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Is it possible to have a separate imperial knights forum?


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62 replies to this topic

#51
Brother Adelard

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What about a trial?

From what I know, moderating on another forum, it's much more work to split a forum than it is to merge one.

It's not a lot of work, in comparison, to create a new empty forum or sub-forum. So why not create a new Knight forum, but not transfer everything over for a trial period. In that period new topics could be created, and individuals could request that particular topics be ported on a request basis. (In that way older threads which are not currently live stay where they are.)

If the traffic is low after a set period, you can shift it all back. If it goes well, you can transfer over other topics later.
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#52
Bryan Blaire

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It really seems like folks need to step back and take a breath.

Y’all are trying to force a lot of importance that maybe isn’t as warranted as you might think, because y’all are very close to the situation. You want to preserve what you see as “your community” when in reality it’s the B&C community as a whole, which is already ordered and sorted a certain way. Even the forum traffic from the outside doesn’t seem near as high as you’re talking about (just looking at the front page of the AdMech forum, there only appears to be one Knights topic longer than 5-7 pages, while other forums have topics with 30+ pages on the front page just in the last year or two of discussion), and someone will really need to produce some hard statistics on this “Knights are the best selling model line right now” idea that’s been floated.

People can see it’s important to you and that you are passionate about it, but y’all need to step back and accept that what you’ve done is ask for special treatment outside what has been done with other groups. Yes, you’ve made arguments, but those arguments must now be weighed by the Admins - and you have to give that time. No, even one year may not have been long enough - it took years before the forum was opened to non-Marines. It took many more years to open the forum up further, and finally after almost 18 years, the forum was opened wide to Xenia and other things.

Take a breath, let your arguments stand as they’ve been written, let the Admins contact you if they need to, and accept that decisions have been made so far. They may not seem fair, but you need to give it time to be reviewed. Going after this over a two day period isn’t going to get you the answers you really want, and has given no time for an actual thorough review.

Remember, I’m saying all of this from the outside, just like y’all are, so I don’t know what internal discussions may be occurring either - but you don’t want to push so hard that it elicits a negative response in the decision makers either.
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#53
Stray

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It really seems like folks need to step back and take a breath.

Y’all are trying to force a lot of importance that maybe isn’t as warranted as you might think, because y’all are very close to the situation. You want to preserve what you see as “your community” when in reality it’s the B&C community as a whole, which is already ordered and sorted a certain way. Even the forum traffic from the outside doesn’t seem near as high as you’re talking about (just looking at the front page of the AdMech forum, there only appears to be one Knights topic longer than 5-7 pages, while other forums have topics with 30+ pages on the front page just in the last year or two of discussion), and someone will really need to produce some hard statistics on this “Knights are the best selling model line right now” idea that’s been floated.

 

It isn't relevant or important to the B&C community as a whole. It's relevant and important to the people directly involved with the sub community under discussion, because it is only them who are effected.

 

As for sales, here are some quotes and info from two minutes of searching:

 

"It is amazing to think Imperial Knights have only been in Warhammer 40k for just over two years. In 2014 Games Workshop had been reeling from poor sales for its games, but the Imperial Knights release started the turn around."

 

"Funnily enough for such an in-universe niche unit, Imperial Knights (officially, Questor Imperialis) are currently among the most popular models from the 40k range, if the top-seller list of Games Workshop is any indication"

 

The best sellers page at GW itself: https://www.games-wo...63923 132992523

 

Note how every miniature featured is either a marine of some form (which we know has always been GW's ace in the hole in terms of popularity) or the current Imperial Knight kit... Nothing else is present.

 

You're completely right though, we do need to be patient. What would help with that would be some greater transparency and communication from and with the administration. A year to make a decision is... crazy, that more time than that might be needed is a patently ridiculous argument. We're talking about an internet forum here, decisions about a nations future are often made in less time.


Edited by Stray, 09 July 2019 - 07:10 PM.


#54
Bryan Blaire

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Guys, if you are really aching for your own community free from the interference of those that run the forum and if it really has nothing to do with the B&C community as a whole, y’all know you could start your own forum or other social media communication for it, right?

Some answers have already been given - that you don’t like them is not an issue here. That you weren’t given the opportunity for input is not an issue here. You’ve asked for a continued review, and from what I’ve seen, that’s been taken under advisement. I hate to say it, but this is the longest length open “forum break-out” request in the seven pages of topics in the Suggestion Box, and the only longer one was the Genestealer Cult request and that was closed at four pages - so to me it seems like you’ve been given quite a bit of space to discuss/suggest/support without the thread being out-right locked, I.e. you’ve already gotten as much or more consideration than a lot of requests here.

And regarding the time scale - while you may think it crazy, there’s already precedent for decisions to be mulled over for years before moving forward with them. I pointed out that it took like a decade to get non-Marine human troops onto the board.
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#55
sfPanzer

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All I can say is that pushing for an answer is more likely to result in a 'no'. So give them the time they feel they need and don't call it crazy or something.


Disclaimer:

If my posts appear rude to you, I apologize. It's not meant to be rude in any way, it's just the way folks are in my country. It's really more about being direct than being rude. I know how it's perceived in the english speaking community and I already try to tone it down but I barely notice when it's too much since it's normal for me.


So yeah, I'm really not rude it's basically just cultural differences that act against me here. Again, I apologize.

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#56
Chaplain Dosjetka

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Passing thought: how about creating, as a first step, an Imperial Knights general discussion thread in the Adeptus Mechanicus subforum and seeing how things go from there?
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#57
Stray

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Passing thought: how about creating, as a first step, an Imperial Knights general discussion thread in the Adeptus Mechanicus subforum and seeing how things go from there?

 

I think that's a great idea. Thank you. Now, can we do that? Will be allowed to discuss Knights as a whole in that thread, or will we be 'modded' for bringing up the words 'Renegade' or 'Chaos'?

 

This is the point. I'll be honest, half the input here 'on behalf' of whoever is making these decisions, has been from ex mods, and other community members. We've heard little to nothing from anyone else, we don't even really know who's attention we're bringing this to.

 

There's a difference between having a say, and an actual dialogue. A dialogue isn't possible without both sides taking part. 

 

So, in the interests of clarity, and knowing you mean well, if you aren't a part of the community being discussed, or someone who's actually involved in the decision making process for the board, OR who has mandate to speak on their behalf, I'd argue you are actually clouding the issue by commenting as though on behalf of the administration.

 

And sorry, but a year is crazy. That isn't an insult, it's not directed as disrespect at anyone. It is however an accurate observation.



#58
Chaplain Dosjetka

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Limited discussion about Renegade and/or Chaos Knights in this thread will most likely be tolerated in a very specific context, where the discussion is centered around Imperial Knights, and other types of Knights or Knight-like units are used in comparison to their Imperial counterparts (for example). Any in-depth conversation about Renegade/Chaos Knights must take place in the Lost and the Damned subforum, for the moment at least, as per Brother Tyler's instructions.
In the meantime, the staff will monitor the situation with regards to traffic generated by Imperial/Renegade/Chaos Knights. As mentioned previously, if there is enough traffic, various options will be considered, discussed, selected implemented, and monitored further still until we reach a solution we're satisfied with.

Edited by Chaplain Dosjetka, 09 July 2019 - 09:42 PM.

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#59
Stray

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Limited discussion about Renegade and/or Chaos Knights in this thread will most likely be tolerated in a very specific context, where the discussion is centered around Imperial Knights, and other types of Knights or Knight-like units are used in comparison to their Imperial counterparts (for example). Any in-depth conversation about Renegade/Chaos Knights must take place in the Lost and the Damned subforum, for the moment at least, as per Brother Tyler's instructions.
In the meantime, the staff will monitor the situation with regards to traffic generated by Imperial/Renegade/Chaos Knights. As mentioned previously, if there is enough traffic, various options will be considered, discussed, selected implemented, and monitored further still until we reach a solution we're satisfied with.

 

Thank you, that is much, much clearer and seems a very reasonable compromise for the time being.

 

We're really not trying to work against anyone here. Just raise awareness of what we have down there, and how important it is to us. If we can help by providing any thing to the decision making process, please do let us know.


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#60
Brother Tyler

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Any Imperial Knights discussion will be moved to the AdMech forum. Any Chaos Knights discussion will be moved to the LatD forum. Any discussion that is common to Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights will most likely be moved to the AdMech forum.

The exception to the above is that discussions relevant to the Forge, Tactica, Homegrown Rules, Battle Reports, and the Liber will be moved to the relevant forum (e.g., a tutorial about magnetizing any kind of Knight model will be moved to the Tutorials forum).

Edited by Brother Tyler, 09 July 2019 - 10:38 PM.

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#61
Ioldanach

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Delayed response since it's been a while since I've been on ... I'm not sure if this issue is closed since I don't see the normal "Decision" thing, so just in case it's still open, I figured I'd offer my two sheckels.

 

I'm a fan of both Imperial and Chaos Knights, but I don't see a need to discuss them in the same forum. The differences between them are sufficient to follow the basic division of the site (between the Imperium and Chaos). I don't have any problem discussing the two factions - and they are distinct factions, make no mistake about that - in separate forums. There's a lot of hyperbole and presumption in the arguments for a single forum; and while a single forum might work, I don't see why it is absolutely necessary to create this lone exception to the overall site framework. The current framework is just fine and doesn't in any way stifle discussion.

 

The tags system might help those that want to get all of their Imperial/Chaos Knights discussion in one place. All it requires is that people take the time to use an appropriate tag (and we would all probably have to use the same tag). Perhaps that is where we ought to focus our efforts: coming up with a tag that might be used to identify topics relevant to both Imperial and Chaos Knights. I suggest Questoris as the tag ("Knight" wouldn't work as that term is used in far too many other factions). If a single tag is used (whether we go with Questoris or we choose something else), all anyone would have to do to find the discussions they want is to click on the tag or use the search engine. As long as people aren't being lazy (i.e., not applying the tag), it should work fine.

 

As far as the other discussion (i.e., the one described in the topic title), I could get behind that. If the Imperial Knights were to get their own forum, though, would the Chaos Knights also get their own forum? I don't know that either is absolutely necessary since neither faction is dominating the forum they're in (yet), but I categorize this in the "nice to have" bin.


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#62
Brother Tyler

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Delayed response since it's been a while since I've been on ... I'm not sure if this issue is closed since I don't see the normal "Decision" thing, so just in case it's still open, I figured I'd offer my two sheckels.


The mods and admins are discussing a number of issues, including the Imperial/Chaos Knights. Once we finalize our decisions, we'll make an announcement. We expect that to be soon.

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#63
Brother Tyler

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=][= DECISION =][=

We are preserving the status quo (for now).

Imperial and Chaos Knights would not be combined into a single forum in any event as that would break the basic structure of the site and the basic groups that Games Workshop has established (Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos). The best way to mark topics that are common to both Imperial and Chaos Knights is to add the Questoris tag*. Anyone wishing to see all such discussions simply has to click on that tag or look for the "Questoris" tag using the search engine; the site will find all topics marked as such for you and return a list to you that you can use in a manner similar to a forum.

We don't see sufficient sustained discussion to warrant either Imperial Knights or Chaos Knights having their own dedicated forums.

We also considered moving Imperial Knights from Adeptus Mechanicus into Agents of the Imperium. There are valid arguments for either option. In the end, we felt that keeping them in Adeptus Mechanicus would more evenly spread discussions across the Adeptus Mechanicus and Agents of the Imperium forum (the Adeptus Custodes make up about half of the discussions on the first two pages of the Agents of the Imperium forum - by separating Adeptus Custodes and Imperial Knights, the two subjects aren't tripping over each other).

We know these aren't the responses some of you were looking for, but we feel that these decisions support the requirements of the community and site as a whole, allowing hobbyists to discuss the full range of issues relevant to Imperial and Chaos Knights. As before, we'll reassess in the future to see if changes are warranted, especially if relevant factors change.



* I've gone with the suggested tag since no one has provided any alternatives.

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