jpwyrm Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 So I really want to keep Raptors in the game and be able to stand against the tides of Xenos and Heretics threats out there. Here's a list I came up with in the hope of doing that : +++ Raptor Test (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) +++ ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [47 PL, 615pts] ++ + HQ + Captain [5 PL, 77pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Master-crafted boltgun, The Primarch's Wrath . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, HQ, Imperium, Infantry, Captain Lieutenants [4 PL, 62pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Imperium, Infantry, Lieutenants, HQ . Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter . . Categories: Character + Troops + Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts] . Categories: Imperium, Infantry, Adeptus Astartes, Scout, Scout Squad, Troops . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades . 4x Scout w/Boltgun: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades Scout Squad [6 PL, 57pts] . Categories: Imperium, Infantry, Adeptus Astartes, Scout, Scout Squad, Troops . Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter . 4x Scout w/Boltgun: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades Scout Squad [10 PL, 68pts] . Categories: Imperium, Infantry, Adeptus Astartes, Scout, Scout Squad, Troops . Scout Sergeant: Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter . 5x Scout w/Boltgun: 5x Bolt pistol, 5x Boltgun, 5x Frag & Krak grenades + Heavy Support + Devastator Squad [8 PL, 145pts]: Armorium Cherub . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Devastator Squad, Imperium, Infantry, Heavy Support . Space Marine: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Missile launcher Devastator Squad [8 PL, 151pts]: Armorium Cherub . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Devastator Squad, Imperium, Infantry, Heavy Support . Space Marine: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta ++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [36 PL, 602pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection** . Categories: No Force Org Slot + HQ + Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag grenade, Krak grenade, Malice, Raptorclaw . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Infantry, Chapter Master, Lias Issodon, Raptors, Imperium, HQ + Elites + Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 153pts]: Jump Pack . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Infantry, Imperium, Vanguard Veteran Squad, Elites, Fly, Jump Pack . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Thunder hammer . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Thunder hammer . Veteran Sergeant: Frag & Krak grenades, Storm shield, Thunder hammer + Fast Attack + Inceptor Squad [20 PL, 295pts]: 4x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Fly, Imperium, Inceptor Squad, Infantry, Jump Pack, Mk X Gravis, Primaris, Fast Attack Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 77pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Scout, Scout Bike Squad, Biker, Fast Attack . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Astartes shotgun, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 77pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Scout, Scout Bike Squad, Biker, Fast Attack . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Astartes shotgun, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun ++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [18 PL, 348pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard . Categories: No Force Org Slot + Flyer + Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 174pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Heavy Bolters . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Fly, Imperium, Stormhawk Interceptor, Vehicle, Flyer Stormtalon Gunship [9 PL, 174pts]: Twin assault cannon, Two Heavy Bolters . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Fly, Imperium, Stormhawk Interceptor, Vehicle, Flyer Xiphon Interceptor [11 PL, 240pts]: 2x Twin lascannon, Xiphon missile battery . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Fly, Flyer, Imperium, Vehicle, Xiphon Interceptor, <Chapter> ++ Total: [122 PL, 2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) Now, Lias can no longer form a bomb to alpha strike turn 1, but we can still make good use of SftS. It is riskier, but it can work. What Lias can do though, is cutting the number of drops significantly to help us get that +1 for first turn, and more importantly he gives a mean to protect some important units from shooting alpha strike. So the idea here is to use the flyers for early aggression and to draw fire away from the rest of the army. Meanwhile, I can set up my forces to strike, either through normal drop with the jump units, SftS or Master of Ambush. The Captain and lieutenant act as team and stick with the long range devastators, moving when necessary. The Talons can be setup near them too if I don't want them to move in the first turn. They'll block chargers and deep strikers as well. Obviously, the plasmaceptors and VV are the heavy hitters. They're a glass cannon, but they should erase their target quite efficiently so I need to choose wisely. Of course, landing near Lias or the captain's bubble will probably make or brake that combo. What's your thoughts and advices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I would suggest a Jump Pack captain to support the Plasma-ceptors. I f you plan on using it as a heavy hitter then go all in. Combined with the VV anf Flyer squadron I see some nasty combos there I don't think Lias adds much to this army ... but he's taken a pretty big nerf with the Big FAQ and might need set aside for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I'm still absorbing words on my end. I *must* see the VV with sword and hammer. My imagination is failing me in my older age :P Pics please ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 Thanks for your input guys! @Inquisitor Dracos: I think you might be right about Lias. I made a duplicate of this list using Shrike instead and I believe it's better than with Lias. @Race : if this proves effective, I'll be more than happy to post pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 What’s amusing about that is I’ve seen any number of battle reports or army list designed to use Shrike supporting gun lines, which of course is something Lias would be perfect for lol. Kestrel <Shrike> works best for me because sadly apparently Lias doesn’t play well with Primaris Marines :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I hate using Shrike as a buff-bot. He needs to be shredding things in melee, and that's the only place his mandatory warlord trait is useful. If my army includes Shrike and no one else could outrank him (like an Inquisitor), he is the Warlord. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I hate using Shrike as a buff-bot. He needs to be shredding things in melee, and that's the only place his mandatory warlord trait is useful. If my army includes Shrike and no one else could outrank him (like an Inquisitor), he is the Warlord. Period. I've got Shrike ready to go for the ETL and I'll put him next to 5 VVs with LCs - you know who they are ;)He won't be a buff bot, but he will buff his entourage. His hit re-rolls with the LCs wound re-rolls should be something I enjoy immensely. Thing is, the VVs will always go first because he can give a re-roll their charge and then to his, but he can't buff them if he went first. So his Trait never does me any good... either he's charging a unit that's locked in combat already or his VVs didn't make the charge and I'd be hesitant to send him in alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Making Raptors work shouldn't be that much of a problem, compared to deep striking CC armies. The classical turn 1 Issobomb might have taken a hit, but there are still two ways of making it work without one big blob of sneaky marines: 1. Use Issodon as buff character, and hide units. He can drop on your first turn, use his ability to counter-deploy (and maybe deny a flank that seemed un-denied), and use him to buff a gunline. His range is good enough so he doesn't need to go to sternguard rapid fire range. 2. Use fast units to keep the midfield clear until your second turn, then fortify with the full drop turn 2. Scoutbikers are great at killing scout/chaff/real estate units, and a clear midfield can be filled with 30 tacs/devs/sternguard just to keep it clear and hold objectives. Even tacs can soak up a lot of firepower when in cover and >12", giving you time to score VP and delay the enemy's advance. Did this last tournament, worked very well. The midfield units died eventually at turn 4 or 5, but then it didn't matter anymore because of the collected VPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 @Claws and Effect : I tend to agree, there's no plausible reason why a simple lieutenant would be the Warlord while the Chapter Master is on the field. The interesting thing about Shrike is his versatility since he can be a buff not when it suits your needs, drop with some VV or Inceptors or lead a charge when and where you need him. @MajorNese: I cannot bring myself to leave that much points in reserve for two full turn. I've seen what Astra Militarum or Drukhari will do in two turns of shooting/assaults and there is no way my 31 guys will be enough to tip the balance after that. Dropping turn one in your deployment zone can be a good protective move, depending on the opponent's speed (I'm looking at you Drukhari flying Circus, genestealer cults and Tyranids!) My thoughts while designing this list was to find a way to keep heavy weapons alive long enough to cripple my opponent's ability to remove them while keeping a way to overkill something when I need it. Hellblaster have been great so far, but they can't be held in reserve to wait for their moment to strike. That's why I want to try out the plasmaceptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 @MajorNese: I cannot bring myself to leave that much points in reserve for two full turn. I've seen what Astra Militarum or Drukhari will do in two turns of shooting/assaults and there is no way my 31 guys will be enough to tip the balance after that. Dropping turn one in your deployment zone can be a good protective move, depending on the opponent's speed (I'm looking at you Drukhari flying Circus, genestealer cults and Tyranids!) Sure, against some lists the midfield clearance won't work. But if the list is planned accordingly, both variants are possible - midfield clearance or safe counter deploying. Against DE for example, having one flank empty means they will move full speed to the other. Drop the Issobomb on the empty side, and either the DE split their forces (which limits bubble effects/available CC units), or they will leave one of two firebases in peace. You decide the dropping units during deployment, so there's still time to adapt, especially factoring in SftS flexibility. And yes, plasmaceptors are nice for a spontaneous overkill, but die to overheating even with rerolls. Haven't played against guard with Raptors yet, only Tau. Ork-grade BS across the board is hilarious...they will still kill something, but if the best units are still in reserve, they will waste all their firepower on reasonably cheap power armoured dudes in cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I hate using Shrike as a buff-bot. He needs to be shredding things in melee, and that's the only place his mandatory warlord trait is useful. If my army includes Shrike and no one else could outrank him (like an Inquisitor), he is the Warlord. Period. I've got Shrike ready to go for the ETL and I'll put him next to 5 VVs with LCs - you know who they are ;)He won't be a buff bot, but he will buff his entourage. His hit re-rolls with the LCs wound re-rolls should be something I enjoy immensely. Thing is, the VVs will always go first because he can give a re-roll their charge and then to his, but he can't buff them if he went first. So his Trait never does me any good... either he's charging a unit that's locked in combat already or his VVs didn't make the charge and I'd be hesitant to send him in alone. I use SFTS to place Shrike and his Wing about 18" away from their target. That way they can move 12" and get to a 6" charge roll. Then I send Shrike in first to shut off overwatch. Since his Wing is 6" behind him they still benefit from his reroll on the off chance they fail a 6" charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 I hate using Shrike as a buff-bot. He needs to be shredding things in melee, and that's the only place his mandatory warlord trait is useful. If my army includes Shrike and no one else could outrank him (like an Inquisitor), he is the Warlord. Period. I've got Shrike ready to go for the ETL and I'll put him next to 5 VVs with LCs - you know who they are He won't be a buff bot, but he will buff his entourage. His hit re-rolls with the LCs wound re-rolls should be something I enjoy immensely. Thing is, the VVs will always go first because he can give a re-roll their charge and then to his, but he can't buff them if he went first. So his Trait never does me any good... either he's charging a unit that's locked in combat already or his VVs didn't make the charge and I'd be hesitant to send him in alone. I use SFTS to place Shrike and his Wing about 18" away from their target. That way they can move 12" and get to a 6" charge roll. Then I send Shrike in first to shut off overwatch. Since his Wing is 6" behind him they still benefit from his reroll on the off chance they fail a 6" charge. I do see the genius behind that, but right now, I'm trying to build a force that a) doesn't depend on Deep Striking and (Edit: that is supposed to be a "b" and a ")" ) on Command Points. Why? Because I hope that if I'm geared to fight without these things, then I can kick a lot more behind with them. Idk if that's gonna work, but I'll try. 12" of movement is killer in my meta, really - few, low strength units placed closely together with DS being a very rare thing. So once you get in, you can jump from unit to unit with impunity... To do that from turn one with a good amount of command points left requires a good amount of luck when deploying, but since most of the mentioned few units will be deployed rather close to the front, I can work with that. SftS is, of course, my fall back in case the meta changes. The warlord trait in another thing altogether... I want to give my UM Captain a test drive for maybe even more CP before deciding to use the RG trait to, in my case, essentially help no more than 6 models... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 HMA: I think your attitude is what's missing with a lot of thoughthammer: trying out the idea. I mean, a lot of teeth gnashing has happened with the FAQ, but I do not see a lot of "let me try it out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 I like the input you guys are bringing to this thread. I've been toying with another list idea, this time based around our armored might - something we rarely see in Raptors and other RG lists. Even though I really like flyers, I think this second list is a lot tougher and still makes good use of our CT, stratagem and Lias' Ambush ability when needed. +++ Raptors Armored Force (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) +++ ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [78 PL, 1331pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard . Categories: No Force Org Slot + HQ + Captain [6 PL, 95pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack, Storm bolter, Teeth of Terra . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, HQ, Imperium, Infantry, Captain, Fly, Jump Pack Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag grenade, Krak grenade, Malice, Raptorclaw . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Infantry, Chapter Master, Lias Issodon, Raptors, Imperium, HQ Lieutenants [4 PL, 62pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Imperium, Infantry, Lieutenants, HQ . Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter . . Categories: Character + Troops + Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts] . Categories: Imperium, Infantry, Adeptus Astartes, Scout, Scout Squad, Troops . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Sniper rifle . 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Sniper rifle Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops . 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops . 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter + Elites + Relic Sicaran Battle Tank [14 PL, 165pts]: Heavy bolter, Twin accelerator autocannon . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Elites, Imperium, Relic Sicaran Battle Tank, Relic, Vehicle, Relic Elites, <Chapter> Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Imperium, Vehicle, Venerable Dreadnought, Elites Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Imperium, Vehicle, Venerable Dreadnought, Elites + Fast Attack + Inceptor Squad [20 PL, 295pts]: 4x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Fly, Imperium, Inceptor Squad, Infantry, Jump Pack, Mk X Gravis, Primaris, Fast Attack Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 77pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Scout, Scout Bike Squad, Biker, Fast Attack . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Astartes shotgun, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 77pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Scout, Scout Bike Squad, Biker, Fast Attack . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Astartes shotgun, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun + Heavy Support + Devastator Squad [8 PL, 170pts]: Armorium Cherub . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Devastator Squad, Imperium, Infantry, Heavy Support . Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 309pts]: 2x Heavy flamer, Storm cannon array, Storm cannon array . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Imperium, Relic, Vehicle, Relic Leviathan Dreadnought, Heavy Support, Relic Heavy Support, <Chapter> ++ Total: [118 PL, 2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) For some reason I crammed everything in the same detachment, but I guess I could split Lias and the fast attack choices and add an Outriders detachment for +1 CP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 You know, I'm still not used to flyers. Besides being a semi tread-head myself, I like the list above. Astartes shotguns on bikes :tu: Something Mad Max about that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Something I spit balled together in the Sisters section of the board to try to get the most out of SftS, Vanguard, Concealed Positions, Hand of the Emperor and Master of Ambush to get things into your opponent's face or reposition your deployment for better target selection. Guilliman feels out-of-place, and is only in the list to recycle CPs, give you three more, and to be an 18 power level single drop for determining how much you can hold back from MoA/SftS and improve your odds of getting first turn. Also feel like there are better units I could be using, but I abhor anything and everything Primaris. 132 PL, 2000 points Ultramarines Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachment: [18PL, 400 pts] Lord of War -Roubutte Guilliman [18PL, 400 pts] -Warlord trait: Adept of the Codex Raptors Chapter Battalion detachment: [62PL, 836 pts] HQ -Lias Issodon: [10PL, 195 pts] -Lieutenant: [4PL, 62 pts] * The Primarch's Wrath, storm bolter, chainsword Troops -5 Scouts [6PL, 57 pts) * Storm bolter, chainsword -5 Scouts [6PL, 57 pts) * Storm bolter, chainsword -5 Scouts [6PL, 57 pts) * Storm bolter, chainsword Elites -6 Sternguard Veterans [14PL, 108 pts] * 6 special issue bolt guns, chainsword Heavy Support -5 Devastator Marines [8PL. 147 pts] * Storm bolter, armor cherub, 2 Lascannons, 1 missile launcher, chainsword -5 Devastator Marines [8PL, 153 pts] * Storm bolter, armor cherbu, 3 multi-meltas, chainsword Sisters of Battle Outrider Detachment: [52PL, 764 pts] HQ -Celestine, the Living Saint: [14PL, 250 pts] * 2 Geminae Superia Fast Attack -5 Dominions: [5PL, 60 pts] * 5 Storm bolters, chainsword -5 Dominions: [5PL, 60 pts] * 5 Storm bolters, chainsword -5 Dominions: [5PL, 60 pts] * 5 Storm bolters, chainsword -6 Seraphim: [8PL, 109 pts] * Plasma pistol, 4x Inferno Pistols Heavy Support -6 Retributors aka the Easy-Bake Oven: [10PL, 122 pts] * 4 Heavy flamers, chainsword Dedicated Transport -Immolator: [5PL, 103 pts] * Immolation Flamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 HMA: I think your attitude is what's missing with a lot of thoughthammer: trying out the idea. I mean, a lot of teeth gnashing has happened with the FAQ, but I do not see a lot of "let me try it out". Wise words. But not quite the end of my story. I'm gonna build a Raven Guard Battalion over the course of the ETL (minus 1 HQ because he's painted already), but from there, I've still got 3 other Chapters to go (Edit: well, actually it's 2. My UMs are ready to go bar 2 Company Vets) and they'll probably be Partol Detachments 'til I see which one I want to reinforce. My heavy CC hitters are BT VVs with TH/SS for now (magnetized) while I'm mainly doing Shrike's Wing for fluff reasons - which is immensely satisfactory in its own way - but that may well change based on their performance. So I'm trying to work around some things like CP instead of basing my initial tactic on them and I prioritize some ideas I want to try over others (like the UM Warlord) because I have no idea what my final army will look like and I gotta start somewhere. So I'll not have many CP to work with for some time while running a ragtag force of many different talents. There's a lot of T&E coming my way, but right now, while I'm still building my forces, I need some point to start the T part, and I've chosen what makes most sense to me on paper as that point. Which is essentially what I'd encourage jpwyrm to do as well - take the list as soon as you feel comfortable with it and work from there. And from what I can tell from my limited experience playing SMs, it looks like a solid list right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 Yeah, I really like the esthetic and concept of combat shotguns. If only they would get an extra AP when at half range, they would be so worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 In this case, RoC wins ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 I like the input you guys are bringing to this thread. I've been toying with another list idea, this time based around our armored might - something we rarely see in Raptors and other RG lists. Even though I really like flyers, I think this second list is a lot tougher and still makes good use of our CT, stratagem and Lias' Ambush ability when needed. +++ Raptors Armored Force (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) +++ ++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [78 PL, 1331pts] ++ + No Force Org Slot + **Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard . Categories: No Force Org Slot + HQ + Captain [6 PL, 95pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack, Storm bolter, Teeth of Terra . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, HQ, Imperium, Infantry, Captain, Fly, Jump Pack Lias Issodon [10 PL, 195pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag grenade, Krak grenade, Malice, Raptorclaw . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Infantry, Chapter Master, Lias Issodon, Raptors, Imperium, HQ Lieutenants [4 PL, 62pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Character, Imperium, Infantry, Lieutenants, HQ . Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter . . Categories: Character + Troops + Scout Squad [6 PL, 75pts] . Categories: Imperium, Infantry, Adeptus Astartes, Scout, Scout Squad, Troops . Scout Sergeant: Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades, Sniper rifle . 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Sniper rifle Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops . 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter Tactical Squad [5 PL, 75pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Tactical Squad, Troops . 3x Space Marine: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Boltgun, 3x Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter + Elites + Relic Sicaran Battle Tank [14 PL, 165pts]: Heavy bolter, Twin accelerator autocannon . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Elites, Imperium, Relic Sicaran Battle Tank, Relic, Vehicle, Relic Elites, <Chapter> Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Imperium, Vehicle, Venerable Dreadnought, Elites Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Imperium, Vehicle, Venerable Dreadnought, Elites + Fast Attack + Inceptor Squad [20 PL, 295pts]: 4x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Fly, Imperium, Inceptor Squad, Infantry, Jump Pack, Mk X Gravis, Primaris, Fast Attack Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 77pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Scout, Scout Bike Squad, Biker, Fast Attack . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Astartes shotgun, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun Scout Bike Squad [4 PL, 77pts] . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Imperium, Infantry, Scout, Scout Bike Squad, Biker, Fast Attack . 2x Scout Biker: 2x Astartes shotgun, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Combat knife, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Twin boltgun . Scout Biker Sergeant: Astartes shotgun, Combat knife, Frag & Krak grenades, Storm bolter, Twin boltgun + Heavy Support + Devastator Squad [8 PL, 170pts]: Armorium Cherub . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Devastator Squad, Imperium, Infantry, Heavy Support . Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Missile launcher . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Lascannon Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 309pts]: 2x Heavy flamer, Storm cannon array, Storm cannon array . Categories: Adeptus Astartes, Dreadnought, Imperium, Relic, Vehicle, Relic Leviathan Dreadnought, Heavy Support, Relic Heavy Support, <Chapter> ++ Total: [118 PL, 2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net) For some reason I crammed everything in the same detachment, but I guess I could split Lias and the fast attack choices and add an Outriders detachment for +1 CP. Just a note here: You are very close to a brigade. If you did with a little trimming, you could go from 8 CP to 15 CP. I like your list, it is very similar to one I plan on play-testing this weekend :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 In this case, RoC wins When doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 In this case, RoC wins ^_^ When doesn't it? :huh: In tournaments. Oh, I went there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted April 26, 2018 Author Share Posted April 26, 2018 Taikishi that's a cool list. It's a little light in AT weapons for my taste, but I like the concept. It would be very gratifying to field that against my buddy who consistently destroys me with Sisters... @Itvyper : yeah I thought about the brigade too, but there's just too much stuff to add to make it worthwhile IMO. And since progressive scoring does not come up often in our games (we usually play Eternal War and Chapter Approved missions) I feel like I will get more out of sturdier and deadlier units than with lots and lots of smaller but weaker ones. Please come back with some intel about your game. I can't test my list for at least another week, so it should be interesting to hear from you about what worked and what didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 I keep tweeking my pre-Big FAQ list trying to balance the PL 50/50 so I can still effectively have three points of pressure on the field, two from reserves ... and its a pain. I know I'm handcuffing myself by only allowing Scouts and Vehicles as non-Primaris models but yeesh. If I get this question about Double Battalion HQ correct (I think BattleScribe id being buggy) I'm going that direction and not the Brigade I was planning on. You lose 2CP but gain flexibility in list building (swapping in and out units and I can live with having to have 6 Troop choices. Bumping them up one model each really helps balance the PL for the Tactical Reserves and SftS units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 It's why I hate Power Level. My list above is a minimum of 70 power level deployed on the table since I'll want to try to for a second AoF to use on the Seraphim turn 1. 1% of my points (20) are spent on 9 PL - which is 6.8% of my total power level for the army. That 20 points? A sixth Retributor Sister and a sixth Seraphim. If I place those 20 points in wargear or Space Marine models, my "on the table" PL drops to 61. My current PL of units in tactical reserve? 62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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