Spring FAQ is out and it's bad news

[Xerxus]

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/warhammer_40000_The_Big_FAQ_1_2018_en.pdf

 

These changes are painful for our current competitive builds. Really painful. I doubt that Blood Angels will remain competitive after this.

[Pendent]

My only complaint is that I'll have to pay attention to power level when deploying reserves. Toning down the turn 1 alpha striking is objectively a good thing and it's frequently better to wait a turn to strike regardless. The limit of three of a given non-troop unit is again an objectively good thing and should have very minimal impact on most of the builds that I see.

 

This is basically a small indirect nerf but is hardly going to ruin us competetively when every other alpha strike dependent army has the same limitations now.

[Captain_Krash]

What am I missing lol?

 

Krash

[Pendent]

What I assume to be the relevant bits for those who are wondering:

 

 

TACTICAL RESERVES

Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve,

etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at

least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the

battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within

Tr ansports

that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your

army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.

Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the

controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere). This does not apply to a

Genestealer Cults

unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn

begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems).

Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.

 

And here's the limitation on datasheets:

 

 

ORGANISED EVENTS

If you are using matched play for an organised event such as a tournament, we suggest using the table below. As well as a helpful guide to the size of

the battlefield and game length, the number of Detachments each player can take in their army is restricted, as is the number of times a player’s army

can include a particular datasheet. Of course, if you are organising such an event, you should feel free to modify these guidelines to better suit your

event’s own needs, schedule, etc. You can only include the same datasheet in a Battle-forged army up to a maximum number of times, depending

upon the points limit for that game, as described below.

ORGANISED EVENT GUIDELINES

POINTS LIMIT

NUMBER OF DETACHMENTS

NUMBER OF TIMES EACH

DATASHEET CAN BE INCLUDED*

BATTLEFIELD SIZE

GAME LENGTH

Up to 1,000

Up to 2 per army

Up to 2 per army

4' x 4'

Up to 2 hours

1,001-2,000

Up to 3 per army

Up to 3 per army

6' x 4'

2 to 3 hours

2,001-3,000

Up to 4 per army

Up to 4 per army

8' x 4'

3 or more hours

* This does not apply to units with the Troops or Dedicated Transport Battlefield Role, nor does it apply to any units that are added to your army during

the battle that cost reinforcement points.

[Paladin777]

Needing half our PL on the table at the start does hurt pure infantry builds a ton though. I guess that’s another good reason to forlorn fury!

[Indefragable]

What am I missing lol?

 

Krash

 

EDIT:

 

If the Beta rules that say you can only deploy units from Reserves in Turn 1 if they arrive in your own deployment zone become official, then goodbye Descent of Angels.

 

Terminators also became even more hilariously unappetizing.

 

We have a workaround in that Wings of Fire does not count as Reserves, so WoF+DoA remains viable, but it means no WoF'ing support characters to support your DoA unit coming out of Reserves.

 

I have a feeling that this Beta rule is not going to stand as it is...it's just such a hilariously poor attempt to limit things that could get abused.

 

 

On a positive note we just got a shot of CP to the arm:

 

Officially changed so that Battalions are now +5CP and Brigades are +12 CP.

[Pendent]

 

What am I missing lol?

 

Krash

 

EDIT:

 

If the Beta rules that say you can only deploy units from Reserves in Turn 1 if they arrive in your own deployment zone become official, then goodbye Descent of Angels.

 

Terminators also became even more hilariously unappetizing.

 

We have a workaround in that Wings of Fire does not count as Reserves, so WoF+DoA remains viable, but it means no WoF'ing support characters to support your DoA unit coming out of Reserves.

 

I have a feeling that this Beta rule is not going to stand as it is...it's just such a hilariously poor attempt to limit things that could get abused.

 

 

On a positive note we just got a shot of CP to the arm:

 

Officially changed so that Battalions are now +5CP and Brigades are +12 CP.

 

 

It's a clear attempt to limit the absolutely massive alpha strikes that we've seen in 8th edition and I wholeheartedly support the change. I have played a ton of games where the game is over on turn one and that desperately needed to change.

[Indefragable]

 

 

What am I missing lol?

 

Krash

 

EDIT:

 

If the Beta rules that say you can only deploy units from Reserves in Turn 1 if they arrive in your own deployment zone become official, then goodbye Descent of Angels.

 

Terminators also became even more hilariously unappetizing.

 

We have a workaround in that Wings of Fire does not count as Reserves, so WoF+DoA remains viable, but it means no WoF'ing support characters to support your DoA unit coming out of Reserves.

 

I have a feeling that this Beta rule is not going to stand as it is...it's just such a hilariously poor attempt to limit things that could get abused.

 

 

On a positive note we just got a shot of CP to the arm:

 

Officially changed so that Battalions are now +5CP and Brigades are +12 CP.

 

 

It's a clear attempt to limit the absolutely massive alpha strikes that we've seen in 8th edition and I wholeheartedly support the change. I have played a ton of games where the game is over on turn one and that desperately needed to change.

 

 

Yea and this is where "the meta" becomes an interesting factor as well. In my experience, it's Turn 1 Shooting that determines the game. If you are not bringing enough firepower to delete a scary unit of your choice T1, then you've lost before the game has started.

 

Where, IMHO, the Beta rule misfires is the Deployment Zone thing: shooty units are less effected by this since the very nature of--ya know, shooting--means they can still reach out and touch something no matter where they set up. The stabby units (like BA or DeathWing Knights) get particularly hurt since their entry from Reserves is meant to counteract their ability to get shot up before getting into combat.

 

Clearly no one at GW plays Grey Knights, but that's another matter...

[The4thHorseman]

They royally screwed us. They should have just made the Reserves somemthing like only half of your Total Reserves can DS as normal on T1. Then the rest T2 or as you choosr after T1.

Totally just ruined my Termites. Wait. Come in T2. Wait. Get out T3 and do stuff. Why even bother with it.

[Panzer]

I like that they limit alpha strikes, however it just makes horde armies stronger imo since they can easily spread out and cover the board so you can't really deep strike anything anymore unless you wipe half of their army first.

 

On another note it seems that the AM CP-Miner got nerfed, tho we get more CP by taking a Battalion/Brigade detachment now compared to before so it's not THAT bad.

[Pendent]

 

 

 

What am I missing lol?

 

Krash

 

EDIT:

 

If the Beta rules that say you can only deploy units from Reserves in Turn 1 if they arrive in your own deployment zone become official, then goodbye Descent of Angels.

 

Terminators also became even more hilariously unappetizing.

 

We have a workaround in that Wings of Fire does not count as Reserves, so WoF+DoA remains viable, but it means no WoF'ing support characters to support your DoA unit coming out of Reserves.

 

I have a feeling that this Beta rule is not going to stand as it is...it's just such a hilariously poor attempt to limit things that could get abused.

 

 

On a positive note we just got a shot of CP to the arm:

 

Officially changed so that Battalions are now +5CP and Brigades are +12 CP.

 

 

It's a clear attempt to limit the absolutely massive alpha strikes that we've seen in 8th edition and I wholeheartedly support the change. I have played a ton of games where the game is over on turn one and that desperately needed to change.

 

 

Yea and this is where "the meta" becomes an interesting factor as well. In my experience, it's Turn 1 Shooting that determines the game. If you are not bringing enough firepower to delete a scary unit of your choice T1, then you've lost before the game has started.

 

Where, IMHO, the Beta rule misfires is the Deployment Zone thing: shooty units are less effected by this since the very nature of--ya know, shooting--means they can still reach out and touch something no matter where they set up. The stabby units (like BA or DeathWing Knights) get particularly hurt since their entry from Reserves is meant to counteract their ability to get shot up before getting into combat.

 

Clearly no one at GW plays Grey Knights, but that's another matter...

 

 

If you play with enough terrain long range shooting should not be completely crippling an army turn one. This game plays very differently when you have sufficient LOS blocking terrain vs when it's all open.

[Quixus]

 

 

What am I missing lol?

 

Krash

 

EDIT:

 

If the Beta rules that say you can only deploy units from Reserves in Turn 1 if they arrive in your own deployment zone become official, then goodbye Descent of Angels.

 

Terminators also became even more hilariously unappetizing.

 

We have a workaround in that Wings of Fire does not count as Reserves, so WoF+DoA remains viable, but it means no WoF'ing support characters to support your DoA unit coming out of Reserves.

 

I have a feeling that this Beta rule is not going to stand as it is...it's just such a hilariously poor attempt to limit things that could get abused.

 

 

On a positive note we just got a shot of CP to the arm:

 

Officially changed so that Battalions are now +5CP and Brigades are +12 CP.

 

 

It's a clear attempt to limit the absolutely massive alpha strikes that we've seen in 8th edition and I wholeheartedly support the change. I have played a ton of games where the game is over on turn one and that desperately needed to change.

 

What makes it especially ridiculous that you always have to use power levels, even if you use points as balance metric. Good bye 5 man Sanguinary Guard and 6-9 man DC in matched play.

 

Also +5 CP for Battalion and +12 CP for a Brigade. What are they smoking? And that is not even beta.

[Indefragable]

 

 

 

 

What am I missing lol?

 

Krash

 

EDIT:

 

If the Beta rules that say you can only deploy units from Reserves in Turn 1 if they arrive in your own deployment zone become official, then goodbye Descent of Angels.

 

Terminators also became even more hilariously unappetizing.

 

We have a workaround in that Wings of Fire does not count as Reserves, so WoF+DoA remains viable, but it means no WoF'ing support characters to support your DoA unit coming out of Reserves.

 

I have a feeling that this Beta rule is not going to stand as it is...it's just such a hilariously poor attempt to limit things that could get abused.

 

 

On a positive note we just got a shot of CP to the arm:

 

Officially changed so that Battalions are now +5CP and Brigades are +12 CP.

 

 

It's a clear attempt to limit the absolutely massive alpha strikes that we've seen in 8th edition and I wholeheartedly support the change. I have played a ton of games where the game is over on turn one and that desperately needed to change.

 

 

Yea and this is where "the meta" becomes an interesting factor as well. In my experience, it's Turn 1 Shooting that determines the game. If you are not bringing enough firepower to delete a scary unit of your choice T1, then you've lost before the game has started.

 

Where, IMHO, the Beta rule misfires is the Deployment Zone thing: shooty units are less effected by this since the very nature of--ya know, shooting--means they can still reach out and touch something no matter where they set up. The stabby units (like BA or DeathWing Knights) get particularly hurt since their entry from Reserves is meant to counteract their ability to get shot up before getting into combat.

 

Clearly no one at GW plays Grey Knights, but that's another matter...

 

 

If you play with enough terrain long range shooting should not be completely crippling an army turn one. This game plays very differently when you have sufficient LOS blocking terrain vs when it's all open.

 

 

That's why people always deploy their Killshot Predators last so as to get LoS around any terrain. Manuevering also exists.

 

Again, everyone's experience and meta is different, but I have never once ever played on anything ever remotely resembling a bowling ball.

[Palwatch]

Guys I think we may need to look at this differently. It might make us the only game in town as far as alpha strike goes. We've gained 2 command points which can be used for 2 rounds of on wings of fire. Which means we can still get off descent of angels t1 and t2

[Panzer]

It might give DC an edge over Sanguinary Guard tho due the pre-game move. ^^

[Paladin777]

Well I planned on SG being a second turn drop normally anyway...

[Pendent]

Guys I think we may need to look at this differently. It might make us the only game in town as far as alpha strike goes. We've gained 2 command points which can be used for 2 rounds of on wings of fire. Which means we can still get off descent of angels t1 and t2

I'm actually not so sure about this.

 

The wording is "In matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone" and Upon Wings of Fire has you fully removing the affected unit from the battlefield. I'm fairly certain that deployment would be considered "arriving" on the first turn.

[Palwatch]

It's not. Rules that allow it such as strike from the shadows are not effected. Specifically calls those out

[toaae]

15 Death Company are 27 Power Level. A land raider is 16.

 

That part of the Beta rule will kill DC.

[Pendent]

It's not. Rules that allow it such as strike from the shadows are not effected. Specifically calls those out

The wording is

This does not apply to a Genestealer Cults unit that is being set up according to the Cult Ambush ability, or to units that are set up after the first battle round has begun, but before the first turn begins (such as those set up via the Forward Operatives or Strike From the Shadows Stratagems

 

This very clearly does not refer to Upon Wings of Fire.

[Palwatch]

Except you aren't in tactical reserves. The units are on the battlefield. So wings of fire isn't effected

[Pendent]

Except you aren't in tactical reserves. The units are on the battlefield. So wings of fire isn't effected

Upon Wings of Fire explicitly says you remove the model from the battlefield. The tactical reserves rules also don't require that the unit have been placed in reserves during deployment, only that it "arrive" during the first turn.

[Palwatch]

It didn't arrive though. It was already there

Will be interested to see the ruling on it. If WoF is exempt then we are awesome. Suppose that's why it's a beta. Won't be doing this until clarified

[Pendent]

It didn't arrive though. It was already there

Will be interested to see the ruling on it. If WoF is exempt then we are awesome. Suppose that's why it's a beta. Won't be doing this until clarified

 

Explain to me why units that have used Upon Wings of Fire are able to use Descent of Angels then, since the requirement for that strategem is that "Use this Strategem before making a charge roll with a BLOOD ANGELS JUMP PACK unit from your army that was set up on the battlefield earlier this turn." I'm not sure what the difference between "set up on the battlefield" and "arrived" is supposed to be in your mind.

[Palwatch]

Dude I'm just calling it as I see it. Please stop with the agression