Pearson73 Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Now then folks, to me the space marines have always been synomonous with drop pods screaming from the skies into the heart of the enemy; obviously 8th edition has wiped this option from 40K, so I'm shifting to the Heresy. My legion of choice will most likely be the Iron Hands (though my colours look more like the Ultramarines) and I've prepped a 2000pt starter list to aim for. I've very little gaming experience and the list is also heavily influenced by the constraints of my current collection, so I feel it may be rather weak and would really appreciate folks' advice and thoughts here: H.Q: Praetor: Cyber-familiar, iron halo and paragon blade. - 165pts 5-man Command Squad: 3 combat shields, power fist, four power weapons. - 210pts Elites: 10 Gorgons: Cyber-familiar, three chainfists. - 415pts 3 Apothecaries: - 135pts Legion Dreadnought: Multi-melta - 125pts Troops: 10-man Tactical Squad: - 150 10-man Tactical Squad: - 150 6-man Tactical Support Squad: Plasma guns. - 205pts 6-man Tactical Support Squad: Melta guns. - 205pts Dedicated Transports: 5 x Drop Pod: - 175pts 1 x Dreadnought Drop Pods: - 65pts Total: 2000pts Legion - Iron Hands. Rite of War - Orbital Assault. I guess the battle plan would be sending the Gorgons after contested objectives or terminators, whilst the dread and melta-support tackle amour. Plasma squad are there to blast anything whilst the Praetor and retinue are there to chop. Hopefully the -1 strength to enemy shooting and feel no pain saves will give the force a little durability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 You probably want a couple of Thunder Hammers with the Command Squad so that any MC's you are unable to kill round one get to attack before your guys next turn. 10 Gorgons is a lot to concentrate in one area when they have no worthwhile shooting and "only" have a 5++, and are grouped in a way expecting ordnance death. Suggest splitting up, or running them in a Kharybdis. It's worthwhile noting that you lack significant anti-armour availabilities outside of Melta. Depending on the meta, Armoured Ceramite is often something that's taken, and even if it's not run on everything, you often find it on the important ones. Orbital Assault lists often use Primaris-Lightning as their Anti-Armour; they're reasonably cheap, use otherwise unused slots, and if all 3 are taken, provide 12 S8 AP1 Tank Hunting BS5 Armourbane missiles; a single volley of 4 is statistically highly likely to kill a Typhon in a single volley with average rolls. They can also act as anti-air, as a Twin-linked Lascannon is pretty dope for knocking out low armour, low HP flyers, or at least preventing them from flying. You've invested the best part of 600pts in those two support squads, and 3 Lightning-P's cost only a little bit more, and do a lot more. Plasma Squads tend to be reasonably hit or miss - they literally gib one unit, and then die as they get targeted down, or find themselves out of reach of juicy targets; I'm not a fan, personally, but can see their use. Meltagun squads I'm really not a fan of (unless you're Alpha Legion with Tank Hunters with a total +3 to damage rolls thanks to Dynat, and even then, only the one squad). The second issue is the complete lack of AA; a Fire Raptor would be able to utterly chew you apart, by taking down your objectives, and unfortunately, 1 wound Terminators, like Gorgon's don't cut it as , as most people playing the game have learned to be aware of mass 2+ Saves, which is countered by the prevalence of Medusa or Typhon's. Their special rule isn't very good unless they're going up against an enemy melee commander. And as they're only WS4 I3 units, they tend to be a bit lacking, in comparison to more dangerous melee assault units; and even then, for the special rule to trigger, you've got to pass an Invulnerable Save, roll a 4+, and force the opponent to fail a single Initiative 5 test, vs your Initiative 3 with a reroll test (guess which has a higher chance of passing the test). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson73 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Thanks for the detailed response Hesh, looking at the command squad options, thunder hammers only seem to be an option for terminator equipped command retinues, so I've added an extra fist in their to increase damage output. I've thought about the points you've raised and come up with the following revised list: H.Q: Praetor: Cyber-familiar, iron halo and paragon blade - 165 pts 5-man Command Squad: 4 combat shields, two power fists, three power weapons. - 220 pts Elites: 5 Gorgons: Cyber-familiar, one chainfist. - 220pts 1 Apothecary: - 45pts Legion Dreadnought: Multi-melta, chainfist, melta gun. - 150 pts Troops: 10-man Tactical Squad: Nuncio-vox - 160 pts 10-man Tactical Squad: Nuncio-vox - 160 pts Fast Attack: Primaris Lightning: Battle Servitors, ground tracking, 2 pairs of kraken missiles. - 210 pts Primaris Lightning: Battle Servitors, ground tracking, 2 pairs of kraken missiles. - 210 pts 2 x Deathstorm: Krak missiles, drop-pod assault: - 290 pts Dedicated Transports: 3 x Drop Pod: - 105 pts Dreadnought Drop Pod: - 65 pts Total: 2000 Legion - Iron Hands. Rite of War - Orbital Assault. I've added the deathstorms in order to keep a decent number of pods coming in first term, plus they chuck out ten krak missiles a turn each, which seems pretty handy against any target to me. The lightnings should be able to reliably cause some damage when they enter, but I figure they'll quickly get taken care of due to their fragility, so only got four missiles on each. Nuncio-voxes on the tac squads might be handy in keeping a coherent beach-head if I need localised support to drop in and the chainfist upgrade to the dread will also help on the anti-armour side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Hmm, TIL about Thunder Hammers. How utterly ridiculous. You may want to instead slap a Thunder Hammer on your Praetor. You get an additional attack thanks to specialist that way. It does cost another 10pts, however, so that might be an issue. Dropping a Power Sword from the Command Squad might help; it gives you an ablative wound to challenge with if you're up against another Praetor and allows your lad to carve through some other Powerfist armed lads before they strike simultaneously. (I'm assuming you're running Axes as well on your Command Squad?) Gorgons could possibly do with another Chainfist. You could possibly shave some points from the list by not running the Nuncio Vox, as it allows your Tac lads should be keeping themselves quiet and not draw attention while they try and claim squads. The Deathstorms, I'm sorry to say are garbage, until they fix the rules. When they drop in, they change to BS2, and because the rules haven't specified whether the system is 1 complete system, or 5 seperate systems. When they come down, they might have a chance to put out a grand total of 45 Krak Missiles; but at BS2, that's only 15 hits, and statistically, only 3 hits in each direction; that's not even enough to glance a Rhino to death on the rear armour (3+ to glance, 2HP damage). When you get to higher points, they become even more worthless, as Heavy Support options become more useable. Paying 290pts for that, when you can pick up a Fire Raptor, another Lightning-P, or similar for less points is just throwing away money and points, especially when you're on a budget. Alternatively, you could bring down another set of Dreadnoughts. I guess you've already got your Dread fixed up, but it might be worth seeing if you can find variant arms for any tank hunting; dual melee with graviton causes 2 all but guaranteed HP on the first round, then 2 more the next turn, and then there's a dreadnought with like 4+ S10 AP2 at initiate Attacks running around the home lines. I wouldn't worry about bringing down your Tactical Marines soon, so the Drop Pod assault rule doesn't affect it as much. The "golden rule" is to always bring odd numbers, because you bring round up, but when all you're bringing down is a max of 20 Bolter Shots, I reckon that's unnecessary. Also, I think you can see why I like to suggest 2400pts is the sweet spot for building a list to. It gives you a lot more freedom with taking the fun stuff, without the outright ridiculousness of 3K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson73 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Thanks once again for the comprehensive reply, I knew that 30k was suited to bigger games, but I hadn't realised it'd be so hard to squeeze in a 2000pt drop list, I know list building is about making compromises and squeezing everything together, but even still... Pity about the Deathstorms, I hadn't seen the update which introduced their first turn BS2, which will achoeve nothing before they're killed prior to actually being able to do anything. As for the thunder-hammer, I see it listed as 25pts, which I could squeeze in, but I figured giving my apothecary artificer armour and the graviton guns would be a better choice, hopefully a paragon blade, two powerfists will be able to harm most MC I encounter. As for the command squad power weapons, I was thinking swords or axes to get a mix of AP and initiative swings. Revised list: H.Q: Praetor: Cyber-familiar, iron halo and paragon blade. – 165pts 5-man Command Squad: 4 combat shields, two power fist, three power weapons. - 220 pts Elites: 6 Gorgons: Cyber-familiar, two chainfists. - 265 pts 1 Apothecary: Artificer armour. - 55 pts Legion Dreadnought: Additional combat arm, chain fist, two graviton guns. - 165 pts Legion Dreadnought: Additional combat arm, chain fist, two graviton guns. - 165 pts Troops: 10-man Tactical Squad: - 150 pts 10-man Tactical Squad: Nuncio-vox - 160 pts Fast Attack: Primaris Lightning: Battle Servitors, ground tracking, 2 pairs of kraken missiles. - 210 pts Primaris Lightning: Battle Servitors, ground tracking, 2 pairs of kraken missiles. - 210 pts Dedicated Transports: 3 x Drop Pods: 105 pts 2 x Dreadnought Drop Pods: 130 pts Total: 2000 pts Legion - Iron Hands. Rite of War - Orbital Assault. Five pods means both dreads and a tac squad will be in turn one, hopefully cause a bit of damage and with the shrouded rule from the dread-pods and legion trait, survive retaliation. Out of interest, is there any way I could get some reserve roll manipulation, to bring in reinforcements as soon as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimhin Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Hi! I play Orbital Assault with my EC's. I agree 2000 pts is really tight - I'm very happy with my 2500 pt list though. Dreadnought Drop Pods are 100pts. There is no way to increase your Reserve rolls, short of Warlord traits. Which is an issue. How much of this do you own, and how much are you set on (because you like the models, for example)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimhin Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 ++ Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2000pts] ++ + HQ + Praetor, Legion [475pts]: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Cyber-familiar, Digital Lasers, Iron Halo, On Foot, Paragon Blade . Master of the Legion . . Command Squad, Legion: Melta Bombs . . . Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod: Frag Assault Launchers . . . Space Marine Chosen, Legion: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Combat Shield, Power Weapon . . . Space Marine Chosen, Legion: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Combat Shield, Power Weapon . . . Space Marine Chosen, Legion: Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Combat Shield, Power Weapon . . . Standard Bearer, Legion: Bolt Pistol, Combat Shield, Power Fist + Elites + Apothecarion Detachment [65pts] (with Plasma Support Squad) . Apothecary, Legion: Artificer Armour, Power Sword Dreadnought Talon, Legion [275pts] . Dreadnought, Legion: Blessed Autosimulacra, Dreadnought Drop Pod, Legion, Flamestorm Cannon . . Dreadnought Chainfist: Graviton Gun Gorgon Terminator Squad [355pts]: 4x Gorgon Terminator, Heavy Flamer, 2x Chainfist . Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod: Frag Assault Launchers . Gorgon Hammerbearer: Cyber-familiar + Troops + Tactical Squad, Legion [160pts]: Drop Pod, Legion, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion . Standard Wargear: Bolters . Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Bolter Tactical Squad, Legion [160pts]: Drop Pod, Legion, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Legion . Standard Wargear: Bolters Tactical Support Squad, Legion Plasma Gun [280pts]: 6x Space Marines, Legion, Support Squad . Drop Pod, Legion 6x Space Marines, Legion, Support Squad . Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Gun + Fast Attack + Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter [230pts]: Battle Servitor Control, Ground-tracking Auguries, 2x Kraken Penetrator Heavy missile, Twin-linked Lascannon + Allegiance + Legion and Allegiance: X: Iron Hands, Loyalist Rite of War: Orbital Assault ++ Total: [2000pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson73 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 Hey Daimhin, I might expand to 2500pts soon, this is just an initial starting point to get my bearings and a concrete target for collecting and whatnot. I currently have plenty of regular drop pods, around twenty tactical marines, fifteen support marines with a mix of plasma, melta or unarmed and a pair of dreadnoughts with a few loadouts available. Got a fair vew veteran models around and about thirty unbuilt marines, five unbuilt tartaros terminators (not so handy for the Iron tenth...) and eight Indomitus terminators unbuilt and ready to be formed into Gorgons. I'm not looking to spend much more cash at the minute, but with that stockpile and a keen passion for scratch-building, I'm sure most lists at these points levels will be within my reach. My main rule really is that it's a thematic drop assault list, smashing out of orbit, all guns blazing. It's just so iconic to me. With regards to the points costs, I've just had a look at BattleScribe and noticed that there are quite a few points differences, I presume it'll be more accurate than my second hand Legiones Astartes redbook, so I'll switch over to it. The list you've posted looks good and I intend to have a look at your list if it's up on the site? I'm assuming the Anvillus pods are there to shelter the occupants for a turn before they assault out? Would you say one Lightning is sufficient, they seem pretty flimsy to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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