How to make GK work with Beta DS rule

[TheCastigator]

I've finally made a post FAQ list I'm happy with, salvaging a lot of the units I already have. No room for GK. I hope GK will be improved soon.

Check you later.

[STTAB]

Thanks. Brain still keeps chewing on this, though.

 

Maybe you guys all knew this or I've missed something but I just realised that if a unit does not move in the movement phase then gates in the psychic phase, it's heavy weapons do not suffer the -1 to hit. I just assumed that gate would come under reinforcements rules like deep striking.

 

So if this is a thing, 3 thoughts on clearing screens;

 

1)GMDK uses heed or sanctuary, gates turn 1 and unloads, hitting on 2s.

 

2) Venerable/doomglaive Dreadnought gates, hits on 2s and uses wisdom of the ancients to give re-roll bubble to shunting interceptors turn 1. Basically a budget GMDK for 1 turn.

 

3) razorback shields interceptors from LOS. Interceptors shunt, someone stays behind to gate rhino. Lands in front of interceptors to block LOS. Interceptors use astral aim to shoot through him. Razorback shoots, hitting on 3s.

[Capt. Mytre]

Thanks. Brain still keeps chewing on this, though.

 

Maybe you guys all knew this or I've missed something but I just realised that if a unit does not move in the movement phase then gates in the psychic phase, it's heavy weapons do not suffer the -1 to hit. I just assumed that gate would come under reinforcements rules like deep striking.

 

So if this is a thing, 3 thoughts on clearing screens;

 

1)GMDK uses heed or sanctuary, gates turn 1 and unloads, hitting on 2s.

 

2) Venerable/doomglaive Dreadnought gates, hits on 2s and uses wisdom of the ancients to give re-roll bubble to shunting interceptors turn 1. Basically a budget GMDK for 1 turn.

 

3) razorback shields interceptors from LOS. Interceptors shunt, someone stays behind to gate rhino. Lands in front of interceptors to block LOS. Interceptors use astral aim to shoot through him. Razorback shoots, hitting on 3s.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but:

 

 

Q: If a unit uses a rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of Infinity psychic power, does that unit count as having moved for the purposes of moving and firing Heavy weapons?

A: Yes. Treat such units as if they are arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

[Danarc]

Next year GTs will be played with 1750 points format. 

...

 

That means less way to play GK?

[Helycon]

Next year GTs will be played with 1750 points format.

...

 

That means less way to play GK?

You mean like all the other armies?

[Danarc]

not like all other armies. All other armies got a discount between index and codex and GK didn't (only army). moreover elite armies are more damaged from this change, and GK, as others, is again in this group. moreover a battalion costs to GK more than almost each other army (with few exceptions like IK) so, this change hit us harder again.

[Helycon]

not like all other armies. All other armies got a discount between index and codex and GK didn't (only army). moreover elite armies are more damaged from this change, and GK, as others, is again in this group. moreover a battalion costs to GK more than almost each other army (with few exceptions like IK) so, this change hit us harder again.

250 points is the exact same for all armies. It's 12,5%. Everyone will be less flexible. Stop feeling so sorry for yourself and play games. I'll have fun with my GK on Monday!

[jeffersonian000]

250 points is an entire brigade in most armies, but just a squad for GK. It’s a bigger hit for GK.

 

SJ

[Beams]

250 points is an entire brigade in most armies, but just a squad for GK. It’s a bigger hit for GK.

 

SJ

Is it though?

 

That's two hqs, and three troops. Even for guard thats 70 for hqs and 120 for troops with absolutely no upgrades.

 

For sisters, which are much cheaper than GK, that's 90 for hqs, and 135 for squads. Again, absolutely no upgrades.

 

For gk, the cheapest you can go is 315 for troops, but each troop has a stormbolter, deepstrikes, and has a power weapon. So, +2 for stormbolter, +4 for falchions (ap-2, D3 damage, 2 attacks) and some thrown in for T4, psychic ability even if just as a backup. And GK are pretty amazing, and are way better than any of those cheap hqs.

 

GKs cheapest brigade is tons better than any other armies cheap brigades. Hence why it's more expensive.

 

And two grandmasters, while as expensive as some armies brigades, can potentially handle those brigades by themselves.

 

I guess my point is you can't compare the cheapest brigades, since they have all their upgrades built in.

[jeffersonian000]

 

250 points is an entire brigade in most armies, but just a squad for GK. It’s a bigger hit for GK.

 

SJ

Is it though?

 

That's two hqs, and three troops. Even for guard thats 70 for hqs and 120 for troops with absolutely no upgrades.

 

For sisters, which are much cheaper than GK, that's 90 for hqs, and 135 for squads. Again, absolutely no upgrades.

 

For gk, the cheapest you can go is 315 for troops, but each troop has a stormbolter, deepstrikes, and has a power weapon. So, +2 for stormbolter, +4 for falchions (ap-2, D3 damage, 2 attacks) and some thrown in for T4, psychic ability even if just as a backup. And GK are pretty amazing, and are way better than any of those cheap hqs.

 

GKs cheapest brigade is tons better than any other armies cheap brigades. Hence why it's more expensive.

 

And two grandmasters, while as expensive as some armies brigades, can potentially handle those brigades by themselves.

 

I guess my point is you can't compare the cheapest brigades, since they have all their upgrades built in.

You have no clue what you are talking about. 250pts is the difference of 3-5 cp. GK cannot afford to lose 3-5 cp. Guard can, Eldar can, even Sisters can. GK cannot.

 

SJ

[Beams]

 

 

250 points is an entire brigade in most armies, but just a squad for GK. It’s a bigger hit for GK.

 

SJ

Is it though?

 

That's two hqs, and three troops. Even for guard thats 70 for hqs and 120 for troops with absolutely no upgrades.

 

For sisters, which are much cheaper than GK, that's 90 for hqs, and 135 for squads. Again, absolutely no upgrades.

 

For gk, the cheapest you can go is 315 for troops, but each troop has a stormbolter, deepstrikes, and has a power weapon. So, +2 for stormbolter, +4 for falchions (ap-2, D3 damage, 2 attacks) and some thrown in for T4, psychic ability even if just as a backup. And GK are pretty amazing, and are way better than any of those cheap hqs.

 

GKs cheapest brigade is tons better than any other armies cheap brigades. Hence why it's more expensive.

 

And two grandmasters, while as expensive as some armies brigades, can potentially handle those brigades by themselves.

 

I guess my point is you can't compare the cheapest brigades, since they have all their upgrades built in.

You have no clue what you are talking about. 250pts is the difference of 3-5 cp. GK cannot afford to lose 3-5 cp. Guard can, Eldar can, even Sisters can. GK cannot.

 

SJ

GK were my first army, and I can guarantee you that I know exactly what I'm talking about. The CP isn't huge. We used to get 3 for having a brigade now we get 5. Sure, other armies have more than us, but that's always been the case. Sorry the sky looks like it's falling to you, but if anything this makes grey knights better, since it limits how much antipsychic others will take..

[Joukernaut]

I've just started painting grey knights and have yet to play my first game, but if I look at math the 250 points drop in the GT will hit other armies harder CP wise.

loosing 250 points can mean loosing an entire brigade worth of command points. for grey knights it means loosing a squad, which will not result in loosing a brigade, but at most loosing a vanguard worth of command points.

I'm not sure if this means we can compete beter, but we will hardly suffer CP wise.

[Corvus Fortis]

I have to agree here, that 250 points less not as bad for us. Other armies can bring less cheap and broken stuff. I find the core of a GK army is 1200-1500 pts - GMNDK, 3x5 strikes (intercepots now?), Draigo, VenDread and such.

 

I believe, the smaller is format the better GK perform. My mate took 4th place on a beginner tournament with pure GK, 750 points. Her list was GKNDK, Librarian and 3x5 strikes. She made two 20-0 games and one 0-20. The fact is not much stuff can kill a 2++ GMNDK. Also, small formats ofter restrict things like named characters, lords of war and other things we don't like. 

[Helycon]

I have to agree here, that 250 points less not as bad for us. Other armies can bring less cheap and broken stuff. I find the core of a GK army is 1200-1500 pts - GMNDK, 3x5 strikes (intercepots now?), Draigo, VenDread and such.

 

I believe, the smaller is format the better GK perform. My mate took 4th place on a beginner tournament with pure GK, 750 points. Her list was GKNDK, Librarian and 3x5 strikes. She made two 20-0 games and one 0-20. The fact is not much stuff can kill a 2++ GMNDK. Also, small formats ofter restrict things like named characters, lords of war and other things we don't like.

Sanctuary and heed is disgusting to play against. My GMNDK just massacred Harlequins in droves, as did the stormbolters. It helps Harlequins are T3 though.

[Ninjoe42]

Sanctuary+Heed on GMNDK is basically our bread and butter, provided they don't tarpit it.

 

I sincerely think a single 2++ gmndk punches leagues above his weight class and is easily the most dangerous thing we can field. Once you have more then 1 on the field though they'll just get shot down.

[Waking Dreamer]

 

I have to agree here, that 250 points less not as bad for us. Other armies can bring less cheap and broken stuff. I find the core of a GK army is 1200-1500 pts - GMNDK, 3x5 strikes (intercepots now?), Draigo, VenDread and such.

 

I believe, the smaller is format the better GK perform. My mate took 4th place on a beginner tournament with pure GK, 750 points. Her list was GKNDK, Librarian and 3x5 strikes. She made two 20-0 games and one 0-20. The fact is not much stuff can kill a 2++ GMNDK. Also, small formats ofter restrict things like named characters, lords of war and other things we don't like.

Sanctuary and heed is disgusting to play against. My GMNDK just massacred Harlequins in droves, as did the stormbolters. It helps Harlequins are T3 though.

 

 

You should have a rematch when the player has the Harlequin codex. My brother has been thinking about them as his second army (depending on the quality of the codex), so I'm also interested on how they fair against out GKs at full power!

[Helycon]

 

 

 

I have to agree here, that 250 points less not as bad for us. Other armies can bring less cheap and broken stuff. I find the core of a GK army is 1200-1500 pts - GMNDK, 3x5 strikes (intercepots now?), Draigo, VenDread and such.

 

I believe, the smaller is format the better GK perform. My mate took 4th place on a beginner tournament with pure GK, 750 points. Her list was GKNDK, Librarian and 3x5 strikes. She made two 20-0 games and one 0-20. The fact is not much stuff can kill a 2++ GMNDK. Also, small formats ofter restrict things like named characters, lords of war and other things we don't like.

Sanctuary and heed is disgusting to play against. My GMNDK just massacred Harlequins in droves, as did the stormbolters. It helps Harlequins are T3 though.

You should have a rematch when the player has the Harlequin codex. My brother has been thinking about them as his second army (depending on the quality of the codex), so I'm also interested on how they fair against out GKs at full power!

She played them as Ynnari, with Yvraine and the Yncarne, so no rising Crescendo. I feel that would also change things quite a bit.

 

I'm eager to see how they hold up as a solo codex though!