Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

FAQ release today.


  • Please log in to reply
173 replies to this topic

#151
Adeptus

Adeptus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,119 posts

Probably the biggest bonus of this Beta would be less builds designed to defeat Alphas now as they are less common while we retain some functionality in that area.  Desperate silver lining?
Ironically, Alpha used to be mooted as our only viable tactic (yes I know, entirely arguable), but it was also seen as a not a particularly effective tactic (OK, just not good), and here we all are wishing we could have it back!


It wasn't great, but it was all we had and now it's gone.
  • Gentlemanloser likes this

#152
Gentlemanloser

Gentlemanloser

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 14,653 posts
Can anyone explain why GW think it's fine that Interceptors can shut to DS outside DZ turn 1.

But Strike squads can't? 

They are an identicle unit (ignoring the interceptors larger movement). Able to bring the same shooting weapons and having the same chance at cc, with the same cc weapons and attacks. 

But one is deemed too potent. 

What's the logic or reasoning here? 
QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#153
Corvus Fortis

Corvus Fortis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 273 posts

1. Strikes are cheaper.

2. They can fill a battalion.

3. With new guidelines, you will only be able bring 3 interceptors, no limit for strikes.



#154
Gentlemanloser

Gentlemanloser

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 14,653 posts
6 Interceptors if you combat squad them. 8 if playing above 2k.

But is the 4 point difference and the ability to take more (which doesn't really help with the PL reserves rule) reason enough?
QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#155
Helycon

Helycon

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 724 posts
  • Faction: Dark Angels

Just roll over and accept the suck. Got it.

Not what I said. You're looking at it from the wrong angle is what I feel.

Grey Knights are one of the few armies that now have this option. It was deemed strong for everyone, so it was toned down. Do you lose CP's? Only if you skip out on a Batallion completely. They can still be fit into an army. What you bring is simply shifting.

Why not play games with the ruling before going bonkers. Find out what works, find out what doesn't. Send feedback based on these games and offer solutions. Maybe Grey Knights do need to DS everything, maybe some transports should be tweaked, as this could be a means of delivery required. Maybe they'll change the units for the GK codex specifically, and not have the sheets for the other codices change as well (So cheaper Razorbacks for GK, not for SM as an example).

8th edition is still in it's early stages and GW is learning the ropes of a living ruleset. Do they do it perfectly? No. But without feedback, they won't learn.
  • Beams and Brokejaw Gutripper like this

#156
sfPanzer

sfPanzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,790 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Knights of Baal

Damn the negativity here is amazing. The difference of reaction between the GK and the BA subforum is huge!

 

In the BA subforum people are happy that they can get at least 2 units (Furlorn Fury and Upon Wings of Fire) to the enemy turn 1 still.

Here it's more like: "What?! I can get only up to 4 units (outside of tournaments it's even more) to the enemy turn 1 that do basically the same thing as the units I used to deep strike before? Screw that! Everything sucks! Literally unplayable!"

 

I'm not saying there aren't some negative opinions over at the BA subforum since it's obviously a nerf to the situation before after all but the amount and the tone of it is WAY different lol


Edited by sfPanzer, Yesterday, 11:16 AM.

  • Plaguecaster, Beams and Helycon like this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.

 

So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

 

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpg


#157
Gentlemanloser

Gentlemanloser

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 14,653 posts
If We had the depth of unit options that bangels have I'm sure there wouldn't be so much negativity.

We don't.

We simply don't have the tools to adapt.

Heck I'm sure we'd be less negative if we like bangels had access to primaris units.

Hellblasters solve most problems.

Edited by Gentlemanloser, Yesterday, 11:46 AM.

QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#158
Danarc

Danarc

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 337 posts
It seems that you don’t know the GK codex. I’ll resume it to you.
We have to use at least 15 pagk (our cheaper unit) to fill batallion with draigo and another qg for a cheap 600+ points. They only shot 24” so they need raven or rhino/razor for other 250+ points. This as base. We do not have antitank on infantry so we have to list dreddy or razorlaser. Nothing else. No FW. No SM stuff. So we have to stay behind with draigo that grants hit re roll with weaker stuff than SM but we don’t have leutenent or other to wounds reroll. To fill a outraider detachment is another qg 125+ points and at least 375 points for 15 interceptors.
There’s no strategy in here unless send the interceptor in front of the enemy let them die T1 then DS or bring pagk with raven and let them die T2. The raven will be destroyed T1 since there are no more GMDK danger that will arrive T2 (and got destroyed).
But I play GK only since 4th (without a GK named codex) and maybe I am wrong.
And don’t tell me about “send your LR in face of the ennemy T1” because I did. It’s not so useful especially without GMDK or draigo support.

So it is true, we whine a lot but there is a reason.
  • Excessus likes this

#159
Corvus Fortis

Corvus Fortis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 273 posts

Single BA Death company can do more than 15 interceptors combined. When 10 man squad under just Astorath charged my termies, they eaten them alive with a huge overkill. And they have good support units, like primaris, predators and devastators. So this is not a good example.


  • Waking Dreamer and Capt. Mytre like this

#160
Helycon

Helycon

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 724 posts
  • Faction: Dark Angels

It seems that you don’t know the GK codex. I’ll resume it to you.
We have to use at least 15 pagk (our cheaper unit) to fill batallion with draigo and another qg for a cheap 600+ points. They only shot 24” so they need raven or rhino/razor for other 250+ points. This as base. We do not have antitank on infantry so we have to list dreddy or razorlaser. Nothing else. No FW. No SM stuff. So we have to stay behind with draigo that grants hit re roll with weaker stuff than SM but we don’t have leutenent or other to wounds reroll. To fill a outraider detachment is another qg 125+ points and at least 375 points for 15 interceptors.
There’s no strategy in here unless send the interceptor in front of the enemy let them die T1 then DS or bring pagk with raven and let them die T2. The raven will be destroyed T1 since there are no more GMDK danger that will arrive T2 (and got destroyed).
But I play GK only since 4th (without a GK named codex) and maybe I am wrong.
And don’t tell me about “send your LR in face of the ennemy T1” because I did. It’s not so useful especially without GMDK or draigo support.

So it is true, we whine a lot but there is a reason.

You don't need to create an Outrider detachment if you have a Batallion. You can use Interceptors in it just fine.

#161
sfPanzer

sfPanzer

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,790 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Knights of Baal

It seems that you don’t know the GK codex. I’ll resume it to you.
We have to use at least 15 pagk (our cheaper unit) to fill batallion with draigo and another qg for a cheap 600+ points. They only shot 24” so they need raven or rhino/razor for other 250+ points. This as base. We do not have antitank on infantry so we have to list dreddy or razorlaser. Nothing else. No FW. No SM stuff. So we have to stay behind with draigo that grants hit re roll with weaker stuff than SM but we don’t have leutenent or other to wounds reroll. To fill a outraider detachment is another qg 125+ points and at least 375 points for 15 interceptors.
There’s no strategy in here unless send the interceptor in front of the enemy let them die T1 then DS or bring pagk with raven and let them die T2. The raven will be destroyed T1 since there are no more GMDK danger that will arrive T2 (and got destroyed).
But I play GK only since 4th (without a GK named codex) and maybe I am wrong.
And don’t tell me about “send your LR in face of the ennemy T1” because I did. It’s not so useful especially without GMDK or draigo support.

So it is true, we whine a lot but there is a reason.

 

Yeah no :cuss I know the Codex, no need to explain to me the basics.

I know it's not a super great tactic but it's basically the very same thing you lost with the beta rule just that you now have to use a different unit that does the same. So if it's bad now, it was bad before as well. Nothing gained, nothing lost.

Now then if post and pre beta rule GK can do the very same thing anyway (mass deploy of Stormbolter PAGK infront of the enemy) this is obviously not a rant about the FAQ but instead a generic "my Codex is bad" whining. Justified, but not constructive or new.

 

And if you now go with "but muh CP and muh ObSec", then I'd like to remind everyone how the general tone in the other threads was that the Stratagems suck anyway and that ObSec barely matters since you get shot to bits or swarmed by ObSec hordes anyway.


  • Plaguecaster, Helycon and Brokejaw Gutripper like this

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.

 

So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

 

gallery_62972_10568_7658.jpg


#162
Bjarni St.

Bjarni St.

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 6 posts

The reason you're seeing pushback on the silver linings is that it's a watered down version of what GK could already do previously - and that wasn't enough even at full power.

 

To me, the upside of beta reserves is that because armywide deepstrike as a crutch for this sort of hybrid army wasn't working then maybe we can actually get something that does, somewhere down the line*. Hypothetically if we fought tooth and nail (however that would work) and got to keep full deepstrike, out of the rulebook, is that where we want to be?

 

If anything that'd create a kind of false narrative that GKs are always being buffed and having concerns addressed, like we're seeing with the Smite change now. I don't know about you but missing between 0 and 2 (max) Smites for one MW each per turn was not really impacing my games. It felt kind of lame being punished for what totally different armies could do but the +1 to cast mitigated most of it and it didn't ultimately matter.

 

*I realistically don't think we're getting a significant look-in until after they're done shoveling out codexes for every army, at soonest. CA2019.


  • Shagah and Capt. Mytre like this

#163
Shagah

Shagah

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 51 posts

 

And if you now go with "but muh CP and muh ObSec", then I'd like to remind everyone how the general tone in the other threads was that the Stratagems suck anyway and that ObSec barely matters since you get shot to bits or swarmed by ObSec hordes anyway.

 

 

People were complaining our Stratagems sucked?  I do not remember this, I remember lots of people complaining they were too expensive (for what they did, and in comparison to other like Strats in other Codexes), particularly in an army without easy access to CP.

 

To be fair there has been talk on the limited amount of useful Stratagems, and that is probably a legit gripe about whining, as I do not think we are any worse off in the choice department than anyone else. 

But yeah the costs for what they do is I think a reflection of us being first or one of the first cabs off the rank.



#164
Happy-inquisitor

Happy-inquisitor

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 500 posts

Can anyone explain why GW think it's fine that Interceptors can shut to DS outside DZ turn 1.

But Strike squads can't? 

They are an identicle unit (ignoring the interceptors larger movement). Able to bring the same shooting weapons and having the same chance at cc, with the same cc weapons and attacks. 

But one is deemed too potent. 

What's the logic or reasoning here? 

 

 

Yes; there is an element of risk with Interceptors that if your opponent goes first they get a chance to deal with the threat before it is in their face. With Strikes they are off the table and invulnerable to all actions by your opponent. That is clearly part the reasoning behind the beta rule - if you want to hit them in the face on turn 1 there must be some element of risk to it. 

 

The secondary consideration might be that to get in their face on turn 1 you need to use one of the specialised units that can - or enables - a redeploy across the table. Those units are much rarer and generally more expensive so that makes it much less of a tactic that dominates most of the top tables and instead becomes a niche trick that only a few specific builds can pull off. GK are very rare in being able to put multiple units across the table on turn 1 through Interceptors and also Gate. Most armies are limited to just one effective Psychic power or Stratagem[1] so can only jump one unit across the table on turn 1. For most armies it becomes an interesting niche tactic rather then a reliable game-winning gotcha against anyone without massed screening scouting units. As a lot of armies do not  have scouting units it became an arms race of "keep it off the table or lose it to the Gotcha" or "take these allies because you are dead without scouts" in competitive builds, an arms race GW appear not to have intended and is now stepping in to address.

 

Of course if that particular arms race really floated your boat and was a feature of the game you liked then this particular beta rule is not heading in a direction you wanted. You can't please all of the people all of the time and nor can GW.

 

[1] Super-fast units with Fly are an interesting case. I have not seen a heldrake since about September, maybe it would be nice for them to be able to do something that other CSM models can't do for less points so that model has a reason for existing besides looking cool.



#165
Gentlemanloser

Gentlemanloser

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 14,653 posts
Except you can either hide interceptors out of los or due to them not having fly embark them on transports to mitigate going second.

And if you get the all important first turn that's a non issue anyway.

Edit and Strats like strike from the shadows aren't limited in use (apart from cp cost of course. But everyone's just been given more cp anyway).

Mechanically, what's the difference in gameplay between shunting 15 interceptors and gating a GMNDK. To dsing 15 strikes and a GMNDK?

Edited by Gentlemanloser, Today, 07:01 AM.

QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#166
Capt. Mytre

Capt. Mytre

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 224 posts

Except you can either hide interceptors out of los or due to them not having fly embark them on transports to mitigate going second.

And if you get the all important first turn that's a non issue anyway.

Edit and Strats like strike from the shadows aren't limited in use (apart from cp cost of course. But everyone's just been given more cp anyway).

Mechanically, what's the difference in gameplay between shunting 15 interceptors and gating a GMNDK. To dsing 15 strikes and a GMNDK?

 

Nothing, it just costs you more in terms of points and requiring a non-guaranteed power usage to achieve the same thing. Cos GK just weren't expensive enough lol.


  • Gentlemanloser likes this

#167
TheMostGood

TheMostGood

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 205 posts

I said last time I posted here that GW was going to either slightly buff Smite to compensate for the change or leave it alone. Looks like I got it right, woo! 

GW Facebook page confirmed that Shunting and GoI do not count with the beta rules, so you still have that. The goal with the DS beta change is to slow down games (most games were decided around turn 3) and prevent alpha strikes, which can be a problem (hiding units off the board keeps them alive and hit hard coming in). However, just like with smite, GKs also kind of need to have the alpha strike advantage going into a fight because of their small numbers. There's a good chance that GK will either be exempt from this rule as well OR other models will get buffed to compensate (NDK getting some form of Shunt again). You can mark me down for that.

 

I think one thing that is often overlooked are the other things that you get that will help out. The changes to Battalions and Brigades helps GK more than other armies. It's not going to help a guard player that he has a few extra CP because his CP are not as valuable as GK are, for example. 

 

The DS change effects everyone, and really all it does is slow the game down. Besides, how were you handling armies that had screening units anyway? Wouldn't the deepstrike change offer the same outcome? 

The rule of three helps too. GK were not really spamming more than three units in most lists, and it hinders other armies to a greater degree. 

 

The soup list change also helps GKs, and Assassins are easier to take. 

 

I agree that GK should probably be exempt from the deepstrike change or otherwise buffed to compensate if it does go through. I hardly think it is the end of the world for them. Now is the time to test the beta rules and offer constructive feedback. You can roll over on your back if you want, but they can't hear you if you don't say anything. 


Edited by TheMostGood, Today, 07:16 AM.


#168
Happy-inquisitor

Happy-inquisitor

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 500 posts

Except you can either hide interceptors out of los or due to them not having fly embark them on transports to mitigate going second.

And if you get the all important first turn that's a non issue anyway.

Edit and Strats like strike from the shadows aren't limited in use (apart from cp cost of course. But everyone's just been given more cp anyway).

Mechanically, what's the difference in gameplay between shunting 15 interceptors and gating a GMNDK. To dsing 15 strikes and a GMNDK?

 

Like I said it is both elements of risk and of using specialised (and rarer and expensive) units for the purpose. Making turn 1 in-your-face-from-reserves attacks cheap and effective was not producing the game that GW apparently wanted to produce. To be fair to them if they were looking at Adepticon or Caledonian Uprising there was a very strong trend that a lot of players were not happy with. 

 

So if you deploy your 15 Interceptors you are relying on a number of factors that might not occur in a game because they are not totally under your control. You may not get to go first, you may not have sufficient LOS blocking terrain for them all - or your opponent may have weapons which ignore LOS. By contrast the decision to put Strikes into reserves is entirely under your control so there is no risk of it not happening. Strikes are also not subject to the 3-per-army limit. It was the zero risk with zero drawbacks that resulted in lists like this .

 

If you preferred the previous arms race and liked the idea of facing armies that effectively deployed nothing and then hit you full power out of reserves then these changes are not in the direction you would have chosen. You are entitled to that opinion but please accept that other opinions exist and were being expressed increasingly widely in response to what was happening on competitive tables. Perhaps over the next 6 months things will swing another way and GW will on reflection pull back on some of the Beta changes, the smite Beta rule was amended in a couple of ways after having sufficient time on the tables.



#169
Capt. Mytre

Capt. Mytre

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 224 posts

I said last time I posted here that GW was going to either slightly buff Smite to compensate for the change or leave it alone. Looks like I got it right, woo! 

GW Facebook page confirmed that Shunting and GoI do not count with the beta rules, so you still have that. The goal with the DS beta change is to slow down games (most games were decided around turn 3) and prevent alpha strikes, which can be a problem (hiding units off the board keeps them alive and hit hard coming in). However, just like with smite, GKs also kind of need to have the alpha strike advantage going into a fight because of their small numbers. There's a good chance that GK will either be exempt from this rule as well OR other models will get buffed to compensate (NDK getting some form of Shunt again). You can mark me down for that.

 

I think one thing that is often overlooked are the other things that you get that will help out. The changes to Battalions and Brigades helps GK more than other armies. It's not going to help a guard player that he has a few extra CP because his CP are not as valuable as GK are, for example. 

 

The DS change effects everyone, and really all it does is slow the game down. Besides, how were you handling armies that had screening units anyway? Wouldn't the deepstrike change offer the same outcome? 

The rule of three helps too. GK were not really spamming more than three units in most lists, and it hinders other armies to a greater degree. 

 

The soup list change also helps GKs, and Assassins are easier to take. 

 

I agree that GK should probably be exempt from the deepstrike change or otherwise buffed to compensate if it does go through. I hardly think it is the end of the world for them. Now is the time to test the beta rules and offer constructive feedback. You can roll over on your back if you want, but they can't hear you if you don't say anything. 

 

Sorry, but you got it wrong. We still got nerfed in the smite change, only the BoP units remain unchanged, NDK/Dreads/every character still retains the new nerfed version of smite, while only dealing 1 damage.

 

GK have not received any fixes at all since their release in the index. All the evidence suggests that they won't fix any units to compensate from this change (they still haven't fixed a blatant point mistake from the codex) - and if the change is just "this army is exempt", why didn't they do that alongside the GSC exemption?

 

The Battalion and Brigade does not help GK that much. Strikes are far less useful, so to get a brigade we need to take a weaker choice to fill the troop requirements. Secondly, we have very few useful stratagems that are also overpriced, +2 CP means one more stratagem. Lastly, GK can only field a Battalion detachment at around 1900 points, using min squads of everything, leaves very little room for options or any decent units. It just isn't something GK can feasibly field.

 

The deepstirke change effects everyone, but it effects some far more than others. It's like taking a dollar off a poor person and then saying it equally effects the rich. How did we deal with screening before? We would deepstrike and shoot it, and then take a turn of fire because there was nothing to charge, waiting for the second turn before we could actually get a chance at getting into CC against anyone that knows the basics of 40k. Now, it will be on the third turn before we get into CC with a screening army, and we have to survive two/three rounds of being shot at before we can deal with good armour save/high toughness models. Other armies still have decent shooting, so they can shoot from their side of the board and clear a gap for them to DS + charge on the second turn. Almost all our weapons are limited to 24", with overpriced dreadnoughts/landraiders/razorbacks as our long range fire option. We don't have cheap access to rerolls like SM, but we cost the same amount as they do.

 

... but again, it's another person telling us how we should leave feed back, when we've been doing it with nothing to show for it.

 

 

Oh, but they changed the Smite rule for you based on feedback

 

That feedback was literally everyone with half a brain face palming at how GW didn't see the issue with it already. If that change went through with no adjustments, GW just nerfed GK and TS far more than anyone else, they already have a weak smite. Why do we need to point this out to GW? Do they not play their own game? Even still, they nerfed GK with it by not linking it to RoB but to BoP.

 

So many people that don't play GK, and have zero understanding of how it plays.



#170
Helycon

Helycon

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 724 posts
  • Faction: Dark Angels


I said last time I posted here that GW was going to either slightly buff Smite to compensate for the change or leave it alone. Looks like I got it right, woo!

GW Facebook page confirmed that Shunting and GoI do not count with the beta rules, so you still have that. The goal with the DS beta change is to slow down games (most games were decided around turn 3) and prevent alpha strikes, which can be a problem (hiding units off the board keeps them alive and hit hard coming in). However, just like with smite, GKs also kind of need to have the alpha strike advantage going into a fight because of their small numbers. There's a good chance that GK will either be exempt from this rule as well OR other models will get buffed to compensate (NDK getting some form of Shunt again). You can mark me down for that.

I think one thing that is often overlooked are the other things that you get that will help out. The changes to Battalions and Brigades helps GK more than other armies. It's not going to help a guard player that he has a few extra CP because his CP are not as valuable as GK are, for example.

The DS change effects everyone, and really all it does is slow the game down. Besides, how were you handling armies that had screening units anyway? Wouldn't the deepstrike change offer the same outcome?

The rule of three helps too. GK were not really spamming more than three units in most lists, and it hinders other armies to a greater degree.

The soup list change also helps GKs, and Assassins are easier to take.

I agree that GK should probably be exempt from the deepstrike change or otherwise buffed to compensate if it does go through. I hardly think it is the end of the world for them. Now is the time to test the beta rules and offer constructive feedback. You can roll over on your back if you want, but they can't hear you if you don't say anything.


Sorry, but you got it wrong. We still got nerfed in the smite change, only the BoP units remain unchanged, NDK/Dreads/every character still retains the new nerfed version of smite, while only dealing 1 damage.

GK have not received any fixes at all since their release in the index. All the evidence suggests that they won't fix any units to compensate from this change (they still haven't fixed a blatant point mistake from the codex) - and if the change is just "this army is exempt", why didn't they do that alongside the GSC exemption?

The Battalion and Brigade does not help GK that much. Strikes are far less useful, so to get a brigade we need to take a weaker choice to fill the troop requirements. Secondly, we have very few useful stratagems that are also overpriced, +2 CP means one more stratagem. Lastly, GK can only field a Battalion detachment at around 1900 points, using min squads of everything, leaves very little room for options or any decent units. It just isn't something GK can feasibly field.

The deepstirke change effects everyone, but it effects some far more than others. It's like taking a dollar off a poor person and then saying it equally effects the rich. How did we deal with screening before? We would deepstrike and shoot it, and then take a turn of fire because there was nothing to charge, waiting for the second turn before we could actually get a chance at getting into CC against anyone that knows the basics of 40k. Now, it will be on the third turn before we get into CC with a screening army, and we have to survive two/three rounds of being shot at before we can deal with good armour save/high toughness models. Other armies still have decent shooting, so they can shoot from their side of the board and clear a gap for them to DS + charge on the second turn. Almost all our weapons are limited to 24", with overpriced dreadnoughts/landraiders/razorbacks as our long range fire option. We don't have cheap access to rerolls like SM, but we cost the same amount as they do.

... but again, it's another person telling us how we should leave feed back, when we've been doing it with nothing to show for it.

Oh, but they changed the Smite rule for you based on feedback


That feedback was literally everyone with half a brain face palming at how GW didn't see the issue with it already. If that change went through with no adjustments, GW just nerfed GK and TS far more than anyone else, they already have a weak smite. Why do we need to point this out to GW? Do they not play their own game? Even still, they nerfed GK with it by not linking it to RoB but to BoP.

So many people that don't play GK, and have zero understanding of how it plays.

The fact that the smite warp charge change is linked to Brotherhood of Psykers and not Rites of Banishment never occurred to me. It's a shame, that would have been more useful. Something will always be left out though, since Purifiers have a different rule again.

Good catch.

#171
Danarc

Danarc

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 337 posts
Actually every single GK has BoP. Is our chapter tactic.
Despite this, I completely agree with cap mytre.

Moreover +2 CP don’t affect us more than other armies. Affect everyone in the same way since 1CP is a free reroll. No Guard will finish a match with some CP remaining even with +4 (easily) CP.

#172
Helycon

Helycon

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 724 posts
  • Faction: Dark Angels

Actually every single GK has BoP. Is our chapter tactic.
Despite this, I completely agree with cap mytre.

Moreover +2 CP don’t affect us more than other armies. Affect everyone in the same way since 1CP is a free reroll. No Guard will finish a match with some CP remaining even with +4 (easily) CP.

 

Ah yes, exceptions on exceptions. GK do indeed gain the chapter tactic on all units that are psykers. Other marine armies only gain this for infantry, bikes and dreads, where other armies get the trait of sorts applied to every unit. 

 

So every psyker in the GK army gets this exception. 



#173
Capt. Mytre

Capt. Mytre

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 224 posts

Actually every single GK has BoP. Is our chapter tactic.
Despite this, I completely agree with cap mytre.

Moreover +2 CP don’t affect us more than other armies. Affect everyone in the same way since 1CP is a free reroll. No Guard will finish a match with some CP remaining even with +4 (easily) CP.

 

Ah, my mistake (7th edition hangovers). Still, it isn't a buff. At best, it's net zero change.



#174
The Custodian

The Custodian

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2 posts
The problem I see with the FAQ is that even if we have a nice solution to it, that being interceptors, we still end up penalized
Inceptors now would be doing( being a beta) a job that the strikes did , for more points and removing points that could be used in more usefull/different units ( so not only GMNDK but also paladins, ancients, apothecaries ecc) which Didn’t se the table that much already and now even less because we “need” their points for other things
  • Shagah likes this




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users