cover rules for unit partially in cover

[Madmonkeyman]

How does cover work if one model in a unit can see more than 50% of a unit.

 

Ie a unit of reapers shoots at a jet bike squad. the jet bike squad is more than 50% obscured from the point of view of 9 reapers button the 10th.  

Do none of the squad get cover ?

does the reapers that can see have to do his attacks speartly as shooting is meant to be per model ?  cover rules state per unit firing not per model.

 

[Warhead01]

I realize vehicles have slightly different condition for cover than Infantry but I would think the owning player would take their saves one at a time until either the model out of cover died or all the saves were made. In the first case if the model out of cover died then the reset of the unit would have the cover bonus, it works that way for infantry in cover as far as I understand it. I don't know if those jet bikes count as vehicles or not. I can't say I have been in a position where this has come up before, if they are a vehicle unit. 

Hope this was helpful.

[BluejayJunior]

Agreed. The other player could just take their saves one at a time, starting with the model not in cover. When that model dies, the other models would get the cover bonus to their save. 

Also note that I believe that vehicles are only in cover if they are on/in terrain and 50% obscured. Not just 50% obscured. 

[Madmonkeyman]

That’s not quite what I was getting at. So would all the reapers ignore cover if just one of them can see a model that isn’t 50% obscured.

[Eddie Orlock]

Fairly sure previous the respondents have largely accurately stepped us through the procedure. It is all pretty straight forward right up until the unit takes saves, where upon the saving player elects not to use fast dice rolling and rolls and resolves his save and casualty removal sequences one at a time until such time as the model{s} that disqualified his unit from cover is removed as a casualty. At which point all future saves in that set benefit from the cover bonus.

 

This is congruent with the interpretation offered officially in the designers commentary in the top left corner of pg 3.

[TheWolfLord]

Cover is judged for each firing model.

 

Therefore it's possible that a unit can have cover based on the line of sight for some of the firing unit but not others.

 

‘Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model.’

 

Therefore you would need to resolve each shot separately based on the firers line of sight.

 

It is then possible to remove models that may then alter the cover for any future firing models as per the FAQ that Mr Orlock has linked.

[Warhead01]

Cover is judged for each firing model.

 

Therefore it's possible that a unit can have cover based on the line of sight for some of the firing unit but not others.

 

‘Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is obscured from the point of view of the shooting model.’

 

Therefore you would need to resolve each shot separately based on the firers line of sight.

 

It is then possible to remove models that may then alter the cover for any future firing models as per the FAQ that Mr Orlock has linked.

I'm struggling with this due to the language of the rules vs what you are saying about judging cover for each firing model, can you give an example please? 

[Eddie Orlock]

I'm struggling with this due to the language of the rules vs what you are saying about judging cover for each firing model, can you give an example please?

If I were you I'd take a deep breath and relax about this. You pretty much presented it spot on in your first post in the thread. In the core rules, whether something is a vehicle or not is immaterial to whether it gets a cover benefit or not.

 

Now, some vehicles and under some advanced rules some terrain types have clauses that over ride this. For example, a Warhound Titan has a rule that requires 50% obstruction before it can claim cover against a shooter. In this case you would evaluate the titan's cover for each firing model, but this is not the general rules case.

[Warhead01]

 

Now, some vehicles and under some advanced rules some terrain types have clauses that over ride this. For example, a Warhound Titan has a rule that requires 50% obstruction before it can claim cover against a shooter. In this case you would evaluate the titan's cover for each firing model, but this is not the general rules case.

 

That's something I haven't encountered. Thank you.  

[Madmonkeyman]

Thanks - so the one reaper that can see would have to make his roles separate to the ones that can only partially see the jetbike.

[Eddie Orlock]

Thanks - so the one reaper that can see would have to make his roles separate to the ones that can only partially see the jetbike.

No. The reapers would all still shoot together. The one guy that can be seen by that one guy manages to disqualify his unit from cover until that's no longer the case. Usually because his controller elected to remove him as a casualty near the start of his save sequence.

[TheWolfLord]

 

Thanks - so the one reaper that can see would have to make his roles separate to the ones that can only partially see the jetbike.

No. The reapers would all still shoot together. The one guy that can be seen by that one guy manages to disqualify his unit from cover until that's no longer the case. Usually because his controller elected to remove him as a casualty near the start of his save sequence.

That’s not what the rules say though.

 

Cover is judged based on the line of sight of the firing model not the firing unit.

 

Therefore a target unit can gain cover from some firing models but not others depending on line of sight.

 

The FAQ in the Designers Commentary that you refer to doesn’t change the fact that shots are expected to be resolved one at a time.

[Mr. Shine]

Yeah, what Eddie Orlock said would be true for a simple terrain feature based cover with one model not standing on it, as it's only gained if the entire unit is standing on the terrain feature and being obscured is not a factor, but for example for non-INFANTRY models in Woods or the like, it's checked on a per-shooting model basis of the whole unit being at least 50% obscured, from the point of view of said each said shooting model.

[Eddie Orlock]

... Cover is judged based on the line of sight of the firing model not the firing unit. ...

This is probably the third and final time I'll draft a reply to this. My initial response started off with utter confusion about where you got 'firing model' from and a sincere request that you cite the passage from which you drew that conclusion.

 

Next I remembered that most of my recent games have been played with people who have the rules pamphlet and their codex, so much of the 'advanced' stuff from later in the rule book had been 'switched off'. Including advanced determination of cover application. So I rebuilt the case being careful to examine all the sources, including the errata documents. Which is where we actually find this change.

 

So, not that it helps the inquirers much, except to help them propagate a more current version and diagnose the potential confusion of others, but the interpretations I offered above likely were true in the pre-errata environment wherein the rules still made reference to the 'shooting unit'.