The Big FAQ: Chaos Changes

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

The big changes:

 

 

Chosen get more weapon options (melee weapons for all the squad)

 

I've not read though them all yet.  But just wanted to check, does this mean Chosen are ok to take Bolter, Bolt Pistol & Chainsword.  Or is this just more aim that combat weapon like Power Sword, Power Fist, etc....?

 

"Chainsword" is on the Melee Weapons list, so yes. Also, "Chainaxe" is there too. Hello WE Chosen of Khorne.

 

Sure, they can't fight twice innately, but they get some extra attacks anyway and can bring a lot of Plasma to the party before they charge in.

[Scourged]

I find the Helbrute entry a bit odd. It comes only with one Fist by default so can only replace that one anyway. I didn't think it's possible to juggle with the loadout like that (trading the ranged weapon for a fist and then trading that one for another melee weapon).

Tho if that's how it's intended I kinda want a double Scourge Helbrute now ... 10 S8 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 3+ lol

Agreed that the wording is sloppy, but the intention is clear. And actually... thanks to Battering Onslaught it's 11 attacks. 

[Panzer]

Even better! :D

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

I find the Helbrute entry a bit odd. It comes only with one Fist by default so can only replace that one anyway. I didn't think it's possible to juggle with the loadout like that (trading the ranged weapon for a fist and then trading that one for another melee weapon).

 

Tho if that's how it's intended I kinda want a double Scourge Helbrute now ... 10 S8 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 3+ lol

Agreed that the wording is sloppy, but the intention is clear. And actually... thanks to Battering Onslaught it's 11 attacks. 

 

If you're gonna do that, make it World Eaters. 12!

[Panzer]

 

 

I find the Helbrute entry a bit odd. It comes only with one Fist by default so can only replace that one anyway. I didn't think it's possible to juggle with the loadout like that (trading the ranged weapon for a fist and then trading that one for another melee weapon).

 

Tho if that's how it's intended I kinda want a double Scourge Helbrute now ... 10 S8 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 3+ lol

Agreed that the wording is sloppy, but the intention is clear. And actually... thanks to Battering Onslaught it's 11 attacks. 

 

If you're gonna do that, make it World Eaters. 12!

 

 

Never! Emperor's Children ftw!

 

... dammit I think I need a few Helbrutes and somehow get my hands on a bunch of Power scourges now >_>

[Scourged]

At a negligible point difference, that beast will outperform a Maulerfiend. Easy. More attacks, non-degrading strength, higher strength compared to Lasher tendril profile, better WS, Legion traints, and it will chew through infantry hard. But you have to sacrifice being Daemonic, Infernal Regeneration, and you take a hit on wounds. This makes for some fun decision making. 

[Khornestar]

Yeah, I'm suddenly down to run a brute or two.

[Dragonlover]

 

I literally just bought a second fire Raptor after finalising a list. Really not sure what do now with that.

Dragonlover

 

 

How was it affected?

Went up by 90 points. Means I've gotta find 180 points somewhere, I think I might be sacrificing a Helbrute and some cultists.

 

Dragonlover

[Kaiju Soze]

I'm playing Renegades. Melee brutes are already a thing for me. Not sure twin hammer is worth it but I can easily see tentacle brute of doom showing up in my army at some point.

[Panzer]

I honestly think Twin hammer is the worst loadout. Slightly better, if at all, than fists but with fists you can have a little bit more dakka on your way into melee. And definitely worse than double Scourge. ^^

[Scourged]

Double hammer gets even worse when you realize on top of all that, double fist costs less than a single hammer thanks to Chapter Approved. Yeah... can't ever see a reason four double hammer. At least double scourges compensates by more than doubling your base attacks.

[Confused Word Bearer]

Well, I’d just written a list to get back into 40k with and out the window it goes with this FAQ.

[Closet Skeleton]

 

 

I find the Helbrute entry a bit odd. It comes only with one Fist by default so can only replace that one anyway. I didn't think it's possible to juggle with the loadout like that (trading the ranged weapon for a fist and then trading that one for another melee weapon).

 

Tho if that's how it's intended I kinda want a double Scourge Helbrute now ... 10 S8 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 3+ lol

Agreed that the wording is sloppy, but the intention is clear. And actually... thanks to Battering Onslaught it's 11 attacks. 

 

If you're gonna do that, make it World Eaters. 12!

 

Black Legion warlord trait + prescience.

[Akrim]

Not a good day for us Chaos players. Guess I can scratch Warp Talons off my painting list. The first turn - only deploy within your own zone really zaps us hard.

 

So Fire Raptor drops 60pts in Chapter Approved then goes back up 90pts... is this a joke?

 

Meanwhile Dark Reapers become 12pts?! Enjoy another all-Eldar tournament season.

[AceofCase]

Well, on the bright side... Noise Marines can do very silly grenade shenanigans in the fight phase and Gift of Chaos got a rather stealthy buff in that it targets units instead of a single model for d3+3 mortal wounds.

[Lord Abaia]

I was fine with holding my Warp Talons in reserve until turn 2 anyway. It made it easier to get a combined turn 2 charge off with a unit that started on the board. The Warp Talons spread out and charge as many units as possible to deny overwatch and my Berzerkers or whatever charge in. What really kills me is not being able to target them with Warp Time the turn they drop in. Prepare to get blasted off the table by Agressors and that 1 CP stratagem that let's you shoot a deep striking unit within 12". At least let Warp Talons take an Icon of Wrath or something or deny overwatch on turns other than the turn they arrive from reserves.

 

It's a unit I really want to use, but I just don't know what they are supposed to do now.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Not a good day for us Chaos players. Guess I can scratch Warp Talons off my painting list. The first turn - only deploy within your own zone really zaps us hard.

 

So Fire Raptor drops 60pts in Chapter Approved then goes back up 90pts... is this a joke?

 

Meanwhile Dark Reapers become 12pts?! Enjoy another all-Eldar tournament season.

Dark Reapers were 5 points before weapons. They've gotten a 7point increase and now you can't field more than 3 units at an organized event per the new guidelines.

 

Everyone else's (move after deep strike) abilities have been nerfed, though any charge rerolls, etc. remain. It got riskier for everybody, though WT's seem to have been hit extra hard because they can't take Icons....though maybe Daemon synergies will help.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

 

 

I find the Helbrute entry a bit odd. It comes only with one Fist by default so can only replace that one anyway. I didn't think it's possible to juggle with the loadout like that (trading the ranged weapon for a fist and then trading that one for another melee weapon).

 

Tho if that's how it's intended I kinda want a double Scourge Helbrute now ... 10 S8 AP-2 D2 attacks hitting on 3+ lol

Agreed that the wording is sloppy, but the intention is clear. And actually... thanks to Battering Onslaught it's 11 attacks. 

 

If you're gonna do that, make it World Eaters. 12!

 

Black Legion warlord trait + prescience.

 

Helbrutes don't have Death to the False Emperor.

[Akrim]

Dark Reapers were 5 points before weapons. They've gotten a 7point increase and now you can't field more than 3 units at an organized event per the new guidelines.

 

Everyone else's (move after deep strike) abilities have been nerfed, though any charge rerolls, etc. remain. It got riskier for everybody, though WT's seem to have been hit extra hard because they can't take Icons....though maybe Daemon synergies will help.

 

Bah forgot the wargear points - whew disregard.

 

On another note I just came to realize how bad a kick in the junk daemon bombing just took. Cant deep strike near enemy until Turn 2, summon till Turn 3 (screwed if you dont) and now probably not assault till Turn 4.

[Plaguecaster]

So the gave the Spartan the ability to ignore the heavy weapon modifier but not any of the other FW land raiders like the Archilles or proteus that's stupid

[masterstrider]

 

Not a good day for us Chaos players. Guess I can scratch Warp Talons off my painting list. The first turn - only deploy within your own zone really zaps us hard.

 

So Fire Raptor drops 60pts in Chapter Approved then goes back up 90pts... is this a joke?

 

Meanwhile Dark Reapers become 12pts?! Enjoy another all-Eldar tournament season.

Dark Reapers were 5 points before weapons. They've gotten a 7point increase and now you can't field more than 3 units at an organized event per the new guidelines.

 

Everyone else's (move after deep strike) abilities have been nerfed, though any charge rerolls, etc. remain. It got riskier for everybody, though WT's seem to have been hit extra hard because they can't take Icons....though maybe Daemon synergies will help.

 

 

Yeah, I think Eldar got off pretty light. Meanwhile, CSM will struggle to move toward the enemy without being shot to pieces along the way. This does feel like CSM got nerfed pretty hard.

Warptime - nerfed

Deep Strike - nerfed

Cultists - nerfed

Warp Talons - nerfed

Tide of Traitors - nerfed

 

They're some mainstays of our list, all nerfed. Does GW want CSM to walk over to the enemy?

 

There are few things that stand out:

*LoS blocking terrain will be a BIG factor in how games turn out.

*Forward Operatives just became completely awesome again since you can forward deploy, oh, I dunno, 120 cultists and 20-40 berzerkers for a T1 charge.

*CSM have even less ways of closing the gap between the enemy.

*Renegades are pretty good now. Starting on the board, you can move, advance, charge and use Warptime to get good units into position T1, so no change, but it's now more valuable.

*Taking cultists in units of 10 to farm battalion CPs will be a thing again, with the increase from +3 to +5CP for a battalion detachment.

*Extra CPs will mean that we can be more deadly each round with more uses of Forward Ops, VotLW, EC, Killshot and Daemonforge.

[Lord Zharak]

 

 

Not a good day for us Chaos players. Guess I can scratch Warp Talons off my painting list. The first turn - only deploy within your own zone really zaps us hard.

 

So Fire Raptor drops 60pts in Chapter Approved then goes back up 90pts... is this a joke?

 

Meanwhile Dark Reapers become 12pts?! Enjoy another all-Eldar tournament season.

Dark Reapers were 5 points before weapons. They've gotten a 7point increase and now you can't field more than 3 units at an organized event per the new guidelines.

 

Everyone else's (move after deep strike) abilities have been nerfed, though any charge rerolls, etc. remain. It got riskier for everybody, though WT's seem to have been hit extra hard because they can't take Icons....though maybe Daemon synergies will help.

 

 

Yeah, I think Eldar got off pretty light. Meanwhile, CSM will struggle to move toward the enemy without being shot to pieces along the way. This does feel like CSM got nerfed pretty hard.

Warptime - nerfed

Deep Strike - nerfed

Cultists - nerfed

Warp Talons - nerfed

Tide of Traitors - nerfed

 

They're some mainstays of our list, all nerfed. Does GW want CSM to walk over to the enemy?

 

There are few things that stand out:

*LoS blocking terrain will be a BIG factor in how games turn out.

*Forward Operatives just became completely awesome again since you can forward deploy, oh, I dunno, 120 cultists and 20-40 berzerkers for a T1 charge.

*CSM have even less ways of closing the gap between the enemy.

*Renegades are pretty good now. Starting on the board, you can move, advance, charge and use Warptime to get good units into position T1, so no change, but it's now more valuable.

*Taking cultists in units of 10 to farm battalion CPs will be a thing again, with the increase from +3 to +5CP for a battalion detachment.

*Extra CPs will mean that we can be more deadly each round with more uses of Forward Ops, VotLW, EC, Killshot and Daemonforge.

 

 

Aside from Tide affecting Cultists, in what way did they get nerfed? 

[masterstrider]

Aside from Tide affecting Cultists, in what way did they get nerfed? 

 

Warptime - nerfed - cannot cast this on a unit after it arrives on the battlefield from reserves, e.g. deep strike, webway portal, etc. This was it's main use - to get a unit into assault range T1 - so we don't get shot to pieces by shooty armies.

Deep Strike - nerfed - cannot deploy outside your deployment zone on the first turn you arrive. So anything that is assault based has to wait until T2, or deploy in your DZ. That's bad.

Cultists - nerfed - well, Tide of Traitors become once per game. That's a shame, but it's okay. I think regenerating a free 160pt unit was a bit uncool.

Warp Talons - nerfed - they rely on warptime once they land on the battlefield to get into combat. Now they have to make a 9" charge and if they fail, they lose their special ignore overwatch ability.

Terminator bomb - nerfed - you cannot use the plasmanator bomb until T2. This could be doable, but finding somewhere to land could be a problem and once again, you cannot get them into melee after they unleash unless you roll that magic 9" charge.

 

I think that's bad enough for one day....

[Iron_Within]

In my meta the armies that were already strong have been buffed further (astra Militarum is about 40% of the players- always had been) and nerfed is.

I feel they've looked to closely at hyper competitive tournaments and not at gaming group level

[ERJAK]

BRB FAQ, Page 8, 

 

"Is the deployment step of a mission considered a 'phase' for the purposes of rules? No"

 

Forward Operatives just got HILARIOUS

Most people were already playing that and strike from the shadows that way.

In my meta the armies that were already strong have been buffed further (astra Militarum is about 40% of the players- always had been) and nerfed is.

I feel they've looked to closely at hyper competitive tournaments and not at gaming group level

See, ya say that, but they didn't look too closely at hyper competitive tournaments either. They put a bandaid on a flesh-wound while shooting most things in the gut. Whatever army can run the best gunline(and eldar) are going to hilariously better than every other army.