Specifically Speaking of Poxwalkers in a Post FAQ World

[Prot]

At this point I've had quite a few games post FAQ.

 

I know there are ongoing conversations but I am starting to believe the Poxwalker change is the largest one I've had to deal with. The results have been surprisingly negative. I can't gain any momentum with the squad anymore.

 

The funny thing is they actually feel like their threat level had dropped through the floor, even though their baseline hasn't changed. It's almost bizarre.

 

I used to have people quite worried about them and now they ignore them, and don't bother shooting at them until the last second.

 

What I'm finding is:

 

- The Strategems have been cut at the knees as a fallout of this. Dead Walking is nearly useless unless you prepaid for it (who has space for that in a real game?) You -should- just be able to put what you pay for on the table. Otherwise it further encourages your opponent to ignore them, until they can wipe them thus leaving you in a bigger hole if you pre-paid for reserves on a dead unit,

 

- Cloud of Flies. This used to be a go to for that unit. It's now something I cast on them to keep them from dying outright, but the benefit of absorbing units around the poxwalkers is dead.

 

- Since you add in that Typhus is required to keep them operating efficiently, and they need more than 10 models to hit anything... this starts to look pretty bleak.

 

In game they are often wiped in a turn. While those tricks I mention above make it harder to kill them, there's less reason to use these mechanisms I find because you can't 'grow' them efficiently. So you end up using vital resources (Command Points) to protect a squad that's pretty much capped.

 

After my games I am finding the best thing about Poxwalkers is there inability to break from morale. I am starting to think of ditching Typhus as a result (he's good, but not good enough to have simply for overlapping psychic powers and his extreme slow movement.)

 

I don't have any fixes here. I've found this FAQ change to be a MUCH larger blow to the unit than I originally thought. One thought I have is to suggest to GW that they allow a starting strength of 30-40 models so they are sustainable without relying on Walking Dead so much which actually can't be leveraged any more (I actually think the FAQ inadvertently killed Walking Dead.)

 

But enough of me... what about you guys? What have your games told you about your Poxwalkers?

[Clincher37]

I've played two games and tried to use Poxwalkers in both after the FAQ and I'm seeing the same results. They're much easier to just ignore because they really need to start getting above 20 models to become a real threat. This kind of ties into another thread on here about Death Guard troops options, I'm just unimpressed by all of them.

 

Plague Marines cost way too much and aren't at all survivable in my local meta with high volume/high AP shooting that just kills them outright.

 

I only ever used Cultists really to feed my Poxwalkers, now I might use them to stand on an objective but I find they break to morale way too easily for that. 

 

I'm thinking now that maybe Poxwalkers will be good for standing on an objective since they won't break to morale but even then, I could just bring Nurglings instead of that. At least they get a 5++ before the 5+++. 

 

I typically looked to the Daemons codex for my troops choices which while effective, at that point I feel like I'm playing Nurgle Daemons with Death Guard splashed in rather than actually playing Death Guard. 

 

I agree, I think Death Guard got hit very hard by the FAQ and adapting to the changes is proving difficult for me without turning DG into the splash army that I'm using them for now to get the Daemon Prince, Bloat Drones, and PBCs. 

[BlackTriton]

I have come to the same conclusion.

They should require reinforcement point to go over 20, not starting size. Then dead walk again and rhino charge could be interesting strat.

Or, as you said, they need larger sized unit, giving them space to take casualty that they can then replenish.

 

This is a prime exemple of legitimate and constructive feed back that should be sent to GW.

 

In a more constructive manner, you could reserve some point for use of dead walk again early game. if your oponent dosent give you more pox, you summon some daemon. So the points are never truly lost.

Its not what it once was, but the change is still a good one for the game.

[Checkmate77]

As you guys know, I've been a strong supporter of the PMs.  I was therefore hoping for some form of NERF to the Poxwalker Spam that used to be the staple for way too many DG lists.

 

That said, after my initial euphoria I'm not sure GW did the right thing.  The big reason why Poxwalker unit size was only 20 was because of their ability to grow larger under the right circumstances.  By drastically restricting their ability to grow  it negates the need to limit the starting size of Poxwalker units to 20. 

 

I think BT's suggestion is valid; up the Poxwalker's starting size to 30.  Easy fix.  This way the unit becomes more of a threat even without Dead Walk Again strategy. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ive been using typhus as my second hq mainly because I never got around to painting a replacement plaguecaster, so I've only been using poxwalkers to fill in any left over points instead of taking a surgeon or cultists or whatever. Now that they're not a win condition I find I don't mind throwing them somewhere as long as there's an objective. They certainly haven't done great, but some spare s and t 4 bodies that don't take morale isnt terrible either

[Wolf Lord Loki]

In a way I think post faq people need to come at pox walkers with fresh eyes.

 

It seems to me, having listened to a few discussions on how they have been nerfed, that people are trying to use them as they did before the faq. Which probably won't work.

 

What about looking at it as 'hey I have a unit here that does not suffer from moral what can I do with it?'

[Panzer]

Yeah they are much less of a direct threat than they used to be. However they should still be useful as screen or as mindless blob to park on objectives.

[TURBULENCE]

Yeah I never really used poxwalkers the way that got them nerfed. Heck the one and only time I used the dead walk again was just to keep the squad from getting wiped off an objective in a small 500 point game (where they won me the game, but never went over starting strength)

 

As a tough moral immune screen, they still do wonders, and die far slower than my cultists do.

 

So all in all, post FAQ I still use them exactly the same. But my group is far more casual, so we all get to run certain models and concepts that would fall flat in the competitive scene

[Baldhere]

I'm planning to use a 20 man squad as a screen with Necrosius, then let a few units of Nurglings do the objective job.

[SkimaskMohawk]

That's probably not a great investment. Necrosius' aura is junk

[Baldhere]

But he is a decent caster for a fair price.

[Azekai]

Triple deny the witch attempts makes Necrosius worth it. You take other HQ's for their aura buffs.

[Plaguecaster]

At the end of the day there was no reason why a 6pt model should of been so much of a threat as it was due to cheesy shenanigans I am quite glad they were nerfed so you can no longer get free models. I have only ever used them as cheap Cannon fodder to take bullets from other squads or acting a buffers to bog down assaulting squads so my other units can get the charge in as well as taking objectives and holding them for a while due to being immune to morale

[SkimaskMohawk]

No, not that necrosius is bad.

 

His reroll DR aura is terrible though. Take necrosius, just don't take pox without typhus. Take cultists or plaguebearers instead.

 

You can still get free models for poxwalkers there plaguecaster...

[Plaguecaster]

No, not that necrosius is bad.

 

His reroll DR aura is terrible though. Take necrosius, just don't take pox without typhus. Take cultists or plaguebearers instead.

 

You can still get free models for poxwalkers there plaguecaster...

I meant free models that you didn't pay for how people would sacrifice cultists squads to increase pox walkers well over their starting size. With the FAQ at least you have to pay for it like you should

[Wayniac]

I hated Poxfarm and hoped it would die.  It struck me as odd that a DEATH GUARD army tended to have few if any actual Death Guard in it (usually just Typhus or one of the solos).  So I won't shed a tear about Poxwalkers; they should IMHO be used as a chaff/screening unit, not the primary components of an army.  What I am afraid of is death guard, in general, being abandoned now other than as an element of "chaos soup" (which remained untouched) since there does not seem to be any sort of gimmick with them now.

[SkimaskMohawk]

There's still drone, PBC Daemon synergy

[Prot]

I hated Poxfarm and hoped it would die.  It struck me as odd that a DEATH GUARD army tended to have few if any actual Death Guard in it (usually just Typhus or one of the solos).  So I won't shed a tear about Poxwalkers; they should IMHO be used as a chaff/screening unit, not the primary components of an army.  What I am afraid of is death guard, in general, being abandoned now other than as an element of "chaos soup" (which remained untouched) since there does not seem to be any sort of gimmick with them now.

 

Well that's the jam we find we're in now. I never liked playing fistfulls of Poxwalkers. There are threads were people got somewhat heated at me for suggesting there is no real use for Plaguemarines and that Poxwalkers were hands down the better choice. No one actually put anything out there that refutes what I stated.

 

Within weeks of that, it just so happens some guys from GW England take a beatdown from a Pox/Cultist list and a 'delay' was placed on the FAQ. Low and behold the Poxwalkers are neutered. And this is my problem with it.... they needed to adjust them, not snap the idea in half.

 

When GW comes down heavy handed like this to me it begs the question: Why are people using the units like this? Is it because Plaguemarines are so darn good that DG players feel guilty and pull out Poxwalkers? Heck no.... fix some of the crappy stuff out there, and people don't look to exploit the game system you've set up that rewards recycling garbage for 5 turns.....

 

That's where we are at. It's been like this since 8th started. Otherwise explain how a non-codex army just won the Grand Tournament past weekend?

 

Personally I took Poxwalkers in droves so I could take 'fun' toys. My Elite character selections for games looked like something out of a bad horror movie... I used Plague surgeons, Tallyman, etc... stuff you won't see in any tournament, because they are bad, inefficient choices... fun, but bad. Poxwalkers gave me that luxury.

[BlackTriton]

The codex does suffer from being early.

A lot of the rules we have are tame and lack imagination.

Lord of contagion and plague surgeon, to name a few, have no uses at all.

The blight hauler is still easy to build only.

It weird that, of all factions, the spacemarine special rules only apply to infantry

Do you guys remember that a Plague marine was originally priced at 21 point? Or that a lord of contagion costed more than typhus?

We face the default of being tough, and it seem GW dosent know how to price tough.

I look at the nurgle daemon and wonder what death guard would be like if both codex was written at the same time

 

Its not all bad though, we have some of the best looking models in the game, a strong theme and GW has proven willing to make change for the better. And will come the inevitable chaos primaris. Imagine primaris with DR!

[Bulwyf]

I'm glad in the sense that poxwalker armies with a few DG tossed in was the norm. But I agree that nerfing poxwalkers that hard should have come with a buff to PM. For their point cost (and fluff) they should have two wounds and not just one.

[Lord Malnatt Evilborn]

I agree, ok nerfing poxwalker but increase the number to 30 I think was the minimum, now my battalion is from daemons faction

 

Poxbringer

Scrivener

 

30 Plaguebearers

3x3 Nurglings

 

But I want try 3x5 shooty Plague Marines with Rhino in mechanized list (Pallid Hands I look at you  )

[Tokugawa]

If a player want to play Nurgle hreoes (e.g.DPs), and take a Nurgle batallion, what is the best troop slots filler after the FAQ? 3x3 nurglings?

[Tokugawa]

 

The codex does suffer from being early.

A lot of the rules we have are tame and lack imagination.

Lord of contagion and plague surgeon, to name a few, have no uses at all.

The blight hauler is still easy to build only.

It weird that, of all factions, the spacemarine special rules only apply to infantry

Do you guys remember that a Plague marine was originally priced at 21 point? Or that a lord of contagion costed more than typhus?

We face the default of being tough, and it seem GW dosent know how to price tough.

I look at the nurgle daemon and wonder what death guard would be like if both codex was written at the same time

 

Its not all bad though, we have some of the best looking models in the game, a strong theme and GW has proven willing to make change for the better. And will come the inevitable chaos primaris. Imagine primaris with DR!

Iron Hands primaris have a "6+ DR", and aren't seen competitive play. If GW release a "Death Guard primaris" products line with reasonable...10% to 20% points increasement...it still would not be a part of competitive 40K.

 

Almost every power armor infantry unit in every book, faces the same problem: they are not as tough as...themselves in the past 28 years.

 

Once a AP4/AP5 weapon does not alter anything about a 3+ armor save, and totally penentrate a guardsman's 5+ vest. Now comparing to AP0, an AP-1 weapon increase 50% damage output against 3+, and only 25% against 5+. You are tough, they are sharp.

[Panzer]

A 6+++ is significantly worse than a 5+++. Blood Angels Primaris with their 5+++ banner are great!

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

I recenttly played two 1k point games using the older rules for the first game, and the new FAQ on the second. My buddy was testing out his newly acquired (from me) Thousand Sons army. He'd recently added all the Tzaangor hotness to it and was itching for a game. I'll keep it short but game one, I rolled him. All the way over. Onto the floor, even. Game two, nope. I even played the walkers tactically different and focused on a screen with no Ld tests. His Gors took so many out and without reinforcements joining in, he overwhelmed me much faster, and I lost the unit in two turns. With Typhus. 

 

But, hey... I'm glad that I didn't invest in some additional walkers. I love the models and will use them when the situation is right, but for now they've been moved to the side lines. I agree that the 'nerf' was warranted. I also think it was a sharp blow to the unit and correlating stratagem and it should of been more organic in it's approach. And as I have already hinted towards... When life gives you lemons, make them mulch into a bubbling ichor of foul once organic matter. At least that's what I say...

 

End of Line