Imperial Armor - Talons of the Emperor

[Ichar]

New Imperial Armor book announced at Warhammer fest. Adeptus Custodes, Sisters Of Silence... and Grey Knights! Should be interesting :). I would like to see good things from this as these are three of my favorite armies.

[Capt. Mytre]

I doubt we're getting anything new model wise. I'm hoping for updated rules and correct points, mainly aimed at the Vortimer Razorback/Land Raider getting a point reduction on the TL psycannons or making them Heavy Psycannons (as well as the Flamestorm cannons being buffed to 12" on the LR + having a different stat-line to regular Flamestorm cannons). TL psycannons current cost is insane, 50 points IIRC, for a +8 point +1 str -4 shots TL assault cannon.

 

What unit type does a psycannon kill better than an assault cannon? None. The places it should have an edge over are Toughness 6/7 targets (and Toughness 12 targets, but that's pretty much irrelevant).

 

Vs T7 targets, they are equally effective.

Vs T6 targets, they are less effective.

Vs everything else, they are far less effective.

 

EDIT: Confirmed new rules and data sheets for GK existing models (Vortimer LR/RB/Doomglaive Dreadnought/Thunderhawk):

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-K8mQm66sacE/WvbZQd5Cg2I/AAAAAAAAN3g/6ajkrsgMrMolIFLf5swYAR-AKIRrFFazACHMYCw/s5000/%255BUNSET%255D

 

This again means we are the newest rules release, but with FW. Hopefully due effort is put into it this time.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Capt. Mytre

[Danarc]

This is the image. (EDIT: why did they use a Godhammer LR version?)

 

the "existing range" is formed by Doomglaive dread. Others models are only upgrade sets. 

The interesting thing is "new datasheets" but, this time, I don't have hype. Probably they'll give us back Xyphoon. Good but this does not change our situation.

Let's see. Does someone know the release date?

Edited May 12, 2018 by Danarc

[Capt. Mytre]

the "existing range" is formed by Doomglaive dread. Others models are only upgrade sets.

 

What? That makes zero sense. They sell a complete set for the GK LR Redeemer. The Doomglaive are sold exclusively as an upgrade kit as well. I don't see why they would reduce the range to a single model, when they can make more money by expanding the range with simple upgrades (TL psycannon).

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-DE/Warhammer-40-000?N=610446033+138783297&No=0&Nr=AND(product.locale%3Aen_DE_fw%2Csku.siteId%3ADE_fw)&Nrpp=12&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+%3C%3D+1526139960000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1526139960000]

[Capt. Mytre]

On the official blog, it says:

 

 

...expanded list of units for the Grey Knights...

 

I'd wager we might get access to the Contemptor dreadnoughts, maybe even the leviathan dreads as well. Price will be jacked up though due to them probably being psykers, and still lose the powerful chapter tactics.

[Corvus Fortis]

Adding any SM stuff from their IA index part will improve us. How much? Can't say before we see what they give. This is the first time I regret IA stuff banned from most local tournaments.

[Helycon]

On the official blog, it says:

 

 

...expanded list of units for the Grey Knights...

 

I'd wager we might get access to the Contemptor dreadnoughts, maybe even the leviathan dreads as well. Price will be jacked up though due to them probably being psykers, and still lose the powerful chapter tactics.

Pray tell, why would they lose chapter tactics? If they're psykers, they get Brotherhood of Psykers. I'm not sure why they wouldn't. My Dark Angel Deredeo dread is a dread, so he gets Grim Resolve. Doesn't matter otherwise, as it has the keyword. Same would apply to a current Doomglaive as well, and would apply to any other units in IA that are GK unitsthat have the psyker keyword.

[Capt. Mytre]

 

On the official blog, it says:

 

 

...expanded list of units for the Grey Knights...

 

I'd wager we might get access to the Contemptor dreadnoughts, maybe even the leviathan dreads as well. Price will be jacked up though due to them probably being psykers, and still lose the powerful chapter tactics.

Pray tell, why would they lose chapter tactics? If they're psykers, they get Brotherhood of Psykers. I'm not sure why they wouldn't. My Dark Angel Deredeo dread is a dread, so he gets Grim Resolve. Doesn't matter otherwise, as it has the keyword. Same would apply to a current Doomglaive as well, and would apply to any other units in IA that are GK unitsthat have the psyker keyword.

 

 

Not what I meant. BoP/Grim Resolve aren't Chapter Tactics, Chapter Tactics is exclusive to the SM codex. Sure, we get a special rule for having GK keyword detachment, but that's like saying that Tyranids get Chapter Tactics.

 

What I meant was that Dreadnoughts are points costed based on the unit itself + the army + stratgems + Chapter Tactics, since they are effected by it. We don't have access to easy rerolls for hits or any access to reroll wounds etc. This should be considered if they give us access to Contemptor Dreads, point cost us based on the GK environment, not the SM one.

 

Some Chapter tactics on Contemptor Dreadnoughts are quite potent, such as the Salamander reroll 1 to hit/to wound (great with multimeltas on a +2 WS platform) and -1 to hit Raven Guard etc. BoP is comparatively weak due to the success rate of most powers not increasing that much due to the warp charge cost of our abilities, aside from Vortex of Doom.

 

GW shouldn't just take the SM codex cost, add on 20 points for being a (nerfed) psyker and call it a day, but that's probably what they'll do.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Capt. Mytre

[Soder]

It kind of seems to be worded weirdly specific. “New background and rules for the entire EXISTING range of Forge World’s Grey Knights models”. That’s not a lot.

It would be cool if we could get access to more stuff but I’m skeptical that we’ll get anything new. Hopefully new rules though.

 

I wonder what they change that would be “new”. The heavy psycannon already has GW rules. No way they’d change that. I’m curious to see what this will be.

For now I’ll guess they’ll give the landraider, razorback and doomglaive access to the Gatling Psilencer and heavy incinerator. And maybe make the vehicles psykers.. who knows.. (I don’t mean to say that I think this is a good idea, this is me just trying to be realistic and guessing what they will come up with) ;)

Edited May 13, 2018 by Soder

[Helycon]

 

 

On the official blog, it says:

 

 

...expanded list of units for the Grey Knights...

 

I'd wager we might get access to the Contemptor dreadnoughts, maybe even the leviathan dreads as well. Price will be jacked up though due to them probably being psykers, and still lose the powerful chapter tactics.

Pray tell, why would they lose chapter tactics? If they're psykers, they get Brotherhood of Psykers. I'm not sure why they wouldn't. My Dark Angel Deredeo dread is a dread, so he gets Grim Resolve. Doesn't matter otherwise, as it has the keyword. Same would apply to a current Doomglaive as well, and would apply to any other units in IA that are GK unitsthat have the psyker keyword.

 

 

Not what I meant. BoP/Grim Resolve aren't Chapter Tactics, Chapter Tactics is exclusive to the SM codex. Sure, we get a special rule for having GK keyword detachment, but that's like saying that Tyranids get Chapter Tactics.

 

What I meant was that Dreadnoughts are points costed based on the unit itself + the army + stratgems + Chapter Tactics, since they are effected by it. We don't have access to easy rerolls for hits or any access to reroll wounds etc. This should be considered if they give us access to Contemptor Dreads, point cost us based on the GK environment, not the SM one.

 

Some Chapter tactics on Contemptor Dreadnoughts are quite potent, such as the Salamander reroll 1 to hit/to wound (great with multimeltas on a +2 WS platform) and -1 to hit Raven Guard etc. BoP is comparatively weak due to the success rate of most powers not increasing that much due to the warp charge cost of our abilities, aside from Vortex of Doom.

 

GW shouldn't just take the SM codex cost, add on 20 points for being a (nerfed) psyker and call it a day, but that's probably what they'll do.

 

Every army has 'chapter tactics', just under a different name. Since Tyranids aren't organised in chapters, they get Hive Fleet adaptations. They purpose is the exact same: giving a bonus for having all your units be from the same group. Some of them apply to more unit types, but the overarching concept is the exact same.

 

We'll have to wait and see what FW decides to do when it comes to 'new datasheets'.I hope they go the way you explained and not go absolutely bonkers with extra points, but add in some options as well. They will need to bump up the price for it being a psyker though; it won't be free for adding in a mortal wound at the least. Adding weapon options might be a bit more challenging, since some options simply aren't available (yet), and they tend to have rules for what is and used to be available. Adding weapons to existing units aren't new datasheets by the way. A new datasheet is a new unit available to Grey Knights, even if they exist for Space Marines at this time. 

 

We'll have to wait and see!

[Danarc]

I think that we'll have more data sheet with new units, but no new option on that units. only brotherhood of psyker (if applicable) and metal painting, like storm talon/hawk and chappy.

nevertheless it is better than nothing. 

[Capt. Mytre]

It kind of seems to be worded weirdly specific. “New background and rules for the entire EXISTING range of Forge World’s Grey Knights models”. That’s not a lot.

It would be cool if we could get access to more stuff but I’m skeptical that we’ll get anything new. Hopefully new rules though.

 

I wonder what they change that would be “new”. The heavy psycannon already has GW rules. No way they’d change that. I’m curious to see what this will be.

For now I’ll guess they’ll give the landraider, razorback and doomglaive access to the Gatling Psilencer and heavy incinerator. And maybe make the vehicles psykers.. who knows.. (I don’t mean to say that I think this is a good idea, this is me just trying to be realistic and guessing what they will come up with)

 

They don't need to change any of the rules/statlines for weapons (and they won't anyway), but for the LR and RB, they can just say that the TL Psycannons are now TL Heavy Psycannons, the model would work either way. We won't see the LR/RB or Doomglaive given access any of those special weapons due to the fact that FW is unlikely to make new models just to be able to represent those changes. However, changing the LR Flamestorm Cannons to Heavy Incinerators would be a great idea as it requires no changes to the models they sell and would buff the model.

 

 

They will need to bump up the price for it being a psyker though

 

Over all, they don't, they just need to consider it as part of the greater whole when balancing them. A GK Cont Dread would be weaker compared to a SM Cont Dread just because it costs more already to gain access to reroll hits and no access to reroll wounds, different stratagems and no chapter tactics. The only benefit it has over a SM Cont Dread are psyker powers, mainly AA and Sanc, both of which are once per turn and will probably be used elsewhere, and Smite, which is a single untargetable MW at 12". It would likely only be able to use one of them.

 

 

Every army has 'chapter tactics', just under a different name. Since Tyranids aren't organised in chapters, they get Hive Fleet adaptations. They purpose is the exact same: giving a bonus for having all your units be from the same group. Some of them apply to more unit types, but the overarching concept is the exact same.

 

I know what they are, but that buff is not called "Chapter Tactics". I was specifically talking about Chapter Tactics, and the confusion it causes is why I don't call the buff chapter tactics. It's like calling every anti-light infantry weapon a bolter, just because they have the same purpose. I use Detachment Keyword Special Rules or "Chapter Tactic-esque (or Regiment/Hive etc) buffs" if they don't understand.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Capt. Mytre

[Danarc]

Does anyone know when Talons of the emperor should be released?

[techsoldaten]

Does anyone know when Talons of the emperor should be released?

 

No clue. But (other than Horus Heresy stuff) Forgeworld generally does not preview product more than a quarter ahead of time.

 

So my guess would be in the next 3 months.

[Taliesin]

Apparently supposed to be finished writing by the end of summer.

[Danarc]

Are there any news about the release date? 

[Charlo]

Hopefully we'll see a Psychic Leviathan or the like :D

[Capt. Mytre]

It looks like we might lose the GK Doomglaive (still available via Index however), but we could gain access to various other dreadnoughts. However, I can't see that being all the amazing.

 

We don't have "chapter tactics" (so none of the powerful ones such as Salamanders or Raven Guard etc), no cheap reroll auras, we probs gain Psyker/BoP, which is another price hike and obviously doesn't too mesh well with our overabundance of psykers given how the psychic phase works, and BoP is mathematically only a small increase in chance most of the time.

 

That said, a GK Leviathan dread would probably overshadow our GMNDK. You could teleport it within weapon range of the Grav Flux/Cyclonic Melta etc and charge range, something no other chapter can do, and you can also buff the invuln save to a 3++ (no 2++ due to it not being a character). Still, very expensive.

 

An Astral Aiming/GoI Relic Deredeo would also be a pain in the ass to deal with for most armies, and would actually be a decent weapons platform to take out heavy targets which we so need.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Capt. Mytre

[Danarc]

I don't think that we will get any "relic" dreddy. but I will be happy if we will have some 2x twin LC contemptor mortis.

[Ichar]

Does anyone think there will be any news about Talons of the Emperor at Warhammer Fest this weekend?

[Danarc]

I hope. I really hope. The IA should exit within September right? It could be the right occasion.

[jeffersonian000]

No Chapter Approved so far, no reason to think Talons is on the immediate horizon either. Whatever GW has planned for GK, it’s either no ready or not happening.

 

SJ

[Danarc]

Rumors said that Talons of the Emperor should be released in 3rd quarter of 2018.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Danarc

[Guest MistaGav]

I think the latest rumour was that the book is pretty much written and done. I wouldn't be surprised to hear more details this weekend or at least I'm hoping we hear more information.

[Danarc]

Nothing for us. I'm quite sick of this. :(