A problem with my Paints: Hydrophobic surfaces

[CMDR_Welles]

Hello all, I hope I can get some answers as I dont know what is going on with a lot of my paints.

 

I've been painting again sporadically for a while now (consistantly since February), and recently I've started having problems. About 3 weeks ago, I started noticing that my paints are acting like the surface I am painting on is now hydrophobic. I've been doing this hobby since 1990, so I am not a stranger to painting. However, this is the first time I've ever had this happen. The miniatures were washed with soap and water, then with rubbing alcohol and rinsed again with water. Once dried, they were airbrush primed with Vallejo Surface Primer (Ghost Grey). I've already painted several minis without any problems, and with these same paints. Nothing has changed between then and now. I'm having the problem with both my Army Painter, Citadel, and P3 paints, and its especially problematic with the Shades (Citadel) and Tones (Army Painter). Its not limited to the surfaces either, it happens when painting over another color, or a metallic, or just over the primer layer. All of the paints are acting like the surfaces are hydrophobic, and I spend more time chasing the spots of paint trying to get them all to just spread.

 

Now, since this started, I it might be that the paints were too thin as I use a wet palette now; but I've even tried straight from the bottle and thinning with water directly or even just straight unthinned. I thought maybe its our water, so I tried distilled, bottled water, and even airbrush thinner. The problem still persists.

 

Since I dont thin the Shades or Tones, those were not experimented with.

 

I've tried unsuccessfully to capture this on camera, so I cant show you want I mean.

 

I've also cleaned all my brushes multiple times with Masters brush soap and I rinse them very thoroughly under running water. That doesnt seem to make a difference either. I've even tried using a brush that's never been cleaned (let alone used before), and that didnt help either.

 

I hope someone can help, as I am getting rather frustrated..

[Father Mehman]

It may be worth buying a few new paints and testing them out. It sounds like - and I'm sure this isn't what's happening - your paints died. That or maybe it's the humidity in your area. We're having some strange weather where I'm at right now, but who knows if that's what's causing it?

 

This is a puzzler...

[CMDR_Welles]

It may be worth buying a few new paints and testing them out. It sounds like - and I'm sure this isn't what's happening - your paints died. That or maybe it's the humidity in your area. We're having some strange weather where I'm at right now, but who knows if that's what's causing it?

 

This is a puzzler...

Being unemployed and disabled without SSI benefits, I'm unable to buy new paints at this time. My P3 paints are at least 10 years old, and my Army Painter is probably 4-5. However, these Citadel paints are only from earlier this year (not like that means anything lol).

 

It is stupidly humid here in Virginia, so I was wondering if that might cause it. I've just never had this happen before, even when it was far hotter here.

 

and yeah, its a puzzler...

[Arkhanist]

It's very unlikely multiple paints from different makers would all go bad at the same time; I've AP paints of about that age, and some citadel paints pushing 25 years old at this point that are fine with just a bit of added acrylic medium (assuming they've escaped drying out entirely, sodding 'bolter' shell pots).

 

Beading can be caused by oil on the surface; maybe they've been contaminated after priming?

 

So the next cause would be too much water; but since you've tried paint neat, it's not the thinning. High humidity can definitely cause that issue when spraying, but living in england, I've never seen it happen with brush painting! It may be a combination of high heat and very high humidity, as neither do good things to acrylic adhesion but it's a bit extreme!

 

Couple of things to try. It would be worth cleaning them again with a mild cleaner, such as dilute rubbing alcohol - too strong will damage the existing paint, so test an area first. It'd be odd to have that affect multiple minis though; perhaps airborne contamination, or oil on a common brush  previously which you've hopefully eliminated as a current cause with your brush cleaning/new brush test.

 

Next step would be to add some neat acrylic medium to your paint, such as lahmian medium or airbrush thinner (they're all pretty equivalent) - this will increase the amount of binder in your paint which should make it 'stick' a bit better. It will dilute the colour a bit, so you may need an extra (thin) layer to maintain the colour strength.

 

Assuming that doesn't work, you could try a thin coat of varnish; this is a common tactic to separate different stages of painting (oil washes from acrylics for example). A PU or lacquer varnish should stick better than acrylics, so should go on easier and provide a bit more tooth. If your next stage is a wash, gloss is better, while matt is more suited for continued brush painting. In high humidity avoid spraying matt varnish as that can cause frosting (the matting agent separates), but you should be able to brush it on. It won't affect your final finish coat of varnish.

 

Lastly, it's possible the primer alone has gone bad - that's the common paint for all of them. You could try a different primer on a fresh mini and see if that has the same problem. I've never heard of that happening, but I'm spitballing on this one!

 

Hopefully it's just the weather, and you'll be back to normal when the humidity drops eventually!

[D3L]

have you changed your paint water? or cleaned your brushes?

re: paint water, if you've got IPA/thinner or spirits in there you're going to get some weird reactions
re: brushes, if you've got residue on them, you're going to get some weird reactions

as our ol' necromundian sidekick Scabs says "always use separate pots for different chems"

[gitface]

I'm having the same problem as you.  I recently tried some spray paint the colour of my first base coat to save time.  Found that when I tried to shade over this it was doing the same thing.  I made a wash of matt medium, a bit of washing up liquid and water and then vigorously brushed a small amount to each, in hindsight probably could have just tried washing after the spray paint.  After this the shade worked fine, I'm guessing the spray I'm using has an oil in it.

 

Might be worth trying washing after applying the primer.

[Bung]

That mostly sounds that your layer of primer is too smooth.

Got that problem with th GW black spray cans too.

If the surface with the primer is too flat the color cant grip to it and will run down.

If you try a zenithal priming with white your color should stick better to the miniatur.

[Semper Fortis]

I agree with Arkhanist, it's not your paints. Since you're having the problem over both primer and paint, corrected for most variables, and it happens consistently, I would suggest an outside contaminant. I doubt it's humidity. I've lived in some really humid places like the Philippines and Florida and never had a problem with brush painting.

 

Have you started using hand lotion, changed to a different soap, adjusted any product you use on your hands?

 

Have you been using your hands to do something new (e.g. auto mechanics) where you might be picking up oil or Chemicals?

 

Has someone just started smoking around your WIP?

 

Had you started on any new medications when the problem began? There are a very few that can cause chemical excretion on the skin.

 

Were I you, my next step would be to wash my hands well. Then rewash a model. Then rewash a brush. Then get fresh water. Then wash hands well again. And only then would I paint and see if it made a difference.

 

Good luck, brother!

[Xenith]

The only time I've seen this happening is when I accidentally used a cellulose based car primer spray paint as an undercoat in my younger days. Acrylic paints really don't like to stick to it. 

 

How clean was the airbrush? Could any residual surfactant cleaning product have mixed with the primer or paints between uses?

[Razblood]

I've had something similar to this with my Vallejo primer, ended up having it too smooth and it caused the following paint to bead and flow into the crevices. Try going over the primed minis with a toothbrush before painting, just to roughen it up a bit.

[Major_Gilbear]

I agree that it may be the primer, especially if it was sprayed on.

 

I also agree with Arkhanist in that giving it a quick pass with some matt spray varnish *may* restore suffient tooth to the surface to keep the paint where it's supposed to be.

 

That said, it's sometimes better to strip a model and start again with these kinds of issues. It's frustrating, but not as much as coming back to a finished paint job six months later only to find it stuck to case or whatever (and yes, that actually happened to friend of mine once.. it was heart-breaking to see).