Chess Clocks in my Local Meta

[TheHarpDaddy]

I’m meeting up this Sunday with some mates to play games in Sydney Australia. Following the 1750pt change from GW, we thought we’d give 2000pts a crack while using chess clocks.

 

We’re running a round robin tournament, trialling the following:

 

- 2 hours, 45 minutes per round.

- Each player gets 1 hour, 22 minutes and 30 seconds on their clock.

- ITC missions AND respective deployments will be predetermined.

- Time starts after deployment zones have been determined, immediately following the role off to determine first placement.

 

We will be sticking to the following time guides:

- Swap Chess timer after each deployment

- Swap Chess timer when you become the active player in the fight phase, i.e. your turn to pick a fighting uni, but do NOT swap chess timer when one player begins overwatch)

 

Not only will it be something new, but we’re actually really excited to add this to our games. We have to think on our feet and really try hard to stick to the times. You will effectively run out of “activations” if your timer stops, and you will allow your opponent to play the rest of their game (except for remaining combat activations etc).

 

We have:

Custodes (me)

Imperial Guard

Necrons

Dark Eldar

 

So quite a bit of variation in terms of model count and archetypes. Should be a lot of fun! I’ll let you guys know how it goes here :)

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Awesome one of our armies big advantages is being able to dedicated more time deciding what to do than it takes to do it as we have so few models to deal with on average.

[kombatwombat]

Good luck to you trying something new.

 

For me though, I’m incredibly disappointed that chess clocks for 40k has come to our shores. I had greatly hoped - particularly with ObSec on our side of the Nullarbor not using them - that our country would stay free of them.

[TheHarpDaddy]

Good luck to you trying something new.

 

For me though, I’m incredibly disappointed that chess clocks for 40k has come to our shores. I had greatly hoped - particularly with ObSec on our side of the Nullarbor not using them - that our country would stay free of them.

Fair enough mate! I personally think that adding different layers to the game is never a bad thing, and I would definitely rather chess clocks than stopping to 1750 at this stage!

[TheHarpDaddy]

I thought the chess clocks were a great addition to our games today to be honest. We didn’t encounter any difficulty at all, save for sometimes having the app we used on our phones crash or pause randomly if we needed to switch to another app/received a call etc.

 

With real chess clocks this wouldn’t be an issue. Honestly added a great element to the game and I strongly recommend everyone on this forum to give them a crack. 2000pts for 2 hours and 45 mins seems to be the money.

[Prot]

You know I just finished playing in a local ITC GT and there's talk of clocks. I dunno how I feel about this anymore. Perhaps 'competitive' 40K is getting a little too crazy for me now. 

 

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the event, and organizers but the game is so complicated I find it very hard to do this without changing so many things about 40K.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it.. I think you picked the right army! lol

[Crabstuffed Mushrooms]

Give it a shot, they're not too bad from my Warmachine days. They encourage people to play more like Bloodbowl than Chess. I always leave them out for friendlies, though. I want my friends to relax and enjoy themselves while we play!

[Captain_Krash]

Games like warmachine it works great because its a very "Rock, paper, scissors" game. 40k has so many issues still that clocks are pretty much bad news...

 

As a guard player I could never play with clocks. Most with hoard armies would agree we would automatically be at a huge disadvantage.

 

Krash

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think they are necessary for large tournies now.

[Lysere]

Games like warmachine it works great because its a very "Rock, paper, scissors" game. 40k has so many issues still that clocks are pretty much bad news...

 

As a guard player I could never play with clocks. Most with hoard armies would agree we would automatically be at a huge disadvantage.

 

Krash

Armies like that are the reason people are looking to chess clocks for competitive because it insures two people have equal time.

[Captain_Krash]

But time isn't nearly a deciding factor of measurement in Warhammer in general. Its not a I go you go style game which is suitable for chess clocks 40k all works in phases and my turn/your turn.

 

Time should not dictate a disadvantage to larger model count armies is all I'm saying. It's not the players fault that he wanted to play nids/orks/guard the armies are designed to have large amounts of expendable troop/model options.

 

But I am interested to read how it worked out.

 

 

Krash

[Lysere]

But time isn't nearly a deciding factor of measurement in Warhammer in general. Its not a I go you go style game which is suitable for chess clocks 40k all works in phases and my turn/your turn.

 

Time should not dictate a disadvantage to larger model count armies is all I'm saying. It's not the players fault that he wanted to play nids/orks/guard the armies are designed to have large amounts of expendable troop/model options.

 

But I am interested to read how it worked out.

 

 

Krash

It is the players choice though and both IG and Nids don't need to run hordes to work well. No idea about orks. The problem in a competitive scene though is you only have so much time to play. No player deserves more time than the other in that setting. If you can't play your army well in that time then play a different army or dont go.

 

That is only really fitting for competitive play (tournaments specifically) though and while I might use a chess clock at some point in the future it'll be more to make sure I'm keeping my gameplay moving and nothing else.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I play in a league - games usually start around 5 PM. Whenever you have to play a :cuss you can be sure you'll be there until 11:30 pm when the shop keeper comes up and sez pack it in.

[Captain_Krash]

An army with 20-30 models vs a army with 100 models are always going to play faster. So at that point your just playing for advantage and using the clock as a "safety excuse"

 

 

And what it ultimately boils down to is at the end of the day Warhammer is a terrible competitive game and is not ment to played as such regardless if people do or not. But this is not a new statement it's always been this way.

 

Krash

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No if it is competitive play there is nothing wrong using a clock and TOs are implementing them now. If it is a friendly who cares. Thank gosh something is finally being done to address slow play.

[Lysere]

An army with 20-30 models vs a army with 100 models are always going to play faster. So at that point your just playing for advantage and using the clock as a "safety excuse"

 

 

And what it ultimately boils down to is at the end of the day Warhammer is a terrible competitive game and is not ment to played as such regardless if people do or not. But this is not a new statement it's always been this way.

 

Krash

The speed of playing an army largely comes down to the person not the list. If someone knows what they're doing, are familiar with their rules, and take steps to make their turn easier they can play a horde army just as fast as someone with 30 models who has done none of these things.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Exactly I know good players that can easily finish a game with IG or Orks in a timely manner.

[Captain_Krash]

And I agree with your assessment on timing if one plays the army he/she will play fast I know I wouldn't/don't have any issue playing a turn in 45 min or less. But I feel like its basically pointless for a small model count army to even use the clock as it will never be a detriment to him. Maybe just make hoard army players use it. Single them out.

 

Krash

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

45 minutes a turn for one player or both ?

[Captain_Krash]

Per turn. Early game takes longer, but as it goes on it gets quicker.

 

Krash

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That is fine. :)

[Prot]

As I previously mentioned I was on the side of chess clocks. At the time my motivation was to stop intentional slow play.

 

After playing in an ITC GT I really am not a fan.

 

I reviewed games where my games could not complete and I asked myself; how much of that was not my fault? Quite a bit. But I’m saying that I had a complicated army that I found myself explaining various mechanisms repeatedly. My army also participated in every phase of the game.

 

I also had game and player turns where ITC mission specific scoring was debated. Were you really in that zone? Let’s measure... Are you sure you killed this vehicle this turn? Or was it last? Why are those guys rerolling 1’s?

 

Then there’s non standard models. I play 100 % WYSIWYG. Some of my opponents did not. I would have to ask what weapons are being carried, etc.

 

Then there’s rules debates... I could go on and on.

 

I also found the losing side was almost 100% sure that they would have won if they could have got one more turn.

 

I had 3 opponents go for a potty break. One got an urgent text. Sure some of these things can be partially mitigated but not near enough. It makes me ask myself where we are going with our ‘game’.

 

I think going this route hurts 40k in general, hurts the hobbiest, the newer player, and promotes simple, monochromatic lists.

 

It will further create a greater need for non-ITC events perhaps even at the same venues! This I think is a good thing though. I wouldn’t be surprised if attendance flipped in favour of non super competitive, chess clock, type of events.

 

But being this is the Agents forum, if I put on my Custodes hat, then sure. No harm done to me in this situation. But you’re going to the bathroom in your turn, and if you ask me any of my rules, I’m chucking my Codex at you. Does that sound fun? I guess maybe it’s not supposed to be anymore.

 

By the way, I went 4-1 and my best game went to full completion against a Tau player with 12 minutes to spare. So I’m trying to be as transparent as possible when I say it disappoints me.

[Crabstuffed Mushrooms]

I think those are valid concerns Prot. In those cases, I would pause the chess clock (at least that's what we did for Warmachine). It's tough because I think Wh40k (or any manual wargame) is always going to be a "gentleman's game": You have to work with your opponent to have a good time, whether it's making sure rules, measurements, dice rolls, etc. are mutually-acceptable to both parties. This requires a certain degree of flexibility when it comes to time!

[Prot]

That's fair. I see it being a different era going forward. Just a part of me is a little saddened by that. :)

[Lysere]

As I previously mentioned I was on the side of chess clocks. At the time my motivation was to stop intentional slow play.

 

After playing in an ITC GT I really am not a fan.

 

I reviewed games where my games could not complete and I asked myself; how much of that was not my fault? Quite a bit. But I’m saying that I had a complicated army that I found myself explaining various mechanisms repeatedly. My army also participated in every phase of the game.

 

I also had game and player turns where ITC mission specific scoring was debated. Were you really in that zone? Let’s measure... Are you sure you killed this vehicle this turn? Or was it last? Why are those guys rerolling 1’s?

 

Then there’s non standard models. I play 100 % WYSIWYG. Some of my opponents did not. I would have to ask what weapons are being carried, etc.

 

Then there’s rules debates... I could go on and on.

 

I also found the losing side was almost 100% sure that they would have won if they could have got one more turn.

 

I had 3 opponents go for a potty break. One got an urgent text. Sure some of these things can be partially mitigated but not near enough. It makes me ask myself where we are going with our ‘game’.

 

I think going this route hurts 40k in general, hurts the hobbiest, the newer player, and promotes simple, monochromatic lists.

 

It will further create a greater need for non-ITC events perhaps even at the same venues! This I think is a good thing though. I wouldn’t be surprised if attendance flipped in favour of non super competitive, chess clock, type of events.

 

But being this is the Agents forum, if I put on my Custodes hat, then sure. No harm done to me in this situation. But you’re going to the bathroom in your turn, and if you ask me any of my rules, I’m chucking my Codex at you. Does that sound fun? I guess maybe it’s not supposed to be anymore.

 

By the way, I went 4-1 and my best game went to full completion against a Tau player with 12 minutes to spare. So I’m trying to be as transparent as possible when I say it disappoints me.

 

This is why Chess clocks should be saved for the competitive scene and more emphasis moved from the main competitive tournaments and more emphasis put on a more relaxed one.

 

As an example the LVO had what, 500 some odd people in the championship? Of that maybe half were actually there with the intent to win it, or actually stood a chance at winning it. They also had a smaller friendly tournament for those who didn't want to deal with that pressure. If you can't handle the pressure of a competitive game there should be an alternative at any decent sized event.

 

Of course another thing that will help is people being familiar enough with their rules that there aren't constant delays with rules, that and people understanding that they need to focus on the game as much as possible.

 

Until slow play and other issues become extremely rare chess clocks are really the only way to enforce time evenly. If you and you're opponent are at a tournament to play a competitive game then you need to understand that you have no right to more than half the time of the game. If you're opponent has time to spare they can do little things to help you out but you can't count on that.

 

At all other times the most I'd use a chess clock for is to time people so they can know how long they really take to do things.