New Feedback Mail to GW

[Waking Dreamer]

 

Letter is rant. Address them respectfully and with courtesy.

Still convinced there's something going on on the DL. Some sort of weird future change related to plot advancement...

 

 

FWIW I send a letter about my Grey Knights after every game, detailing specific situations where I felt they were outclassed.

 

I try to keep it short, focused, and professional, providing insight without dictating a solution. Even if GW never reads it, I get a sense of relief just writing it.

 

One topic I bring up in every letter is Nemesis Force Weapons and Terminator saves. Given that these weapons provided various bonuses in previous editions, changes to them may be the simplest route to improvements.

That's a lot of effort, but it's exactly what I think our GKs need. Good on you!

 

I'm also actually pleased that one of the rules team, has finally admitted GKs need a thorough review. Top tourney players have been saying it for months now.

[Danarc]

I sent another feedback e-mail to GW, showing the results of a dakkadakkda pool and discussion related to the worst codex army. We win with 64% (on more than 600 votes). Starting from there i asked for the usual stuff, very polite. 

 

Let's see.

[Inquisitor lorr]

The manner in which most people in this thread are feeding back to GW has got to change if you want to see any impact. As a man who spends his every working day crafting persuasive letters and e-mails, trust me, an aggressive, sarcastic, rude, long or condescending e-mail/letter never gets anyone anywhere. It might make you feel better, but that is all it will achieve.

[Ninjoe42]

The manner in which most people in this thread are feeding back to GW has got to change if you want to see any impact. As a man who spends his every working day crafting persuasive letters and e-mails, trust me, an aggressive, sarcastic, rude, long or condescending e-mail/letter never gets anyone anywhere. It might make you feel better, but that is all it will achieve.

Seriously.

[thraxdown]

The manner in which most people in this thread are feeding back to GW has got to change if you want to see any impact. As a man who spends his every working day crafting persuasive letters and e-mails, trust me, an aggressive, sarcastic, rude, long or condescending e-mail/letter never gets anyone anywhere. It might make you feel better, but that is all it will achieve.

Would it help if I told them my grey knights were sold on eBay because I got tired of waiting for decent rules?

[Panzer]

Of course not. It would sound like you're trying to pressure them by making them responsible for your own decision. GW still sees the modeling, painting and collecting as big part of the hobby (which it is) so bad rules are never a valid reason for them to sell your beloved army.

[Danarc]

My last e-mail wasn’t sarcastic. It was really polite. I sent them the image of the pool related to the worst army and the link to the discussion if they were curious about it. I also thanked them for their work.

I wasn’t sarcastic, I would to give them more than a single feedback. If no objection or critic is allowed feedback are useless.

[jeffersonian000]

My letter, while blunt, was still polite and professional. It is important to point out when false statements are made, what the problems are, and what impact of those programs are. They can take the response for what it is, ie, a request to revisit their product line, or they can take it as yet another complaint. But they can’t just ignore it, because it’s on the internet now and can be referenced.

 

SJ

[STTAB]

With AOS 2.0 having persistent spells that they sell you, I'm hoping for an expanded psychic tree and some spell models for GK in the future.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on. 

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed.  At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army.  They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

[Holier Than Thou]

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on. 

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed.  At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army.  They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

Sorry but that doesn't sound true at all.

[Beams]

 

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on.

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed. At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army. They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

Sorry but that doesn't sound true at all.

Grey Knights are amazing in low pt levels. Our psychic is super powerful and there's not much that can stop it, and there aren't too many squads that spread it too thin.

[Panzer]

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on. 

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed.  At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army.  They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

 

Really hard to judge without knowing the lists and missions and even then luck or difference of skill could've made a big difference. However that's one random example of how GK did well among many many more examples of how GK aren't doing well so the numbers still point towards GK not being competetive. ^^

[Holier Than Thou]

Grey Knights are amazing in low pt levels. Our psychic is super powerful and there's not much that can stop it, and there aren't too many squads that spread it too thin.

Erm, no. Grey Knights are a bit better at low points levels, not amazing. And to get a win, sorry two wins, against opponents who he had 2/3rds as many points as? Sorry, I call bull.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on. 

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed.  At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army.  They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

Sorry but that doesn't sound true at all.

 

 

Here are the standings.  Not all players are updated at all intervals.  Matt (#2) has only been updated as of the 750 pt bracket.  My bad, one of his games was only a major victory however.  He also beat me at 1k, the Top Necron player (Shawn) at 1k, and I don't know what his 3rd game was but the escalation league organizer told me he tabled that guy too.

 

So..yeah. It is true. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Grey Knights are amazing in low pt levels. Our psychic is super powerful and there's not much that can stop it, and there aren't too many squads that spread it too thin.

Erm, no. Grey Knights are a bit better at low points levels, not amazing. And to get a win, sorry two wins, against opponents who he had 2/3rds as many points as? Sorry, I call bull.

 

 

It's not bull, and you're calling me a liar.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on. 

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed.  At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army.  They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

 

Really hard to judge without knowing the lists and missions and even then luck or difference of skill could've made a big difference. However that's one random example of how GK did well among many many more examples of how GK aren't doing well so the numbers still point towards GK not being competetive. ^^

 

 

All missions were random Eternal War missions.

My 1k point list was:

Shrike

Jump lt.

5 Scouts

5 Scouts

5 Tacs

2 Company Vets

6 Aggressors, full dakka

10 Hellbasters (rapid fire)

 

That allowed me to put 4 units in Tactical reservers (2 jump HQ's and Aggressors + Hellblasters in SftS).  ((Since the league announcement started only shortly after the big FAQ, we did not use the beta rules for our league)

[Capt. Mytre]

We need know what special rules are in effect, how games are played (ie, missions/board size etc), what each army has, are you playing with beta rules or not etc.

 

The last time a winning GK event was thrown about, the event had strict rules and limitations that prevented a lot of soup, and wasn't particularly competitive in the first place.

[Holier Than Thou]

 

 

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on. 

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed.  At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army.  They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

 

Sorry but that doesn't sound true at all.

 

Here are the standings.  Not all players are updated at all intervals.  Matt (#2) has only been updated as of the 750 pt bracket.  My bad, one of his games was only a major victory however.  He also beat me at 1k, the Top Necron player (Shawn) at 1k, and I don't know what his 3rd game was but the escalation league organizer told me he tabled that guy too.

 

So..yeah. It is true. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Well I'll apologise then. It's still hard to believe considering what's being seen everywhere else in the entire world.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

 

 

Having just finished a 6 week escalation league (play 3 games in 2 weeks at 3 brackets of 500, 750 and 1000 pts), where our Grey Knights player went undefeated, I can't help but think maybe there is some GK groupthink stuff going on. 

 

Our group had a mix of Veteran and Novice players, to be sure, but that that GK player would win 9 of 9 games with crushing victories can't go unnoticed.  At the 750 point bracket, he even played 2 games with 500 pts.

 

I don't play at competitive GT events, but I absolutely cry at the though of facing a buffed GK army.  They don't seem lacking in any way to me.

Sorry but that doesn't sound true at all.

 

Here are the standings.  Not all players are updated at all intervals.  Matt (#2) has only been updated as of the 750 pt bracket.  My bad, one of his games was only a major victory however.  He also beat me at 1k, the Top Necron player (Shawn) at 1k, and I don't know what his 3rd game was but the escalation league organizer told me he tabled that guy too.

 

So..yeah. It is true. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Well I'll apologise then. It's still hard to believe considering what's being seen everywhere else in the entire world.

 

 

Apology humbly accepted. That's very big of you.

 

As for the greater place of GK...I can't speak to that. I can only speak to what I saw/see at my local meta.  We have some very new and inexperienced players, and we also have some very good players.  Matt spanked us all. It's true our league rules did not allow soup. It's also true that no one played any rush/horde style armies like Nids which I think would have given the GK player a run.   If an argument is to be made about GK vs. Soup, I would say the problem is not that GK suck it's that soup IS a problem. 

[Panzer]

Soup is a problem but not THE problem of GK. GK are struggling against mono Codex armies as well.

Anyway, we still don't know how the GK list looked, terrain or the lists of the other players. And I honestly don't want to push to post everything in extreme detail. It's great that he has success in your local meta but objectively seen it's the exception and not proof that GK are competetive.

[Matt_149]

What did he field? 500 PTS would have been interesting :)

[Danarc]

With 500 points for a GK it's impossible to fill a battalion. He could have listed a vanguard for... I don't know. Our less expansive HQ is a brotherhood champion for 115 points. and he can't deep strike and don't give any bubble bonus. about elites... three apothecaries costs 270 without hammer, 309 with hammers. no transports. 

Maybe a spearhead. 3x5 purgators with psilencers are 339 points with a grandmaster is 501. cut one psylencer and you are 499. a very static army without antitank and easy to kill in cac and almost without CP. That's crazy playing in this situation.

 

I really don't know how it is possible, and, please, presents my deepest compliments to your friend, but I agree with sfPanzer. The exception don't prove that GK are competetive.

 

Nevertheless I am very curious to know his lists.

[9x19 Parabellum]

What did he field? 500 PTS would have been interesting

 

I don't know, I wasn't present for those games. I do know that most of the games (includign mine) he heavily leveraged LOS and hung out behind a wall with 10 man strike teams (Psilencer) buffed by astral aim and psybolt ammo.

With 500 points for a GK it's impossible to fill a battalion. He could have listed a vanguard for... I don't know. Our less expansive HQ is a brotherhood champion for 115 points. and he can't deep strike and don't give any bubble bonus. about elites... three apothecaries costs 270 without hammer, 309 with hammers. no transports. 

Maybe a spearhead. 3x5 purgators with psilencers are 339 points with a grandmaster is 501. cut one psylencer and you are 499. a very static army without antitank and easy to kill in cac and almost without CP. That's crazy playing in this situation.

 

I really don't know how it is possible, and, please, presents my deepest compliments to your friend, but I agree with sfPanzer. The exception don't prove that GK are competetive.

 

Nevertheless I am very curious to know his lists.

 

Since it was an escalation league, all games at 500 and 750 points were to be fit into a modified Patrol detachment.  There were no battalions until 1k points. 

[Danarc]

And this is a HUGE change.