WarriorFish Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Quite interesting to read what people are generally thinking. Hopefully this can lead to some redress soon :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Was this posted on the Facebook group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Wow that is some shocking data on the "won't ever take" side...... Basic Sorcerers make sense, Ahirman, our Princes, and even Exalted for a measly 17 points more are SO much better. (Oh and termie sorcerers!!! were kinda spoiled for choice on capable HQ options) Defilers? and SPAWN?!?!?! I love both those units and are work horses in a huge amount of my lists. Its true that spawn require a unit of 3-5 to be effective......but its still a unit definitely worth taking. And defilers??? wow! They are a workhorse that can pulp just about anything that isnt a "horde" unit by themselves. I have had mine kill any number of big nasties in melee and scrap tanks upon contact..... Hard to believe! The rest of it basically makes perfect sense, Rubrics are overcosted by 2-3 points depending upon who you ask, and the book (as said earlier) has a missed opportunity with the psychic dread options among other things. A couple of small fixes and I think the 1k sons community will be perfectly happy. (FW get on it...seriously! lazy bums!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skallagoose Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Great idea!!! what we want is really a tough one. I re-did the list like 3 times. Mostly I just went with what is already out there and very easy to do. So FW has dreads and automatons, and Tzaangors already have shields, and we have CCW rubrics in 30k. So that topped my charts just because they are already available to Tsons in lore and in specialty games. I think everyone knows Rubrics are overcosted. WE all love them, and they could be amazing in a fully army, but they are just too costly compared to tzaangors or cultists. I love my 50 rubrics, but they wont see battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I'm shocked by the results. I find myself taking Spawn 9/10 times. At 2000pts, half the time I will have a Supreme Command Detachment of 3 Sorcerers. I'm not surprised the sorcerer is #5, but I am surprised Spawn were on there at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 And defilers??? wow! They are a workhorse that can pulp just about anything that isnt a "horde" unit by themselves. I have had mine kill any number of big nasties in melee and scrap tanks upon contact..... Hard to believe! Now that is shocking for me. Defiler? Really? The general consent is that it's one of the less good units chaos have available. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakybamsen Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I too am a fan of the defiler (like daemon engines quite a bit), love spawn, want terminators to be the best they can (not just for TS) and adore rubrics. I did my part and took the survey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven1 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 ....want terminators to be the best they can (not just for TS) and adore rubrics.... Yes, i think a good simple change might be to add an extra +1d6 when taking a save like terminators had in u think 2nd edition. Terminators with 2d6 pick the highest would be much more survivable and if you gave that to "All is Dust" it would make Rubrics and SOT much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 ....want terminators to be the best they can (not just for TS) and adore rubrics.... Yes, i think a good simple change might be to add an extra +1d6 when taking a save like terminators had in u think 2nd edition. Terminators with 2d6 pick the highest would be much more survivable and if you gave that to "All is Dust" it would make Rubrics and SOT much better. Not gonna happen. Rolling 2d6 for each wound would mean you'd have to roll each wound seperately. Have fun rolling saves after getting shot by something like Aggressors or a bunch of T'au Strike Teams with a nearby Fireblade. GW just recently changed it so FnP like rules don't stack to speed up the game even just a little bit ... a 2d6 change would be the exact opposite of what they're trying to do. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 It's too late now but considering the times I have seen All is Dust come into play against an opponent with ANY sense at all, I am convinced that 2 wounds for Rubric Marines and 3 for Scarab Occult would have been more than an adequate representation. Never been a fan of the improved weaponry that fateful September of 2007 or so. I think the points should be super low and the more wounds would compensate for the lack of damage. Would give more points for support units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 The old "roll 2d6 and pick the best" sounds cool, but as already pointed out, would slow the game way down. I would still like to field more rubrics on the table and would prefer a simple points reduction. But also, as pointed out once again, anybody with a brain has figured out how to easily bypass all is dust. With each codex drop, you can notice a trend of increasing weapons with more than 1 damage. An already elite and expensive unit that an enemy can easily allocate these weapons towards. I would propose a simple fix that increases the chances of using all is dust. Go back to 3rd ed. Where in order to bypass all is dust, you needed to have the strength of the weapon double or more the toughness. These weapons are less abundant compared to damage 1 or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I think rerolling TDA saves and waiving the no two rerolls rule for all is dust would reduce the rolling and would have a similar effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 A re-roll would definitely help and is a LOT more useful than a 5++ on a 2+ model lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 There could be reasons for "No Takers" such as preference why folks voted how they did. Some folks may never take Spawn because they just don't like they way they look. I wont buy a model if I don't like it, A lot of people talk about Obliterators and I can see that they are useful but I just don't like the models and have never fielded them and do not plan to. I personally think the defiler looks silly (don't want to start a debate on this, I realize that anyone could say that about anything in this universe and what I think looks cool others may think is silly, also this is just my aesthetic preference) and do not plan on ever buying one, though I can see it has utility on the battlefield and fans of the unit that will take it. I have thought about running a defiler and I would proxy something my opponent would think is acceptable if I did. Arch I too have long hoped for an extra wound on the All is Dusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kite Senet Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I'm not sure I follow the reasoning behind adding another wound to Rubricae. If the reasoning is that we need more since the All is Dust save bonus is nullified because people are taking multi-damage weaponry, won't they still usually be dying one-shot, one-kill anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skerr Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 perhaps unless they roll 1 for dmg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 And defilers??? wow! They are a workhorse that can pulp just about anything that isnt a "horde" unit by themselves. I have had mine kill any number of big nasties in melee and scrap tanks upon contact..... Hard to believe! Now that is shocking for me. Defiler? Really? The general consent is that it's one of the less good units chaos have available. Well that "consensus" is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY Wrong. Defilers are absolutely incredible in 8th. Reasonable point cost for incredible damage output. And far more survivable then most tanks. Edit: as for Rubrics, it really does feel like they just suffer like many of the marine units suffer in 40k this edition, its more an issue with 8th itself and less to do with Rubrics. I imagine this will be remedied at some point in the next year or so, perhaps with the next FAQ or possibly the big chapter approved at years end. Rubrics need to be 16 + gun cost. I would think 18 PPM would be about perfect for what they bring to the table this edition, perhaps I am wrong but something like that would make them rather strong as a choice while still maintaining the elite roll they should have. I can totally forgive GW for giving us a 10 man reaper squad given that we can fill our slots with Rubrics....if they made them just a hair cheaper....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsernameTaken Posted May 21, 2018 Author Share Posted May 21, 2018 The results are here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ThousandSons/comments/8l2msm/thousand_sons_2018_postbigfaq1_community_survey/?utm_source=reddit-android Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahzek451 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I'm just happy to see that it's pretty universal that folks think rubrics are overcosted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 I've never had great luck with my defiler. Its always had an awkward role because it isn't shooty enough to stand still and be effective, but when you move, the majority of the weapons are heavy on a bs +4 model. I can see a lot of ways to buff the model and get results, but those buffs could be applied to other units. So I can see both sides of the debate, but I lean towards it not be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 The Defiler is the most underrated unit in 8th. It's actually our best shooty support. I'm glad people don't realise it though, because facing 2 Defilers regularly would be a nightmare ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Well maybe that's a TSons thing. However it's not like Defiler are completely untested in general CSM lists and there people don't think that highly about shooty Defilers at all even after testing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeinox Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 The rate at which my two Predator tanks get removed from play doesn't encourage me to take Defilers, it's not the 4+ ws/bs thing at all for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomWolf Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Well, defilers ARE significantly harder to take out than predators, and are not really filling the same role to begin with. Predators are firebases, defilers are bullies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Yeah and they do significantly less damage and one of the things in 40k is that things have enough range that if you go first you can take out what would take out you. So a units durability, especially tanks with anti-tank weaponry, depends partially on its own damage output. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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