mash of oWoD, nWoD and many various house rules. To make the game work. (Yeah that ancient non Fortitude Prince can be killed in a single hit by any Gangrel Neonate with Claws....). But we don't travel around other gaming groups, or discuss how our Vampire games play on any forums. As the game is entirely our own, and bears little resemblance to how anyone else would know VtM. 40k on the other hand is a vastly different beast. Edit2: For those wanting an actual non competitive, narrative game, any version of the WoD is amazing for that. Actual storytelling games rather than the competitive model wargame any version of 40k is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danarc Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 So why is anyone bother to pay GW for anything then? If we make up the rules, play how we want, why should we purchase any rulebooks? Also, see my sig... A beta isn't mandatory rule. Is a beta. Like when developers release a beta for a OS or app. IF you want you can immediately install and use. IF you don't there's no problem. We decided for the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 My post wasn't replying to yours! sorry! Can't C&P at work, browser issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 You know ... if I were a pessimistic person I'd say GW is trying to phase out Grey Knights with how little support they get. The optimistic part of me tho says that GW might have planned something special with Primaris for GK and that's why we don't see anything happening for the current units and such a low effort Codex. However I'm usually trying to be realistic and there I can only say ... I have literally no clue what's GW thinking about Grey Knights and where they want to go with them. It just makes no sense with the current informations we have. That's terrible business practice though. We'll treat part of our customer base as second class citizens but when it suits us to release something for them they'll throw their money at us. More likely, they'll get so disgusted by the way they've been treated that they go elsewhere and give some other company their money. You say that...but that is exactly how they did sisters of Battle players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holier Than Thou Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 You say that...but that is exactly how they did sisters of Battle players. More fool them then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 You say that...but that is exactly how they did sisters of Battle players.More fool them then. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 So why is anyone bother to pay GW for anything then? If we make up the rules, play how we want, why should we purchase any rulebooks? Well, it's a good question. Take the example of old historical wargames. They were, by and large, published completely without points costs or scenarios. It was left to the players to use the rules in whatever way suited them. I honestly think that's the only way to really enjoy 40K. Use the points published as a rough guideline, and then use the rules to fight battles that you think are exciting or interesting. Special one-off scenarios, narrative campaigns, what-if scenarios, historical re-fights, whatever blows your hair back. If you let GW dictate the terms of what a balanced competitive game should be, you will always be frustrated and disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Bloodbowl does fine. I'm not frustrated or disappointed there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Bloodbowl does fine. I'm not frustrated or disappointed there. Even a broken clock is right twice a day Bloodbowl is a bloody classic. I haven't tried the new version, but so long as they didn't stray too far from the original then it will still be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 You should do! I found out I'm an utter noob. Our Nid guy is mainly a BB player. I'm the only person he's beat when playing halflings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I should, but I have SO many hobby projects on the go already, starting a BB team would be folly. Folly I say! I'll get to it right after I finish my SAGA Normans. And my 15mm Pirates. And my Imperial Assault figures. And my Batman Miniatures Game figures and scenery. And you know, I think I might just have to pick up that new Star Wars: Legions game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 You're missing out on some quality board games! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soder Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 It kinda seems like they’ve just taken away one of the reasons still left to use TDA models (mainly terminators and paladins) And to just use interceptors instead. Especially if they are meant to be able to use their shunt first turn and can get into the enemy zone. I understand that termies and paladins will still have their use against certain armies that don’t have a lot of multi damage weapons and such but this just seems wrong. Don’t get me wrong I will still be using my paladins just because I like the concept of them. I used my paladins in 7th even tho they weren’t the greatest and had some success with them. I had a thought and saw that someone on FB did as well. If they are going to limit half of our PL to deepstrike and not until turn 2 wouldn’t it then be just as fair to make the other army only be able to shoot with half of their PL army in the first round as well? Just some food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Someone posted on Facbook and GW confirmed that GOI and Shunting is not effected by the Reserves rule. At least thats something and we can still bring a fair number of units to someones face Turn 1.And if i could find how to post a pic I would! **EDIT** Just noticed there is a topic with this info already so for those who didnt know just check that** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetcurse Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 No this is still bad! We get to GOI ONE unit and then if we use up all the shunts AND take interceptors we get more units there. It the shunt is used up and a bunch of points sunk on that. Can we just be allowed to DS first turn as before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danarc Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 No this is still bad! We get to GOI ONE unit and then if we use up all the shunts AND take interceptors we get more units there. It the shunt is used up and a bunch of points sunk on that. Can we just be allowed to DS first turn as before?I agree. Shunt 15 interceptor and a QG (draigo?) in face of enemy on turn 1 means trash them all. This is a good news, but I feel that we have to use these ability/power with the new beta rules. Unless we can’t give them an appropriate support we should avoid make them an easy first blood (since their output is enough to make 2 damage to custodes (on average), 3 to termy 6 to PA and 17 to light infantry). Good news, anyway. Now we can try to made some new list, but no one without ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helycon Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Yeah, let's be angry about something our army can still do whilst others can't. Sounds like a plan you should bring to fruition. It seemsike to you guys, the glass is always half empty in stead of half full. This is still a good thing. You have the ability to get 4 units into the face of an opponent with ease. Everything else can deepstrike T2, since a lot of chaff is dead. Sure, transports are better now as extra protection. You really need to take the good things as they come. It'll be better for your well-being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetcurse Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Just roll over and accept the suck. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetcurse Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 This is a huge loss of options for an army that already had little. T1 teleport was a huge part of the lore and strategy. Now we have to use our shunts turn one to get a semblance of it an MAYBE gate one unit in. I’m sorry you can’t see why this sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagah Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Yeah, let's be angry about something our army can still do whilst others can't. Sounds like a plan you should bring to fruition. It seemsike to you guys, the glass is always half empty in stead of half full. This is still a good thing. You have the ability to get 4 units into the face of an opponent with ease. Everything else can deepstrike T2, since a lot of chaff is dead. Sure, transports are better now as extra protection. You really need to take the good things as they come. It'll be better for your well-being. While essentially you are right, we can kind of use the same tactic with a smaller choice of models (no more GMNDK Alpha if you ever used that, etc.). The real cost is 4 CP (loss of Bn) and 60pts (min) if you directly substitute Interceptors for Strikes, and that does not even look at how many more pts you would have to sink in if you wanted to provide protection in case you don't get first turn. Sure you can take both but that is even more of a pts sink on a small number of fragile models limiting our Elite armies resilience. Probably the biggest bonus of this Beta would be less builds designed to defeat Alphas now as they are less common while we retain some functionality in that area. Desperate silver lining? Ironically, Alpha used to be mooted as our only viable tactic (yes I know, entirely arguable), but it was also seen as a not a particularly effective tactic (OK, just not good), and here we all are wishing we could have it back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetcurse Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 It’s our thing! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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