Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Telemon Heavy Dreadnought 40k BETA Rules


  • Please log in to reply
74 replies to this topic

#51
Black Orange

Black Orange

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,379 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE

Yeah they are way overpointed and I hope they will address it for the Telemon.



No one can beat my Wu Tang Sword Style!my 40k blog:

https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Ultramarines 247
wc.jpg

Blood and Honor!

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue is a term used by losers


#52
Mr. Funktastic

Mr. Funktastic

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 27 posts

My Telemon hasn't come in from FW yet but looking at everything this is exactly the long ranged fire support Custodes needed. The Arachnus Las-storm is great for anti-horde and against heavy infantry and units with good invulnerable saves while the Iliastus Accelerator Culverins are great for anti-tank and light vehicles (something Custodes has trouble addressing at range). At 310 pts for two Accelerator Culverins and on a 2+/4++/6+++ firing platform with 15 wounds, the Telemon is a great anti-armor option for the points.

 

Only thing I'd want to see changed is points adjustments for the caestus and twin plasma ejectors, they're just way too much for what they are. I'd adjust the points for single/pair of fists to 50/55 pts respectively (dropping 10 pts) and drop the twin plasma ejectors to 40 pts, 20 pts cheaper than before. I'd also give some kind of bonus to taking two fists as there's really no point in taking two aside from a second plasma ejector (even then, I'd rather have a second gun for more useful shooting). Something simple like an extra attack for taking two combined with the proposed points reduction, full melee might not be so bad. Might submit this feedback to FW even though I haven't gotten a game in with it yet since most of these seem like no brainers.



#53
swordofmandulis

swordofmandulis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 221 posts
I think taking 1 fist is totally unviable. Strongest load out looks to be twin culverin, with double fist for fun time lulz.
  • banis likes this

#54
Mr. Funktastic

Mr. Funktastic

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 27 posts

I can see taking one fist to deter chargers and making it useful in melee and then taking either an Arachnus Las-Storm or Accelerator Culverin on the other arm, but at that point I'm deep striking him in my opponent's face to wreck face and shoot up some stuff and just being an all around threat rather than just sitting back and shooting, a completely different strategy. There's never any point to taking two fists, always take one fist and a gun if you need to. Overall though I think taking two ranged weapons is best but I might try out one fist and one gun sometime just for fun.


  • Black Orange likes this

#55
Black Orange

Black Orange

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,379 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE

9" movement I am going to get some melee in there !



No one can beat my Wu Tang Sword Style!my 40k blog:

https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Ultramarines 247
wc.jpg

Blood and Honor!

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue is a term used by losers


#56
TheHarpDaddy

TheHarpDaddy

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts
So while we’re comparing the fists, do we also think that the leviathan combat options are overcosted? Let’s use the general x2str, -3AP and 3 damage option as the comparison - that’s 55pts and only gets a secondary ability when it is paired.

The caestus is 5pts extra, doesn’t need to be taken in a pair to get a bonus secondary AND makes the telemon str18, which wounds everything in the game on a 2+ with rerolls. So if we look at that, it doesn’t really seem overcosted.

Or are we only saying that the fist is overcosted because you need to take a twin plasma ejector?

#57
Hellex_The_Thanatar

Hellex_The_Thanatar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 680 posts

So while we’re comparing the fists, do we also think that the leviathan combat options are overcosted? Let’s use the general x2str, -3AP and 3 damage option as the comparison - that’s 55pts and only gets a secondary ability when it is paired.

The caestus is 5pts extra, doesn’t need to be taken in a pair to get a bonus secondary AND makes the telemon str18, which wounds everything in the game on a 2+ with rerolls. So if we look at that, it doesn’t really seem overcosted.

Or are we only saying that the fist is overcosted because you need to take a twin plasma ejector?


Arguably I feel every dreadnought is over cost on melee. You get a few very powerful attacks, but a fat lot of good if your opponent has pulled off any shenanigans at all with hitting or has good invul.

I get that with deepstrike options dreads can be a terror...but they just aren't when there are so many shenanigans for getting units out of cc or simply tying it up.

The only solution I can think of is for all dread and monster variants to have an "slash" option. Instead of smashing with a few well placed strikes they should blender their way through foes. Maybe represent this by allowing dreads to charge THROUGH UNITS if they have cc?

Now that I think of it, something like sacrifice all cc attacks and do a movement + advance roll, everything hit takes x number of hits at base strength of dread that the dread passes through or ends up within 1" of. (Infantry only)

This would solve: horde lock down, and be a super unique to dread/monster type units to represent them simply wading through chaff.

#58
point_Zer0

point_Zer0

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 82 posts
  • Location:Russia - Moscow
  • Faction: XXth

 A Leviathan is a full 100 points cheaper for -1S, 1MV for each bracket, and -2ld which rarely comes into play. It can also reroll wounds against infantry. If you give it Siege Drills, it goes up in AP and damage, so they'll be at -4AP and 4D for each hit. It goes up by about 10 points, making the difference a staggering 90 points. And yes, a Leviathan comes with 2 heavy flamers. 
 
The points on the melee weapons are massively off.


Add a droppod to leviathan cost and there are your 90 points difference (telemon can deepstrike for 1cp) .
Still no point in double DCCW though. 2d6 autohits aren't worth 120 points.

My XX's legion forum topic and  instagram


#59
swordofmandulis

swordofmandulis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 221 posts

A Leviathan is a full 100 points cheaper for -1S, 1MV for each bracket, and -2ld which rarely comes into play. It can also reroll wounds against infantry. If you give it Siege Drills, it goes up in AP and damage, so they'll be at -4AP and 4D for each hit. It goes up by about 10 points, making the difference a staggering 90 points. And yes, a Leviathan comes with 2 heavy flamers.

The points on the melee weapons are massively off.

Add a droppod to leviathan cost and there are your 90 points difference (telemon can deepstrike for 1cp) .
Still no point in double DCCW though. 2d6 autohits aren't worth 120 points.

It doesn't cost you an additional 120pts because the second fist only costs 5pts plus the cost of the 2nd plasma ejector. Don't get me wrong, I still think the ejectors are too expensive, and I also think 2 fists should give an additional CC attack.

#60
Charlo

Charlo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 18,509 posts

All Dread-fist weapons should count as "Pistol" if it's locked in melee. Just makes sense ;)


  • Hellex_The_Thanatar likes this

#61
Hellex_The_Thanatar

Hellex_The_Thanatar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 680 posts

That would make them weapons insta worth. But doesn't solve dreads that don't have built in weapons problems. Hellbrutes should get some TLC too! 



#62
kombatwombat

kombatwombat

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 122 posts
I’ve had a chance to have a go with the suggestions for the weapons I posted earlier in the thread. What was really helpful was running it alongside a Leviathan (well, a counts-as anyway) with twin Stormcannons.

The Las-Storm seemed better than the Stormcannon at killing medium (MEQ) infantry owing to wounding on 2s hurting more than knocking an extra point of armour off, but the Stormcannon hurt more against Aspect Warriors. The Stormcannon also seemed nastier against tougher infantry and lighter vehicles, but the Las-Storm worked nicely against medium (T7) vehicles. Overall I think the two guns are pretty much a wash, but the Las-Storm’s range gave it a distinct advantage in the first turn - the Levi had to move to get into range, the Telemon didn’t, so it was more accurate. After that first turn neither lacked targets in range while still alive. I think the Las-Storm is in a pretty comfortable spot as I changed it.

The Accelerator Cannon, on the other hand, was a bit much. Flat 3 Damage sounded powerful and yeah it definitely was. I think a drop to D3 damage, minimum 2 is a good compromise that makes it a valid option over the Las-Storm but not an auto-take.

The Spiculus Launcher actually ended up doing less work than the Leviathan’s twin Heavy Flamers, though that was because of a failed charge meaning it got two turns of Overwatching and one round of shooting them into one unit. The Spiculus couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn but that’s hardly typical.

So with a slight amendment this will be my feedback to GW:

Caestus - Str x2 AP-4 Dmg 4 60/65pts (single/pair) Reroll 1s to Wound in combat if armed with a pair
Plasma Injector - Rng 8” Str 7 AP-3 Dmg 1 Heavy 2D6 45pts Hits automatically
Accelerator Cannon - Rng 36” Str 8 AP-3 Dmg D3 Heavy 6 60pts This weapon does a minimum of 2 damage.
Las-Storm - Rng 48” Str 8 AP-1 Dmg 2 Heavy 10 60pts

Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Caestus and Plasma Injectors - 375
Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Accelerator Cannons - 340
Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Las-Storms - 340

For comparison,

Leviathan Seige Drill - Str x2 AP-4 Dmg 4 55/65pts (single/pair)
Stormcannon Array - Rng 24” Str 7 AP-2 Dmg 2 Heavy 10 50pts

Leviathan with two Heavy Flamers, two Meltaguns and two Siege Drills - 308
Leviathan with two Heavy Flamers and twin Stormcannon Array - 309
  • TheFinisher4Ever likes this

#63
Hellex_The_Thanatar

Hellex_The_Thanatar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 680 posts

I’ve had a chance to have a go with the suggestions for the weapons I posted earlier in the thread. What was really helpful was running it alongside a Leviathan (well, a counts-as anyway) with twin Stormcannons.

The Las-Storm seemed better than the Stormcannon at killing medium (MEQ) infantry owing to wounding on 2s hurting more than knocking an extra point of armour off, but the Stormcannon hurt more against Aspect Warriors. The Stormcannon also seemed nastier against tougher infantry and lighter vehicles, but the Las-Storm worked nicely against medium (T7) vehicles. Overall I think the two guns are pretty much a wash, but the Las-Storm’s range gave it a distinct advantage in the first turn - the Levi had to move to get into range, the Telemon didn’t, so it was more accurate. After that first turn neither lacked targets in range while still alive. I think the Las-Storm is in a pretty comfortable spot as I changed it.

The Accelerator Cannon, on the other hand, was a bit much. Flat 3 Damage sounded powerful and yeah it definitely was. I think a drop to D3 damage, minimum 2 is a good compromise that makes it a valid option over the Las-Storm but not an auto-take.

The Spiculus Launcher actually ended up doing less work than the Leviathan’s twin Heavy Flamers, though that was because of a failed charge meaning it got two turns of Overwatching and one round of shooting them into one unit. The Spiculus couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn but that’s hardly typical.

So with a slight amendment this will be my feedback to GW:

Caestus - Str x2 AP-4 Dmg 4 60/65pts (single/pair) Reroll 1s to Wound in combat if armed with a pair
Plasma Injector - Rng 8” Str 7 AP-3 Dmg 1 Heavy 2D6 45pts Hits automatically
Accelerator Cannon - Rng 36” Str 8 AP-3 Dmg D3 Heavy 6 60pts This weapon does a minimum of 2 damage.
Las-Storm - Rng 48” Str 8 AP-1 Dmg 2 Heavy 10 60pts

Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Caestus and Plasma Injectors - 375
Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Accelerator Cannons - 340
Telemon with Spiculus Launcher and twin Las-Storms - 340

For comparison,

Leviathan Seige Drill - Str x2 AP-4 Dmg 4 55/65pts (single/pair)
Stormcannon Array - Rng 24” Str 7 AP-2 Dmg 2 Heavy 10 50pts

Leviathan with two Heavy Flamers, two Meltaguns and two Siege Drills - 308
Leviathan with two Heavy Flamers and twin Stormcannon Array - 309


No changes to number of attacks or abilities? 



#64
kombatwombat

kombatwombat

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 122 posts

No changes to number of attacks or abilities?


Nope, the profile seemed fine balanced against the Leviathan. It was reasonably durable save for when I rolled snake eyes on the invulnerable save against a pair of Brightlances... ouch. The increase to AP-4 Dmg4 on the Caestus is plenty with 4 attacks. I thought about Power of the Machine Spirit, but I don’t think it needs it.

#65
TheFinisher4Ever

TheFinisher4Ever

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 372 posts
  • Location:Orlando, FL
  • Faction: Grey Knights

A Leviathan is a full 100 points cheaper for -1S, 1MV for each bracket, and -2ld which rarely comes into play. It can also reroll wounds against infantry. If you give it Siege Drills, it goes up in AP and damage, so they'll be at -4AP and 4D for each hit. It goes up by about 10 points, making the difference a staggering 90 points. And yes, a Leviathan comes with 2 heavy flamers.

The points on the melee weapons are massively off.

Add a droppod to leviathan cost and there are your 90 points difference (telemon can deepstrike for 1cp) .
Still no point in double DCCW though. 2d6 autohits aren't worth 120 points.
You can't really count the droppod in the cost considering that Deathwatch can drop in Leviathans with CP as well. And their Leviathans are the same price.

Also, I really like kombatwombat's suggestions. I will probably add those to my email as well.

Edited by TheFinisher4Ever, 17 May 2018 - 04:23 PM.

Ad Mech - 5,000 points

Blood Angels - 12,000 points

Dark Angels - 6,500 points

Deathwatch - 3,000 points

Eldar - 18,500 points

Imperial Fists - 5,000 points

Imperial Guard - 1,000 points

Grey Knights - 6,500 points

Sisters of Battle - 4,000 points

 


#66
kombatwombat

kombatwombat

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 122 posts

Also, I really like kombatwombat's suggestions. I will probably add those to my email as well.


Please do!

On that point, if you agree with something anybody says, please don’t just trust that they’ll give that feedback, email GW with the same suggestion. The more consensus they get from fans the more likely the solution you like is to be implemented!

#67
m0nolith

m0nolith

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,635 posts
  • Faction: IXth Legion: The Blood Angels
Now that it’s been in the wild for a little while, how is the Telemon stacking up in 40k?

gallery_48988_10980_21879.png   gallery_86352_14298_17387.jpg gallery_86352_12089_19839.jpg

Instagram gallery_86352_14298_238.jpgm0nolithpainting


#68
TheHarpDaddy

TheHarpDaddy

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 48 posts
I actually love it! The shooting from the spicilus, illiastus and twin plasma is nothing to be sniffed at, and 2’s to hit and wound EVERYTHING in the game is really good. It’s expensive, but arguably more survivable than a knight at 4++ and -1 to hit (generally). Only thing it needs is maybe d6 damage in combat, but flat three is pretty incredible as well. Perhaps d6 minimum 3?

#69
TheFinisher4Ever

TheFinisher4Ever

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 372 posts
  • Location:Orlando, FL
  • Faction: Grey Knights
Finally got around to trying the melee load out for the big boy. This guy is severely over priced for what he can do. The shooting version is not only better, but also between 60-90 points cheaper. If they want to keep the Plasma Ejectors as expensive as they are, they need to be damage 2. Or they need to drop the price on them big time. The fists also need to be damage 4 in combat and probably AP-4 as well.
  • Black Orange and Hellex_The_Thanatar like this

Ad Mech - 5,000 points

Blood Angels - 12,000 points

Dark Angels - 6,500 points

Deathwatch - 3,000 points

Eldar - 18,500 points

Imperial Fists - 5,000 points

Imperial Guard - 1,000 points

Grey Knights - 6,500 points

Sisters of Battle - 4,000 points

 


#70
AnnieGreenGable

AnnieGreenGable

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 224 posts
What do we think of a shooty telemon Vs 2 Armiger Helverin? Roughly the same cost, the Helverin just seem pretty much better... Each one is not as survivable but you get two?

Thoughts?

#71
CaptainMarsh

CaptainMarsh

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 468 posts
  • Faction: Order of the Vigilant Heart

Shooty Telemon is not quite as good as two Helverins. The best Telemon setup IMHO is one Culverin and one Caestus and Ejector. It doesn't shoot exceptionally well even though it shoots fine, and it has a lethal close combat weapon. It suffers from a number of problems that make it less than worth its points almost no matter the setup.


QUOTE (BrotherAtrox @ Oct 5 2008, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Pieces of paper for impassable terrain? My main problem with all of this is it really takes away from the game. A giant sheet of white paper on the table sort of breaks the theme of tiny fake armies running around tiny fake locales.


Real men play Adepta Sororitas!


#72
banis

banis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 191 posts
  • Location:Denmark

What do we think of a shooty telemon Vs 2 Armiger Helverin? Roughly the same cost, the Helverin just seem pretty much better... Each one is not as survivable but you get two?

Thoughts?

 

Depends on what you are shooting at. A twin culverin telemon is better at shooting most tanks because of the better AP. It also gets reroll 1s tohit easier than the helverin while also being 38pts cheaper than 2 helverins. 



#73
Ishagu

Ishagu

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 12,361 posts
  • Location:Britannia, Holy Terra
  • Faction: Ultramarines
Definitely needs to be priced more aggressively.
A Knight Warden with Gatling cannon, missiles, Melta, flamer and Chainsword is only 64 points more
  • Hellex_The_Thanatar likes this

-~Ishagu~-


#74
Black Orange

Black Orange

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 9,379 posts
  • Location:Unto realms immortal...
  • Faction: TODESKOMPANIE

I think it should be around 300 points fully loaded.


  • Hellex_The_Thanatar likes this

No one can beat my Wu Tang Sword Style!my 40k blog:

https://greenblowfly.../alan-seds.html - Terminus Est - Ultramarines 247
wc.jpg

Blood and Honor!

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mary_Sue Mary Sue is a term used by losers


#75
Hellex_The_Thanatar

Hellex_The_Thanatar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 680 posts
I wish i could justify it being full cc even if it was priced correctly. I just can't seem to make dreads work and for those points a squad of allarus does nearly the same thing and more besides wounding vehicles on 2s. They are also harder to bog down.

I really hope dreads get some tlc next big update.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users