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Question on Deep Strike/Gate


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38 replies to this topic

#1
Diagramdude

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Hello,

I am not sure how this interaction works with the new FAQ.

Can you turn 1 deep strike, for example, a GMNDK into your own deployment zone, then Gate it anywhere on the board in the ensuing Psychic phase? The FAQ says you can't warptime a deep striking unit, but Gate is remove and set up again rather than move.

#2
domsto

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i would say no.

The FAQ says you cannot move for any reason.

Yes it's technical not moving, but i would say it was intended you can't move or reposition a unit that Deepstriked.

But if you go only RAW you could argue that you can Gate your Grandmaster after Deepstrikesweat.gif


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#3
Ninjoe42

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They cleared this up I believe. You can both gate and Teleport Shunt on the first turn, ignoring new beta placement rules

#4
Corvus Fortis

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They FAQ'd this to nerf terminators and shining spears DS and charge. So the question is why would you want to deepstrike and gate the first turn. But unitl new clarifications, you need to ask your opponent if it's ok.



#5
Diagramdude

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I understand that it has been cleared up that you can Gate a unit on the first turn without restrictions. But are you allowed to turn 1 Gate a unit that you just deepstriked into your own deployment zone and set it up anywhere on the board?

 

Tactically the reason for this is to protect your deep striking unit from enemy fire if they go first.



#6
Matt_149

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You aren't charging you are using a psychic power. However, they did say that gate and other things similar are to be used on things that start on the board? 🤔

#7
Ninjoe42

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You can gate something that deep strikes into your own deployment zone turn 1
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#8
Diagramdude

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Does anyone know where the official documentation is that says Gate and similar abilities are not restricted by the FAQ? I know it was on GW facebook but is there something more concrete?



#9
Aothaine

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Pretty sure they stated that since the models were on the board at the beginning of the turn they could use gate. But since you are deep striking a unit in I don't think it can gate itself or be gated by another unit.

 

 

https://www.dakkadak...1193.jpg__thumb

 

My apologies it looks like what I remembered was for inteceptors. But! Da Jump! would have the same rules as GoI and it is in that link above.


Edited by Aothaine, 16 May 2018 - 12:35 AM.

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#10
Diagramdude

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Right, given the wording of that linked image I think it's still a grey area. You are allowed to Da Jump a unit that was deployed on the battlefield during deployment...

But in my example situation the GMNDK was NOT on the battlefield during deployment. It deepstriked into it's own deployment zone at the end of the turn 1 movement phase.

However when it is chosen as the target of Gate of Infinity in the ensuing Psychic phase, Gate has been (officially?) ruled to allow you to set up anywhere more than 9".

But the GMNDK has arrived on the battlefield from reserves this turn... so can it be set up outside it's deployment zone during the psychic phase of turn 1?

#11
sfPanzer

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Well the whole point of the deep strike beta rule is to give people a chance to do something about deep striking units before they drop (regardless of whether it's fair treatment against gunline armies our not). Moving your screens or whatever. Stuff like Gate of Infinity is allowed because the unit is still at risk to get shoot off the board before being able to jump across the board.

So with that in mind and the question being in a very dark grey area I'd say you can't do it or at least should expect it to be forbidden once GW learns about it.

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#12
Diagramdude

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Yes that is why I am wondering if there is any official FAQ to the FAQ, or at least some official document that states the rule logic that allows Gate/Da Jump/Wings of Fire to disregard the FAQ restrictions

#13
jeffersonian000

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The logic is that those untold that start on the board are not restricted, while those units that start off the board are. It’s not rocket science.

The thought that you can start off the board, Deep Strike turn 1 into your own DZ, and than Gate in the same turn has merit as the unit in question being Gated was on the board after all, and Gate is one of the exceptions.

SJ
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- Revelations 9:9

#14
Soder

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This definately needs clarification. It’s the same issue with the other FAQ about buffing a unit with an ability and then using a “stratagem” that removes said unit from the battlefield. GW says the unit then loses all buffs that were on it. But guess what? GoI isn’t a stratagem, it’s a psychic power. Then it becomes a RAW vs RAI problem/argument. GW needs to be more specific and precise with their responses..

#15
STTAB

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Rulebook FAQ 16/04/2018;

 

"The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.).

 

Q: Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in and consolidate?

 

A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it can pile in and consolidate.

 

Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?

 

A: No."

 

I would read that GOI is a no go after DS.  Another case of the FAQ needing an FAQ.



#16
Diagramdude

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Yeah the ruling on warptime and metabolic overdrive type mechanics is crystal clear but I can't find anything concrete regarding Gate for my example situation.

I could make a cohesive argument for either way and I don't like that, I like to have absolute concrete evidence that I can lay out in a high pressure tournament situation that convinces an unwilling opponent or mistaken TO that a given action is legal or illegal.

An exact analogue of this situation for Orks would be can you deep strike stormboys T1 into your own DZ then Da Jump them out.

I don't know of any other psychic powers besides Gate and Da Jump that work this way.

#17
Helycon

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GoI isn't movement, it's displacement. This may very well be the difference that makes it OK to use after deepstrike.

#18
STTAB

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Is GOI covered by the reinforcement rule?

Doesn't state that it is.

If that is the case then you can fire heavy weapons without penalty if you did not move in the movement phase.

Good for GMDK.

#19
Diagramdude

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Well the BRB is clear that any unit that "arrives on the battlefield" via deep strike or other "similar abilities" count as having moved "for all rules purposes" so the GMDK suffers the heavy weapon movement penalty. 

But with regards to the FAQ deep strike restriction, based on the official document: "Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements... any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone." 

I think it is very clear that the FAQ restriction is only focused and applied at transition point from Deep Strike Reserve to On The Battlefield.

 

Once you deploy on the battlefield legally into your own deployment zone at the end of the Turn 1 movement phase, I think then in the Psychic phase you can then Gate anywhere outside of 9" of enemy units. Gate is confirmed as unhindered by the FAQ

An argument could be made though that the GMDK is a "unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn" and therefore when Gate manifests and it is removed from the battlefield that it must then "be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone." 

But I don't think so and I really lean towards it being able to Gate anywhere.

 



#20
sfPanzer

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Nah, that really sounds like trying to force something. The intend is clear (no) and raw could go both ways but tends towards no.

Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#21
Muaddib

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Nah, that really sounds like trying to force something. The intend is clear (no) and raw could go both ways but tends towards no.


You guys are weird. You’re forcing something absurd where there is no reason to.
In your movement phase you ds. In your dz if it’s the first turn. Then you’re not allowed to move or advance but you have every right to use psychic power. So you CAST gate and redeploy. I don’t see anything that forbid it.
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#22
jeffersonian000

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Nah, that really sounds like trying to force something. The intend is clear (no) and raw could go both ways but tends towards no.

You guys are weird. You’re forcing something absurd where there is no reason to.
In your movement phase you ds. In your dz if it’s the first turn. Then you’re not allowed to move or advance but you have every right to use psychic power. So you CAST gate and redeploy. I don’t see anything that forbid it.
I concur. The rulings are clear on this, each situation is separate and covered by different rulings.

SJ
“And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.”
- Revelations 9:9

#23
TheGoldenThrone

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Is GOI covered by the reinforcement rule?

Doesn't state that it is.

If that is the case then you can fire heavy weapons without penalty if you did not move in the movement phase.

Good for GMDK.


The Throne abides.


#24
TheGoldenThrone

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Unfortunately, page 6 of the Rulebook FAQ states that units using Teleport Homers or GoI should be treated as arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

The Throne abides.


#25
jeffersonian000

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Unfortunately, page 6 of the Rulebook FAQ states that units using Teleport Homers or GoI should be treated as arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements.

For determining if they moved. It’s right there in the response.

SJ
“And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.”
- Revelations 9:9




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