Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Kill Team Compositions/Builds

Kill Team Composition

  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#26
Moostick

Moostick

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 527 posts
  • Location:Canada
I think Zogash and myself have been pretty clear, so not really much else to say. We aren't arguing about how the rules are right now; we clearly said you're right.

To reiterate in another way, if you believe a group of bikers split from a Vet unit being able to vault an up to 13" vertical wall is rules as intended, then there's not much to discuss.

If myself and a few others here got it right away,then I'd assume at least some opponents who witness this will as well. As noted, I wouldn't argue against it; you'd get a shrug, an "ok" and an figurative eyeroll.
  • Black Orange likes this

#27
Xisor

Xisor

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 669 posts
The rules 'discrepancy' (its not really a discrepancy at all, is it) really highlights to me one thing above all else.

The fixation with "mixed squads" in Deathwatch design/raison-d'ĂȘtre is logically incompatible with the central design of 8th Edition.

It's not an irresolvable difference - they've resolved it, albeit (in my esteem) inelegantly. For me, the 'in keeping with 8th design principles' is pretty clear.

That is: the separate/distinct small units should have some useful auras.

E.g.
Bikes: count as rolled-6 when running, if it takes the unit within 6" of the bike(s).
Vanguard: re-roll charges when within 6" of a Vanguard, or charging a unit who is within 1" of a Vanguard.

Etc.

So the teams still form, but the units/models/datasheets are simple.

Add a little army special rule letting each Patrol Detachment with fewer than 10 models 'count as Killteam' for deployment purposes, and bob's your uncle.

------

In terms of *how things actually are* it sounds like the 'one of everyone, but cheap' is a good approach. E.g. 5+Bike+VV+Termi, and similarly for Primaris.

Depending on how you outfit your veterans/Primaris, you can optimise further, especially if you want specific edge cases (a 4 bike/1 vanguard combat squad).

But gaining the rules from minimal additions seems a bit of a no-brainer. Or perhaps not no-brainer, but optimal *and* simple to work with.

Edited by Xisor, 14 June 2018 - 12:45 PM.

  • Fanatic Xenophobe likes this

#28
Vel'Cona

Vel'Cona

    ++ DUCTOR EXSANGUIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 5,422 posts
  • Location:The darkness . . .
  • Faction: Dark Eldar

=][= Civility between Frater will be strictly enforced.  If you have a personal issue with another forum-member, take it to PMs. =][=


Commorites working with Craftworlders is like Autobots working with Decepticons.

ETL_2015_Banner_02_Custos_Fidei_02.jpgETL_2016_Banner_03_Custos_Fidei01.jpggallery_48988_10069_10495.pngETL_Medal_02.gif


#29
MoGuy

MoGuy

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 801 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Faction: Halo Prime

I've upgraded my Stalker Squad to 6x Stalker Vets + Heavy Bolter. I just love these guys. They can reliably strip wounds from vehicles and help cleaning up other stuff.

 

Another Kill Team I am working on:

 

Aquila Kill Team

 

Sarge w/ CS and SB

Blackshield w/ CS and SB

3x Vets w/ CS and SB

Vet w/ SS and SB

Vet w/ CS and Shotgun

Termi w/ SB and PS

 

I'll drop these guys in via Teleportarium. They can put out 28(!) special ammo shots in RFR (+ the Shotgun which is in there just because I have the model left over). They also hit with 22 S4 attacks in melee, 2 of which are at -3 AP. Their volume of shots is great enough to destroy hordes or drown MEQs in saves. They are also surprisingly good in melee against softer targets. If you pop the "Death to the Xenos" stratagem any 6+ to-hit will generate an additional attack. You can lay the hurt on Boyz, Wyches, Genestealers, Harlequin Troupes, other Marines and even Vehicles (if you softened them up with shooting before). 

 

This squad can also take some punishment. The Termi will simply absorb all small arms fire/melee attacks and anything with an AP will get tanked by the Stormshield guy.

 

I would also like to get your oppinons on bikes. I dislike taking 5 of them with 5 Vets and splitting them up because those 5 Vets are too squishy on their own and won't do much work. So instead I would like to run regular bike squads. 

Do you go for MSU of 2x3 bikes or a single bigger squad?


  • Vel'Cona likes this

#30
leth

leth

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 308 posts

One thing someone pointed out, and I had not considered, is that unless your kill team is primarily focused on CC? Dont take a black shield.

 

Because of heroic intervention, if they get within 3 we have to engage.  That means that if an opponent does not want to get overwatched, they can just advance to within 3.  Sure they are not eating the charge, but they dont get shot in the face. I killed 13 plague bearers on overwatch with re-rolls from the watchmaster and wounding on 2s(this was with aggressors, but you get the idea). We then have to fallback and so they get the same end result with many fewer casualties. 


Edited by leth, 14 June 2018 - 04:12 PM.


#31
Lemondish

Lemondish

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 472 posts
Agreed with leth

Without a Vanguard vet in that squad, you'll find the enemy can silence it easily by using the heroic intervention against you.

I'm a fan of the Stormbolter veteran build with a Terminator and a couple storm shields, though. It's been awesome for me, so you have the foundations of a good build.

Edited by Lemondish, 14 June 2018 - 04:37 PM.

  • Mobius0288 likes this

#32
Chris521

Chris521

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 179 posts

That actually brings up something that I've been wondering about.  Although the heroic intervention is required, the rules for heroic intervention say up to 3 inches as long as they move closer to the nearest enemy model.  So cant we just give a very slight nudge towards the enemy and call it a day?



#33
leth

leth

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 308 posts

I suppose so, if they get to exactly 1 outside then it wouldnt work but just getting to within 3 wouldnt trigger it enough to force combat.  So it makes it less of a liability than I thought. 

 

I think Terminators are fantastic alternative to bikes if you are not looking to get T5. Basically its terminators if not bikes. 10 points more per dude but fill the same role slightly better.  I might just do it to avoid the headaches in the first place. 

 

Until we get an FAQ one way or the other I am dropping bikes from my Killteams.  They are way better but its just not worth the headaches and uncertainity at every event/all the dirty looks.

 

Current Veterans kill team Idea is as follows

 

3x Veterans - Storm Bolters, 2x Storm Shields

Black Shield  - Storm Bolter, Thunder Hammer

Watch Sgt - Storm Bolter, Thunder Hammer

Vanguard Vet - Chainsword, Storm Shield

3x Terminator - Storm Bolter and Power Maul(1 Power Ax)

 

283 points, but it is very durable, I can allocate shots/wounds based on what is most efficient for keeping the models alive, can fall back and shoot while still haveing a solid CC threat.   -1 on the axes/str 6 is a sweet spot for taking on things like custodes bikes, bloat drones, wounding T3 on 2s while having str 6 in CC means those T8 vehicles are wounded on 5s and most light vehicles are wounded on 3s/4s. Thunderhammers make it so I am wounding on 2s against T4 and 3s against my problem units.  Helps fill the hole that custodes bikers were filling. 


Edited by leth, 14 June 2018 - 08:01 PM.


#34
vigitant

vigitant

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 60 posts
  • Location:Houston
  • Faction: Deathwatch, Space Wolves

That actually brings up something that I've been wondering about.  Although the heroic intervention is required, the rules for heroic intervention say up to 3 inches as long as they move closer to the nearest enemy model.  So cant we just give a very slight nudge towards the enemy and call it a day?

 You can, but they can always move to "Just past 1 inch" and then youre locked in without getting to overwatch.  Personally I dont think the one extra attack is worth the risk with out shooty teams.



#35
Mobius0288

Mobius0288

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 334 posts

That actually brings up something that I've been wondering about.  Although the heroic intervention is required, the rules for heroic intervention say up to 3 inches as long as they move closer to the nearest enemy model.  So cant we just give a very slight nudge towards the enemy and call it a day?

 

Ya that does bring up a valid point. The rule does say up to 3"... so our units with blackshields would have to move....up to 3".... but it doesn't say you have to enter close combat by being within 1," it just says you have to be closer then you were to the nearest enemy model.

 

Hmm...


Deathwatch | Imperial Fist | Imperial Knights | Skitarii | Inquisition






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Kill, Team, Composition

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users