Sisters and Big FAQ #1

[CaptainMarsh]

My biggest beef is that I don't personally have enough heavy support for a brigade but I'm not allowed enough HQs for two batalions (unless I go with a special character). We just need another HQ option, and I'd be pretty much a-okay with the changes.

 

Give Sisters another HQ, give the Ministorum a non-Sisters HQ, let Imperium armies take Inquisitors as HQs breaking the new anti-soup rules. I just want one more.

One more Sister HQ would solve issues, yeah. A Cadre Fireblade/Lieutenant type of cheap, effective HQ.

[bkde]

 

 

My biggest beef is that I don't personally have enough heavy support for a brigade but I'm not allowed enough HQs for two batalions (unless I go with a special character). We just need another HQ option, and I'd be pretty much a-okay with the changes.

 

Give Sisters another HQ, give the Ministorum a non-Sisters HQ, let Imperium armies take Inquisitors as HQs breaking the new anti-soup rules. I just want one more.

One more Sister HQ would solve issues, yeah. A Cadre Fireblade/Lieutenant type of cheap, effective HQ.

I'm hoping they'll do that with a Palatine or something

[Aqui]

 

 

My biggest beef is that I don't personally have enough heavy support for a brigade but I'm not allowed enough HQs for two batalions (unless I go with a special character). We just need another HQ option, and I'd be pretty much a-okay with the changes.

Give Sisters another HQ, give the Ministorum a non-Sisters HQ, let Imperium armies take Inquisitors as HQs breaking the new anti-soup rules. I just want one more.

One more Sister HQ would solve issues, yeah. A Cadre Fireblade/Lieutenant type of cheap, effective HQ.

I'm hoping they'll do that with a Palatine or something

I'm hoping so too. It would also be good if Veridyan got rules again too.

[CaptainMarsh]

Another special character like Veridyan and a normal HQ like a Palatine would be sweet.

[foxlight713]

Updated faq for sisters clarifies:

 

Can a unit use AoF when in a transport?

No.

 

Can a unit notnon the battlefield AoF?

No.

 

AoF in reppressor argument is now over.

 

Notnon?? 

[ERJAK]

 

 

You can't soup Custodes with anyone. Battle Brothers says Imperium isn't a valid keyword anymore so they don't share a Faction keyword anymore.

There are two ways people refer to Soup. You cannot 'Soup' as in bringing them in the same Detachment. You can still 'Soup' by bringing them in an allied detachment. Some people still call that Soup.

 

@ERJAK- The 6 Seraphim build is very strong, but I'd contend that the reason it did well is because of how unexpected it was and how no one really knew how to counter it. A peculiar build from a small army? Hard to prepare for. What harms builds for them more now is the DS rule change.

 

Nonetheless, it seemed to be from the start that something like this might happen. A 0-X restriction always felt like it was going to come down because of the abuses people heaped upon it.

Melee armies are straight up dead now, so the two blood angels captains he runs would be out for sure.

 

My issue is that it's a stupid, arbitrary number that punishes different armies very differently. SoB get quite a bit weaker (dominions really need 4 units to able to do what they're meant to) but armies like dark angels get absolutely destroyed while Eldar, Nids, and especially Guard just don't care at all.

 

And the more I think about it the more I think that with the brigade buff an SoB brigade list might be our best option now if you want to run you army as SoB primary, but it's slower than other list and it's got quite a lot of tax. 2 Tax imagifier, a tax unit of retributors, 3 tax units of battle sisters, a tax canoness...i mean...all said you have MAYBE 200pts left after filling out the minimum and the minumum leaves you with right around 350pts of pure tax.

 

It's still a solid enough list, but it just feels so constrained. Plus it doesn't help that I'll only be able to use maybe 3 of my 8 immolators.

[Eddie Orlock]

Another special character like Veridyan and a normal HQ like a Palatine would be sweet.

How about a Named Repentia. A poor sister who just can't quite fail to catch a break on the battlefield. Possibly wracked by survivor guilt, with each battle she makes it through only making it worse?

[dracpanzer]

My issue is that it's a stupid, arbitrary number that punishes different armies very differently. SoB get quite a bit weaker (dominions really need 4 units to able to do what they're meant to) but armies like dark angels get absolutely destroyed while Eldar, Nids, and especially Guard just don't care at all.

1000% This.

[Atrus]

Ive never had a real problem running pure SoB without having to rely on multiples of seraphim or doms or the other "must haves" of ours.

Ive fielded brigades with 3 exorcists, 2 seraphim and dom in repressor and 3 imagifiers; and had only successful results.

The doom and gloom "were boned" sky is falling rants are completely lost to me. We're solid. So we cant spam the shinies. Neither can anyone else.

[General Strike]

Man...so sisters have Cannoness, Celestine, and that resin named model. For a double batt we need to use both named characters. Hopefully with the model update we get a jump pack Cannoness with a different datasheet. Like TDA space marine captains.

[Montford]

Just looked through the new FAQs and did not see anything that would hinder my Sisters! I have a tournament in June and I will check with the TO this week to verify what he will be implementing from this new FAQ.

[ERJAK]

Ive never had a real problem running pure SoB without having to rely on multiples of seraphim or doms or the other "must haves" of ours.

Ive fielded brigades with 3 exorcists, 2 seraphim and dom in repressor and 3 imagifiers; and had only successful results.

The doom and gloom "were boned" sky is falling rants are completely lost to me. We're solid. So we cant spam the shinies. Neither can anyone else.

I'm not saying we're doomed, I'm saying we're worse, and we objectively are. We're still easily the best index army but we're not as flexible as we used to be. 

 

And how many of those games were against high end netlists piloted by skilled players? I haven't lost a PUG game this entire edition, that doesn't mean sisters were super OP.

 

Also, not that many lists that were good before care about the unit limiter. Nid players will just use more biovores, Eldar players will just use bigger units of reapers, guard players aren't affect at all thanks to vehicle squadrons, Necrons don't care, Tau had a limiter like this built into their codex.

 

I was going through it, of all the lists I saw at adepticon, only Flyrant spam is going to end up being REALLY different after. In fact, not one army I played against would have to change anything. They'd actually be BETTER because they'd all get more CP. Meanwhile my list wouldn't be legal.

Man...so sisters have Cannoness, Celestine, and that resin named model. For a double batt we need to use both named characters. Hopefully with the model update we get a jump pack Cannoness with a different datasheet. Like TDA space marine captains.

The resin model isn't named anymore. You have to use jacobus as the 5th HQ.

[Lord Grimskull]

My 5-Cannoness "Unit" Nooooo!

[A.T.]

Need the jump canoness - as models with different armour/bikes/jump packs are all different dataslates.

[ERJAK]

Need the jump canoness - as models with different armour/bikes/jump packs are all different dataslates.

We only have to wait until q3-q4 2019.

[Mekhitar]

Give 10 rets with 4 MM a try - you might be very surprised. I don’t consider them a tax at all. :)

 

I’m a little sad, because after 40+ games of pure sisters, all the time, I finally relaxed a little and started throwing in an assassin, inquisitor, bike cap, and/or an IG flier or two, for fun, and now am either going to have to go back to straight sisters or bend farther the other way with Supreme commands and flier wings. (Or invest in some Custodes troops, I suppose.)

 

That being said, some of the soupy detachments I have seen at local tournaments make me glad they are going for straight detachments; I still think inquisitors should be exempt, though.

 

And, on reflection, since my brigade is netting me more cp that our (index) army really doesn’t need, I can eat the -1 to snag an assassin or bike cap aux. I’ve been doing it to field the avenger anyway, because 11cp was still plenty.

 

I don’t know, I just don’t feel hurt by this FAQ. And after playing two back to back games v blood angel bombs, it will be nice to fight something else.

 

Ymmv, of course. I don’t mean to speak for everyone, but I can at least offer some counter experiences.

[Aothaine]

So, after some more thought into this I'm not so worried anymore. These are suggestions for matched play. By the time I will be playing in any competitions these rules will have been ironed out, we will have our plastic miniatures and  possibly our codex. ^_^

 

I am really enjoying the changes so far and how it will change the meta. ^_^

[Beams]

My multimelta rets basically just create.a 24" bubble that the opponent avoids. And since an Imagifier is only 3 pts more than Another mm ret, it's always worth it to stick one near them...

 

I might finally start running BSSs though I'm not sure exactly how. Will putting them in a Repressor help? Will I still be able to do my first strike, and then follow up with a second? Or will the new rules make that too hard? I guess we'll see... If only I had another thirty+ Bolter sisters, I'd just run them all on foot, max squad size.

[Mekhitar]

^ I love using the AoF to move them 6” and back into range - and am not above using their ordinary move as well, because 4s still hit. Love them.

 

I usually run 6 bs squads, 4 with storm/hb and two with double melta in flame immolators. The ones on foot made for decent screen, and the heavy bolters tend to stick around and plink away.

[ERJAK]

Give 10 rets with 4 MM a try - you might be very surprised. I don’t consider them a tax at all.

 

I’m a little sad, because after 40+ games of pure sisters, all the time, I finally relaxed a little and started throwing in an assassin, inquisitor, bike cap, and/or an IG flier or two, for fun, and now am either going to have to go back to straight sisters or bend farther the other way with Supreme commands and flier wings. (Or invest in some Custodes troops, I suppose.)

 

That being said, some of the soupy detachments I have seen at local tournaments make me glad they are going for straight detachments; I still think inquisitors should be exempt, though.

 

And, on reflection, since my brigade is netting me more cp that our (index) army really doesn’t need, I can eat the -1 to snag an assassin or bike cap aux. I’ve been doing it to field the avenger anyway, because 11cp was still plenty.

 

I don’t know, I just don’t feel hurt by this FAQ. And after playing two back to back games v blood angel bombs, it will be nice to fight something else.

 

Ymmv, of course. I don’t mean to speak for everyone, but I can at least offer some counter experiences.

I won't be surprised. I know exactly how overpriced that unit is. And a squad of ten retributors is just too inefficient, you're spending 45pts on the privilege of being able to spend 2 cp saving the unit, on the off chance it survives being targeted. For the same amount of points as a 10 girl MM retributor squad you could get an entire guard battalion with the infinite CP cycle, a squad of 3 melta BSS in a repressor/immolator, a jetbike captain, 2 heavy bolter retributor squads and a hospitaller. It might have performed fine in a vacuum, but when you compare it to the things you could be taking instead, it just doesn't stack up.

[Mekhitar]

Correct, it is not objectively the best imperium unit out there for the points - but it does very well for its points nonetheless, and is much better AT than any of the other options you suggest as alternatives.

 

Most games I play, the unit is still alive at the end of the match, and frequently with most, even all, of the MMs intact. I have spent 2cps to keep it on the table a few times, but as I’m playing a sisters index army and a brigade... I’m hardy starved for cps; I have more than I know what to do with.

 

I don’t know if you are speaking theoretically about the unit or have actually run it a number of times and been disappointed. It’s actually been my favorite and most damaging / effective unit (bar Celestine, of course), far outliving its sisterly AT counterparts - melta seraphim and doms, who I also run, and generally outperforming both in terms of damage.

 

As I said originally, ymmv. But as this is about the FAQ, it is with that context in mind that I write: people looking for alternatives to dominions with melta, while adhering to the rule of 3, do have options on the sisters Codex, and they are viable options.

 

(I usually field them in the middle of my deployment, screened, in a ruin if available, or behind an immolator wall to block Los if necessary. If I go second they usually double tap. If I go first, I usually AoF move them into position.)

[Beams]

 

 

Give 10 rets with 4 MM a try - you might be very surprised. I don’t consider them a tax at all.

 

I’m a little sad, because after 40+ games of pure sisters, all the time, I finally relaxed a little and started throwing in an assassin, inquisitor, bike cap, and/or an IG flier or two, for fun, and now am either going to have to go back to straight sisters or bend farther the other way with Supreme commands and flier wings. (Or invest in some Custodes troops, I suppose.)

 

That being said, some of the soupy detachments I have seen at local tournaments make me glad they are going for straight detachments; I still think inquisitors should be exempt, though.

 

And, on reflection, since my brigade is netting me more cp that our (index) army really doesn’t need, I can eat the -1 to snag an assassin or bike cap aux. I’ve been doing it to field the avenger anyway, because 11cp was still plenty.

 

I don’t know, I just don’t feel hurt by this FAQ. And after playing two back to back games v blood angel bombs, it will be nice to fight something else.

 

Ymmv, of course. I don’t mean to speak for everyone, but I can at least offer some counter experiences.

I won't be surprised. I know exactly how overpriced that unit is. And a squad of ten retributors is just too inefficient, you're spending 45pts on the privilege of being able to spend 2 cp saving the unit, on the off chance it survives being targeted. For the same amount of points as a 10 girl MM retributor squad you could get an entire guard battalion with the infinite CP cycle, a squad of 3 melta BSS in a repressor/immolator, a jetbike captain, 2 heavy bolter retributor squads and a hospitaller. It might have performed fine in a vacuum, but when you compare it to the things you could be taking instead, it just doesn't stack up.

You say this, but a squad of 10 in cover is fairly durable, and if they are shooting at a squad of ten in cover, they aren't shooting at my Repressors or my Seraphim.

 

In addition, 8 multimelta shots a turn is pretty powerful, and is almost guaranteed to turn 1-2 big things that gets too close to slag.

 

I'd much rather have then than an exorcist or an armiger or even a guard battalion that sits there and dies at the slightest provacation and misses its shots half the time.

[ERJAK]

 

 

Give 10 rets with 4 MM a try - you might be very surprised. I don’t consider them a tax at all.

 

I’m a little sad, because after 40+ games of pure sisters, all the time, I finally relaxed a little and started throwing in an assassin, inquisitor, bike cap, and/or an IG flier or two, for fun, and now am either going to have to go back to straight sisters or bend farther the other way with Supreme commands and flier wings. (Or invest in some Custodes troops, I suppose.)

 

That being said, some of the soupy detachments I have seen at local tournaments make me glad they are going for straight detachments; I still think inquisitors should be exempt, though.

 

And, on reflection, since my brigade is netting me more cp that our (index) army really doesn’t need, I can eat the -1 to snag an assassin or bike cap aux. I’ve been doing it to field the avenger anyway, because 11cp was still plenty.

 

I don’t know, I just don’t feel hurt by this FAQ. And after playing two back to back games v blood angel bombs, it will be nice to fight something else.

 

Ymmv, of course. I don’t mean to speak for everyone, but I can at least offer some counter experiences.

I won't be surprised. I know exactly how overpriced that unit is. And a squad of ten retributors is just too inefficient, you're spending 45pts on the privilege of being able to spend 2 cp saving the unit, on the off chance it survives being targeted. For the same amount of points as a 10 girl MM retributor squad you could get an entire guard battalion with the infinite CP cycle, a squad of 3 melta BSS in a repressor/immolator, a jetbike captain, 2 heavy bolter retributor squads and a hospitaller. It might have performed fine in a vacuum, but when you compare it to the things you could be taking instead, it just doesn't stack up.

You say this, but a squad of 10 in cover is fairly durable, and if they are shooting at a squad of ten in cover, they aren't shooting at my Repressors or my Seraphim.

 

In addition, 8 multimelta shots a turn is pretty powerful, and is almost guaranteed to turn 1-2 big things that gets too close to slag.

 

I'd much rather have then than an exorcist or an armiger or even a guard battalion that sits there and dies at the slightest provacation and misses its shots half the time.

 

A squad of ten in cover isn't really that durable, 2+6++ at t3  isn't impressive, especially when you consider that you only really need to kill 6 of them, and actually getting to stay in cover will be rare if you want them shooting the targets they want to shoot when they have such an incredibly short range. It's also 200pts, which means it's worth investing shooting into. And yeah, they'd probably contribute more than the guard battalion would, but is that really worth the minimum 7CP(5 for the battalion, 2 for saving them when they get shot, more if you take the CP cycle trick) you lose doing so?

 

You say that you want them shooting over there instead of at the seraphim, but even a ten girl squad of seraphim is only 146pts, or 2 squads of 5 182 and a repressor full of melta doms is only 247. Stopping your opponent from shooting at seraphim by giving them MM retributors to target is like stopping someone from stealing your watch by giving them your wallet.

 

There's an argument to be had for them now that the better options got nerfed down and in a brigade list I'm beginning to think they might be the best available option to bandage what was lost, but I would still never take ten. 6 or 7 would give you ablative wounds and wouldn't kill itself to morale.

[Beams]

What strategems are you using that you need an additional 7 CP for?

 

I rarely use them for anything but rerolls and the occasional psychic denial and really, people tend to prioritize the stuff that's in their face.

[Aothaine]

What strategems are you using that you need an additional 7 CP for?

 

I rarely use them for anything but rerolls and the occasional psychic denial and really, people tend to prioritize the stuff that's in their face.

 

That will change once we get our codex though. 

 

 

A squad of ten in cover isn't really that durable, 2+6++ at t3  isn't impressive, especially when you consider that you only really need to kill 6 of them, and actually getting to stay in cover will be rare if you want them shooting the targets they want to shoot when they have such an incredibly short range. It's also 200pts, which means it's worth investing shooting into. And yeah, they'd probably contribute more than the guard battalion would, but is that really worth the minimum 7CP(5 for the battalion, 2 for saving them when they get shot, more if you take the CP cycle trick) you lose doing so?

 

 

You say that you want them shooting over there instead of at the seraphim, but even a ten girl squad of seraphim is only 146pts, or 2 squads of 5 182 and a repressor full of melta doms is only 247. Stopping your opponent from shooting at seraphim by giving them MM retributors to target is like stopping someone from stealing your watch by giving them your wallet.

 

There's an argument to be had for them now that the better options got nerfed down and in a brigade list I'm beginning to think they might be the best available option to bandage what was lost, but I would still never take ten. 6 or 7 would give you ablative wounds and wouldn't kill itself to morale.

 

 

This is why you don't mix your army like that. You put everything into repressors. It is expensive but very good. The only thing you miss out on is maybe one turn of AoF. Which is not all that bad. 

 

I'm currently trying to rework my list to have 3 (5-nun) Doms, 3 (5-nun) battle sisters, 3 (5-nun) retributors all in repressors. Yeah. 9 Repressors. They are amazing. I'm thinking about giving the retributors the quad multi-melta load outs and giving all the doms storm bolters then mix it up a bit with the battle sisters with a multi-melta and two storm bolters. Still working everything out. With the increase in battalion cp I don't even really need two detachments anymore which frees up a few more points so I might be able to squeeze in a Callidus Assassin in an aux support detachment.